BoxRec

Crease wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Fury is an arsepiece that ducked out of defending his "british title" against the big punching David Price, who was knocking everyone out in 1 or 2 rounds, in favour for fighting for the Irish title against 42 year old Taxi Driver.

Well there's a bit more to it than that. And considering what way their careers have went since then, makes it an absurdly laughable comment.
Consider accusing THE MAN who defeated Wladimir Klitchsko of "ducking" a boxer who found his level against Tony Thomspon (twice) and Erkan Teper is ludicrous.


There's a bit of a backstory to the Fury vs Rogan fight - is was for the Irish Heavyweight Title (not exactly a big deal, I grant you) and it was a fight that held meaning for Tyson. Back in 2008, he applied for an Irish passport and was rejected. So that scuppered his dream of going to the Olympics and fighting for Ireland.

But it hurt Tyson much more than that, he seen it as an attack on his nationality, all the gypsies in Salford (at Paddy Doherty's caravan site) consider themselves Irish Travelers'. So gaining an Irish passport and fighting for the Irish Heavyweight Title validated his identity.

Also, the taxi driver in question was Martin Rogan - who was the original Prizefighter Champion and also accumulated the Commonwealth Title after that, so he wasn't exactly the no-hoper that some people make him out to be.

Come off it mate, he ducked Pricey shamelessly. Rogie was stitched up as well, the irish belt by the looks of it is just a gimmick but one fought for 10 rounds if i'm not mistaken... and Hennessey pulled a fast 1 at the last minute to get the bout sanctioned for 12.... with old cabbie Rogan having trained for 10. Fury being a young fitter fighter was already boxing 12 rounders.

As for Price, it's all very well having the benefit of hindsight. Are you saying Price wasn't a better opponent than Rogan? Price beat Fury easily when they met in the amateurs, and has the ability in his right hand to knock him out, he was an infinitely better and more dangerous opponent than Rogan was. There was also no rush for this "irish belt", if he really wanted it for sentiment like you allude to, then he could have fought for it any time he wanted, by the looks of it the Irish HW title is fought for on average about once every 15 years.

Regardless, even if we take the parts of your posts about Fury's Irish identity as being true, then it reinforces my point quoting HomocideHenry who alluded to the lack of British support for Tyson in comparison to Joshua being down to some kind of anti-traveller bigotry. 1 of the points i mentioned was that Tyson himself seems more keen to align himself with either an Irish identity or an Irish fanbase. So in regard to Homocide's point, i don't think you can enter into the ring wearing a green and gold robe to a chorus of the Boys of the Old Brigade (like he did when he boxed in America) and then blame the prejudice on the British public's part for his lack of a fanbase.

Throw in a clumsy, boring style, blatant ducks (price) and pretty outspoken & intolerant views behind the guise of religion, and you've hardly got the making of the next Ricky Hatton.

Fury always talks about not being in love with boxing and retirement, but I think it's just his way of taking the pressure off his own shoulders. It's like when he says "whatever, it's just a boxing match at the end of the day..." He takes the seriousness out of the task at hand. Randy couture used to do something similar, basically not beating yourself up about what could potentially happen and keeping perspective.

Horse wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Let's just be clear: Klit defeated himself by trying to follow his super cautious/boring/clinching style and not being able to adjust and take necessary risks. If Wlad manages to defeat his caution and fight more actively, Fury's chances won't be good.

Fury defeated Wladimir by being much better.

truth

he was the better fighter on the night and he'll be the better fighter in the rematch

Ricky_ wrote:Come off it mate, he ducked Pricey shamelessly. Rogie was stitched up as well, the irish belt by the looks of it is just a gimmick but one fought for 10 rounds if i'm not mistaken... and Hennessey pulled a fast 1 at the last minute to get the bout sanctioned for 12.... with old cabbie Rogan having trained for 10. Fury being a young fitter fighter was already boxing 12 rounders.

As for Price, it's all very well having the benefit of hindsight. Are you saying Price wasn't a better opponent than Rogan? Price beat Fury easily when they met in the amateurs, and has the ability in his right hand to knock him out, he was an infinitely better and more dangerous opponent than Rogan was. There was also no rush for this "irish belt", if he really wanted it for sentiment like you allude to, then he could have fought for it any time he wanted, by the looks of it the Irish HW title is fought for on average about once every 15 years.

Beat easily? Fury knocked him down. I think Fury ducking Price is pretty forgiveable considering he was 23, while Price was 28. Can you really expect young prospects to fight big heavyhanded people much nearer their prime age?

BitPlayer wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Come off it mate, he ducked Pricey shamelessly. Rogie was stitched up as well, the irish belt by the looks of it is just a gimmick but one fought for 10 rounds if i'm not mistaken... and Hennessey pulled a fast 1 at the last minute to get the bout sanctioned for 12.... with old cabbie Rogan having trained for 10. Fury being a young fitter fighter was already boxing 12 rounders.

As for Price, it's all very well having the benefit of hindsight. Are you saying Price wasn't a better opponent than Rogan? Price beat Fury easily when they met in the amateurs, and has the ability in his right hand to knock him out, he was an infinitely better and more dangerous opponent than Rogan was. There was also no rush for this "irish belt", if he really wanted it for sentiment like you allude to, then he could have fought for it any time he wanted, by the looks of it the Irish HW title is fought for on average about once every 15 years.

Beat easily? Fury knocked him down. I think Fury ducking Price is pretty forgiveable considering he was 23, while Price was 28. Can you really expect young prospects to fight big heavyhanded people much nearer their prime age?

He knocked him down but he lost wide.

It would be forgivable if he wasn't the champion. Fury's career path to Wlad us the most carefully matched cherry-pick i can recall in recent times. It's not like they simply avoided Price... he actually dropped the belts to duck him. And that was against the backdrop of trash talking him "homosexual plumber" etc...

Ricky_ wrote:He knocked him down but he lost wide.

It would be forgivable if he wasn't the champion. Fury's career path to Wlad us the most carefully matched cherry-pick i can recall in recent times. It's not like they simply avoided Price... he actually dropped the belts to duck him. And that was against the backdrop of trash talking him "homosexual plumber" etc...

Fury was ranked No. 3 in the division behind Wladimir and Povetkin when he fought and beat Wlad.

His record was amongst the best in the division, he was not a cherry-picker.

He tried to fight Haye before the Wlad fight, but he ran scared.

Horse wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:He knocked him down but he lost wide.

It would be forgivable if he wasn't the champion. Fury's career path to Wlad us the most carefully matched cherry-pick i can recall in recent times. It's not like they simply avoided Price... he actually dropped the belts to duck him. And that was against the backdrop of trash talking him "homosexual plumber" etc...

Fury was ranked No. 3 in the division behind Wladimir and Povetkin when he fought and beat Wlad.

His record was amongst the best in the division, he was not a cherry-picker.

He tried to fight Haye before the Wlad fight, but he ran scared.

Anyone can get a rank. Martin. Rest my case. Fact is, he dodged punchers and fighters his own size (Price, Ustinov).


Hammer
Chisora
Abell
Cunningham
Johnson
Vinny Maddalone
Rogan


is an incredibly poor run of opponents, none of which posed any kind of physical threat. Only Chisora posed any kind of challenge being the best boxing talent in that last, but he couldn't punch his way out a wet paper bag.

Ricky_ wrote:Anyone can get a rank. Martin. Rest my case.

Your case is pathetic.

Martin wasn't even a top 30 ranked heavyweight when he won his title.

Ricky_ wrote:

Horse wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Anyone can get a rank. Martin. Rest my case. Fact is, he dodged punchers and fighters his own size (Price, Ustinov).


Hammer
Chisora
Abell
Cunningham
Johnson
Vinny Maddalone
Rogan


is an incredibly poor run of opponents, none of which posed any kind of physical threat. Only Chisora posed any kind of challenge being the best boxing talent in that last, but he couldn't punch his way out a wet paper bag.

Cunningham was far more skilled than Chisora.

Horse wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Anyone can get a rank. Martin. Rest my case.

Your case is pathetic.

Martin wasn't even a top 30 ranked heavyweight when he won his title.

So he went from 30+ to #1. Thank you & goodnight.

BitPlayer wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

Horse wrote:

Cunningham was far more skilled than Chisora.

Steve's a cruiserweight

Would not be shocked if Haymon paid Glazkov to fake the knee and buy the title which he then sold to Joshua -martin dove vs joshua - obvious dive as martin didn't try to do anything in the fight and showed no emotion or pride after losing - John Fury said it was a WWE farce -

We know Haymon bought off Stiverne to "transfer" the title to the far more sellable Wilder - Don King actually said at the press conference for Wilder's first defense vs molina that stiverne "transferred" the title to wilder - unbelievable choice of words by King - putting the secret truth out into the open -

Ricky_ wrote:So he went from 30+ to #1. Thank you & goodnight.

No, he didn't.

Horse wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I'll gladly wear that label if I end up being wrong. I'm not going to lie and say I was impressed. I was not impressed by either, and it was a horrible fight, and painful to watch. If Fury goes on to beat Joshua, Wilder/Povetkin, Ortiz, and Parker, I will be impressed. I'm not so sure about Parker yet, but think the other guys beat him. He has a much better chance of beating Povetkin too, if by some miracle he gets past Wilder.

So if Fury clears out the entire fricking division then you will begrudgingly give him a little respect?

Yeah, that is pretty much how I see it. Fury has size that he uses very well to his advantage, and enough power to KO much smaller guys. His chin is very suspect, as he has been knocked down by much smaller guys. He is awkward, doesn't throw his punches well, and his sloppy arm punches will be laughed at by the guys I mentioned. Trust me, Fury won't clear out the division. He will retire before he has to fight someone like Joshua or Wilder. Ortiz won't even get the chance before he is 38 or 39, otherwise he would take out Fury too. Fury reminds me a little of Khan. A guy that says he wants the biggest fights, but in reality his mouth is just writing checks his body won't cash. If he beats Wlad again, I will bet he retires.

Badhusker wrote:Yeah, that is pretty much how I see it. Fury has size that he uses very well to his advantage, and enough power to KO much smaller guys. His chin is very suspect, as he has been knocked down by much smaller guys. He is awkward, doesn't throw his punches well, and his sloppy arm punches will be laughed at by the guys I mentioned. Trust me, Fury won't clear out the division. He will retire before he has to fight someone like Joshua or Wilder. Ortiz won't even get the chance before he is 38 or 39, otherwise he would take out Fury too. Fury reminds me a little of Khan. A guy that says he wants the biggest fights, but in reality his mouth is just writing checks his body won't cash. If he beats Wlad again, I will bet he retires.

Yeah, Fury and Khan, awful fighters who always duck the best opposition.

Horse wrote:

Badhusker wrote:Yeah, that is pretty much how I see it. Fury has size that he uses very well to his advantage, and enough power to KO much smaller guys. His chin is very suspect, as he has been knocked down by much smaller guys. He is awkward, doesn't throw his punches well, and his sloppy arm punches will be laughed at by the guys I mentioned. Trust me, Fury won't clear out the division. He will retire before he has to fight someone like Joshua or Wilder. Ortiz won't even get the chance before he is 38 or 39, otherwise he would take out Fury too. Fury reminds me a little of Khan. A guy that says he wants the biggest fights, but in reality his mouth is just writing checks his body won't cash. If he beats Wlad again, I will bet he retires.

Yeah, Fury and Khan, awful fighters who always duck the best opposition.

Both are over-rated loud mouths.

white guilt, pc madness, dnt help hes a gypsy. if charlie sheen was saying the same pre aids everyone would be lapping it up. hes not geten beaten byany of the current crop. because he is man. have no fear you are the man. really no fear.

@Badhusker Yup Khan fights bums like Canelo.

Also you say Fury's run is bad (despite beating an ATG) lets look at some of the others you mentioned.
Anthony Joshua
Charles Martin
Dillian Whyte
Gary Cornish
Kevin Johnson
Raphael Zumbano Love

Ortiz
Tony Thompson
Bryant Jennings
Matias Ariel Vidondo
Byron Polley
Lateef Kayode (NC because he tested postive)

How did Buster fade away?

BitPlayer wrote:@Badhusker Yup Khan fights bums like Canelo.

Also you say Fury's run is bad (despite beating an ATG) lets look at some of the others you mentioned.
Anthony Joshua
Charles Martin
Dillian Whyte
Gary Cornish
Kevin Johnson
Raphael Zumbano Love

Ortiz
Tony Thompson
Bryant Jennings
Matias Ariel Vidondo
Byron Polley
Lateef Kayode (NC because he tested postive)

I didn't say anything about Fury's run being bad. Quote me if I did, or STFU. I have an opinion about Fury not being a great champion, unlike a lot of people here. Pick apart what I said, but don't make shit up.

Badhusker wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:@Badhusker Yup Khan fights bums like Canelo.

Also you say Fury's run is bad (despite beating an ATG) lets look at some of the others you mentioned.
Anthony Joshua
Charles Martin
Dillian Whyte
Gary Cornish
Kevin Johnson
Raphael Zumbano Love

Ortiz
Tony Thompson
Bryant Jennings
Matias Ariel Vidondo
Byron Polley
Lateef Kayode (NC because he tested postive)

I didn't say anything about Fury's run being bad. Quote me if I did, or STFU. I have an opinion about Fury not being a great champion, unlike a lot of people here. Pick apart what I said, but don't make poo up.

It was Ricky_ that said that, I don't know why I thought you did. Sorry.

Ricky_ wrote:Come off it mate, he ducked Pricey shamelessly.

At the risk of repeating myself, both of them are at opposite ends of the scale. Fury is on top of the World Heavyweight Rankings, whilst I highly doubt that Price would even make the top 20 these days. Any boxing fan really has to recognize that these guys might be of different levels.

Ricky_ wrote:Rogie was stitched up as well, the irish belt by the looks of it is just a gimmick but one fought for 10 rounds if i'm not mistaken... and Hennessey pulled a fast 1 at the last minute to get the bout sanctioned for 12.... with old cabbie Rogan having trained for 10. Fury being a young fitter fighter was already boxing 12 rounders.

I'm not sure that I would describe it as a "stitch up"... Did you know that Mick Hennessy paid money to Rogan for being the reserve fighter for Fury's fight against Firtha and Pajkic? Just in case either of them backed out at the last minute and both fights were shown on live on Channel 5, so they needed a contingency plan in case something went wrong and Rogan was it.
(It also explains why Rogan didn't fight in 2011, the truth was he was getting paid on be Fury's backup)

It's hardly worth mentioning that those fights were both 12 rounders, so why would Rogan be expecting his bout against Fury to be a 10 rounder?

Ricky_ wrote:Price beat Fury easily when they met in the amateurs

The amateur game and the professional ranks are VERY different, everyone knows that.
Also, I would point out that Dillian Whyte defeated Anthony Joshua in the amateurs...

SNG wrote:How did Buster fade away?

Buster won the title and never dedicated to his career again - took the $ and basically ran - Tyson said he ran into Buster at a signing and nobody cared to get Buster's autograph - he said Buster showed no pride in losing the title to Holyfield as a fat slob who took the $ and ran - he said he felt Buster regrets how his career ended too-