BoxRec

foxdog1923 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

foxdog1923 wrote: LOL you are so funny man.

but he makes sense. power is weigh and speed. aj got the speed and weight needed for a great punch.

Then in that case Tyson who is faster and great strength is more powerful.

Thanks.. Good analysis.. Tyson wasn't nearly as big, strong, or fast as much bigger guys Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis who beat the living dog out of Mike and stopped him... Lil Mike trudged around the ring for the distance versus super slow JRazor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, and James Smith. Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield, beat Mike twice. All those guys were stopped by other boxers.. Anthony Joshua would have iced those dudes in the 1st round.. Mike had fast hands but his arms were short and his feet were slow.. Douglas danced circles around Mike and beat him up.. Douglas and Lewis generated more power with their greater height, longer arms, bigger swings, and much more weight, size, and strength behind their punches.

Anthony Joshua is even bigger and stronger than Lewis - and the only Heavyweight Champion in Fistic HIstory with a 100% KO ratio.

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:
Malik defenitly got a dive, and did it badly Perez and Takam did it much better
Wilder is not going to dive, he is not in that stage of his carreer...his team plans to make more money matching him with Fury/Klitchko/Joshua.

Povetkin's team did everything they could to drag the negotiation to the purse bid, and when bring the fight to Moscow, overpaying a lot of money. They did the same with Klitchko, by the way...nothing new

As to Wilder's team concerns regarding Russian drugtest company - who can blame them??? Ask Brown and other guys who won russians in Russia

Oh that's it? Perez and Takam are just better divers as Malik Scott?

And if Wilder get's KO it's a real KO?

Good "divers" acyually allow their opponent to hit(Takam vs Povetkin case), so it looks much naturally. It demands some amount of courage
Bad "divers" falling without being hit (Scott vs Wilder case)...pussies

You think Takam will dive against Parker too?

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: Oh that's it? Perez and Takam are just better divers as Malik Scott?

And if Wilder get's KO it's a real KO?

Good "divers" acyually allow their opponent to hit(Takam vs Povetkin case), so it looks much naturally. It demands some amount of courage
Bad "divers" falling without being hit (Scott vs Wilder case)...pussies

You think Takam will dive against Parker too?

No idea

He is in "last money collection stage" of his carreer, nobody really want him as a belt holder. I'll be surprised if he will go the distance...

Chepppaaa wrote:you have a degree, great. still you are wrong. if strength was that important, than strong man contest winnner or body builders would have a the biggest punch. just makes no sense.

mass, basicly weight in combination ith speed brings power. that is alo the reason why the higher you go up in weight, the harder they punch. thurman punches harder than uchiyama, ggg punches harder than thurman, kovalev punches harder than ggg, wilder punches harder than kovalev.

Let me explain...

When I say maximum strength it does not mean what YOU are thinking in that you have to do a lot of strength work to gain a power punch. We'll call it maximum EFFORT for now but I'll explain why I used the word strength later (even though maximum effort could be used to define strength)..

Your formula for punching power mass x speed applies more towards machine than human performance. A wrecking ball is a great mass, when swung with momentum and speed it becomes powerful and that's an example of how your formula works. Now when we look at what we are discussing which is ones power punch and apply your formula, it's not accurate.

Any movement your body makes requires muscles; lifting a finger, looking left or right, jumping, throwing, even the beating of your heart uses muscles (involuntary). Our muscles also protect us to an extent. Without muscles we are simply a mass that doesn't move at all.

Should I work on my strength to improve my power punch? No, it helps to do strength work but for power it's different. Strength athletes and body builders train in exercises based on movement patterns that concentriclly and eccentrically contract the muscles. Bodybuilders don't really do any power work, probably the odd power clean but they don't do the explosive workouts that someone like Anthony Joshua does. HEY! What better example then Anthony Joshua (who looks like a bodybuilder), he does strength work, plyometrics and some other explosive stuff, check it out on YouTube. Anyway I know a lot of people who are powerful punchers, sprinters that CANT lift heavy weights and I know a boxer who is built and squats heavy and bench presses heavy and has boxed for years but doesn't have a powerful snappy cross.

When we throw a cross for example we use muscles in our legs, core (twist pattern) and upper body right through to the upper extremities. I can go on with the physiological but primarily it narrows down to neutrons and muscles. In our infancy we are weak, for most of us, as we grow our body develops and our bones and muscles get stronger. What I'm trying to say is muscles need strength to move, we need muscles to throw a punch and when we punch our hardest we combine maximum strength and maximum speed to create power!

Thank you.

Kalan wrote: Thanks.. Good analysis.. Tyson wasn't nearly as big, strong, or fast as much bigger guys Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis who beat the living dog out of Mike and stopped him... Lil Mike trudged around the ring for the distance versus super slow JRazor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, and James Smith. Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield, beat Mike twice. All those guys were stopped by other boxers.. Anthony Joshua would have iced those dudes in the 1st round.. Mike had fast hands but his arms were short and his feet were slow.. Douglas danced circles around Mike and beat him up.. Douglas and Lewis generated more power with their greater height, longer arms, bigger swings, and much more weight, size, and strength behind their punches.

Anthony Joshua is even bigger and stronger than Lewis - and the only Heavyweight Champion in Fistic HIstory with a 100% KO ratio.

LOL you are the man. Joshua 60 fights 60 KOs, he's fought Klitschko, Wilder, Fury, Haye, Parker, Ortiz etc..

Anyway Anthony looked pissed off at Breazeale outside some building. I never seen AJ so keen. We might see a powerful knockout of Breazeale from AJ coming up.

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:
Good "divers" acyually allow their opponent to hit(Takam vs Povetkin case), so it looks much naturally. It demands some amount of courage
Bad "divers" falling without being hit (Scott vs Wilder case)...pussies

You think Takam will dive against Parker too?

No idea

He is in "last money collection stage" of his carreer, nobody really want him as a belt holder. I'll be surprised if he will go the distance...

And the "money" agrees with me http://www.oddschecker.com/boxing/josep ... kam/winner

It's 3/10 for Parker to win and 3/1 for Takam...

bigman1968 wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: You think Takam will dive against Parker too?

No idea

He is in "last money collection stage" of his carreer, nobody really want him as a belt holder. I'll be surprised if he will go the distance...

And the "money" agrees with me http://www.oddschecker.com/boxing/josep ... kam/winner

It's 3/10 for Parker to win and 3/1 for Takam...

I would be surprised if Parker would get Takam down within 8 rounds.



*edit, I thought I would only receive 3 times my money back, but it's still 4 times, which is very very generous imo, since Takam clearly proved a lot more than Parker has.

foxdog1923 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:you have a degree, great. still you are wrong. if strength was that important, than strong man contest winnner or body builders would have a the biggest punch. just makes no sense.

mass, basicly weight in combination ith speed brings power. that is alo the reason why the higher you go up in weight, the harder they punch. thurman punches harder than uchiyama, ggg punches harder than thurman, kovalev punches harder than ggg, wilder punches harder than kovalev.

Let me explain...

When I say maximum strength it does not mean what YOU are thinking in that you have to do a lot of strength work to gain a power punch. We'll call it maximum EFFORT for now but I'll explain why I used the word strength later (even though maximum effort could be used to define strength)..

Your formula for punching power mass x speed applies more towards machine than human performance. A wrecking ball is a great mass, when swung with momentum and speed it becomes powerful and that's an example of how your formula works. Now when we look at what we are discussing which is ones power punch and apply your formula, it's not accurate.

Any movement your body makes requires muscles; lifting a finger, looking left or right, jumping, throwing, even the beating of your heart uses muscles (involuntary). Our muscles also protect us to an extent. Without muscles we are simply a mass that doesn't move at all.

Should I work on my strength to improve my power punch? No, it helps to do strength work but for power it's different. Strength athletes and body builders train in exercises based on movement patterns that concentriclly and eccentrically contract the muscles. Bodybuilders don't really do any power work, probably the odd power clean but they don't do the explosive workouts that someone like Anthony Joshua does. HEY! What better example then Anthony Joshua (who looks like a bodybuilder), he does strength work, plyometrics and some other explosive stuff, check it out on YouTube. Anyway I know a lot of people who are powerful punchers, sprinters that CANT lift heavy weights and I know a boxer who is built and squats heavy and bench presses heavy and has boxed for years but doesn't have a powerful snappy cross.

When we throw a cross for example we use muscles in our legs, core (twist pattern) and upper body right through to the upper extremities. I can go on with the physiological but primarily it narrows down to neutrons and muscles. In our infancy we are weak, for most of us, as we grow our body develops and our bones and muscles get stronger. What I'm trying to say is muscles need strength to move, we need muscles to throw a punch and when we punch our hardest we combine maximum strength and maximum speed to create power!

Thank you.

Yes, and for that reason, the timing and coordination of the various muscle groups required to deliver any given punch, are far more important than brute force, and ability to lift big weights.

I remember watching a show years ago, and there was a british sprinter, called Kris Akabussi (i'm sure some british scene people will remember) - he took part in some legends of athletics event. He looked pretty out of shape, hadn't trained or competed in anything in many years, and was up against a bunch of other former athletes, some of whom had only recently retired comparatively, and looked in far better shape.

They did I think an 80 meter sprint or something, and he absolutely destroyed everyone in the field, by some margin.

My point is, that some people are gifted with certain combinations of attributes which make them do things naturally that comes very hard to others, like punch power.

Kalan wrote:

foxdog1923 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
but he makes sense. power is weigh and speed. aj got the speed and weight needed for a great punch.

Then in that case Tyson who is faster and great strength is more powerful.

Thanks.. Good analysis.. Tyson wasn't nearly as big, strong, or fast as much bigger guys Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis who beat the living dog out of Mike and stopped him... Lil Mike trudged around the ring for the distance versus super slow JRazor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, and James Smith. Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield, beat Mike twice. All those guys were stopped by other boxers.. Anthony Joshua would have iced those dudes in the 1st round.. Mike had fast hands but his arms were short and his feet were slow.. Douglas danced circles around Mike and beat him up.. Douglas and Lewis generated more power with their greater height, longer arms, bigger swings, and much more weight, size, and strength behind their punches.

Anthony Joshua is even bigger and stronger than Lewis - and the only Heavyweight Champion in Fistic HIstory with a 100% KO ratio.

Utter rubbish.

Tyson had the quickest hands of any heavyweight I've seen, he was right up there with Ali. It was his speed and combination punching which made him so devastating.

Lewis beat a completely washed up Tyson, that's a poor fight to mention.

When Joshua fights anyone as good as Ruddock, Tucker or Smith, then we will see. Right now, his best opponent was Dillian Whyte, who as far as we can see, is a domestic level fighter, Martin was an absolute scrub, he wasn't even in decent shape and came to fall over and get paid.

Holyfield was only stopped twice in a VERY long career, he was as tough as they come.

Power is the most seductive of attributes, beware.

i have to say this looks insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlzehYyfo

Frank Bruno deserves a mention.

BitPlayer wrote:

Kalan wrote:Anthony Joshua knocks guys out HUGE Heavyweights with casual ease.. He wasn't even trying to KO Undefeated Heavyweight Champion Charles Martin who was supposed have one Hell of a chin.. AJ even shrugged apologetically to his corner as if to say "WTF can I do to get rounds out of these guys?" So Joshua's got to be the best puncher so far in Heavyweight History.

The guy that applies to is Gary Cornish, and pretty much only him, a part time club fighter that took time off work to get a big payday. Most of his fights aren't even clean KO's his throws tons of big shots to break people down, and then the ref calls it off.

But who knows maybe Cornish could take prime Foreman a good few rounds,

It shows that Josh can finish as well as doing the one punch knockouts.

Chepppaaa wrote:i have to say this looks insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlzehYyfo

Yep, and that's a 220lb heavyweight. I'm a huge Lewis fan, but there's no way he hit as hard as Foreman.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: My point is, that some people are gifted with certain combinations of attributes which make them do things naturally that comes very hard to others, like punch power.

ABSOLUTELY but me and the other dude were discussing the formula for a power punch. Of course there's other factors at play such as biomechanics, genetics etc..but gifted is what every boxer in the poll was.

Chepppaaa wrote:i have to say this looks insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlzehYyfo

Apparently it was loud enough to scare the shit out of sparring partners.

foxdog1923 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: My point is, that some people are gifted with certain combinations of attributes which make them do things naturally that comes very hard to others, like punch power.

ABSOLUTELY but me and the other dude were discussing the formula for a power punch. Of course there's other factors at play such as biomechanics, genetics etc..but gifted is what every boxer in the poll was.

I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing, in the sense that the mechanics of punching are very complex, the number of small movements required to produce the punch coming from various parts of the body is very intricate. Power is generated from the pivot of the feet, the movement of the hip, the torsion of the trunk muscles, and the snap imparted by the shoulder following suit, right through to the point at which there is impact, in the stiffness of the forearm and wrist to deliver maximum force.

George Foreman.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing.

I know and I agree with you that's why I typed ABSOLUTELY because I???...you guessed it, I absolutely agree with you. Don't try to explain to me sports science in which I have a degree in, studied it for 5 years and now currently working in high performance so I can't be stuffed talking about it anymore

foxdog1923 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing.

I know and I agree with you that's why I typed ABSOLUTELY because I???...you guessed it, I absolutely agree with you. Don't try to explain to me sports science in which I have a degree in, studied it for 5 years and now currently working in high performance so I can't be stuffed talking about it anymore

Get over yourself mate, Just a tip, you're coming across as a real bore, even to people agreeing with you. We get it, you have a degree is sports science, you don't need to keep banging on about it. I've have numerous conversations previously with nutritionists, sports psychologists, and conditioning experts, during my time and not one of them came across as much of a pompous arse as you, they didn't set themselves up as people who knew everything, but people who were willing to discuss, unlike yourself.

Kalan wrote:

foxdog1923 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:
but he makes sense. power is weigh and speed. aj got the speed and weight needed for a great punch.

Then in that case Tyson who is faster and great strength is more powerful.

Thanks.. Good analysis.. Tyson wasn't nearly as big, strong, or fast as much bigger guys Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis who beat the living dog out of Mike and stopped him... Lil Mike trudged around the ring for the distance versus super slow JRazor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, and James Smith. Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield, beat Mike twice. All those guys were stopped by other boxers.. Anthony Joshua would have iced those dudes in the 1st round.. Mike had fast hands but his arms were short and his feet were slow.. Douglas danced circles around Mike and beat him up.. Douglas and Lewis generated more power with their greater height, longer arms, bigger swings, and much more weight, size, and strength behind their punches.

Anthony Joshua is even bigger and stronger than Lewis - and the only Heavyweight Champion in Fistic HIstory with a 100% KO ratio.

Did I read in there that you figure Joshua would KO every guy you mentioned? In the first round? I mean, even Martin made it to the 2nd round.

Chepppaaa wrote:i have to say this looks insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlzehYyfo

Great clip and great lesson for anyone on power punching. His whole hip and body delivers the punch, not jut his arms.

I think that uppercut that Foreman hit Frazier with, which lifted Smokin' Joe off his feet is the hardest single punch I have ever seen.

It's all the more amazing that Joe got up from it!

It's between Foreman and Shavers IMO. Also surprised that nobody voted for Sonny Liston - he had amazing power. Ron Lyle was murderous puncher too. Also Wlad and Corrie Sanders should be in this list. As for the most underrated punchers of all time, I think it's Tim Witherspoon. He had some really frightening KO's like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWxFh0msxI

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Kalan wrote:

foxdog1923 wrote: Then in that case Tyson who is faster and great strength is more powerful.

Thanks.. Good analysis.. Tyson wasn't nearly as big, strong, or fast as much bigger guys Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis who beat the living dog out of Mike and stopped him... Lil Mike trudged around the ring for the distance versus super slow JRazor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, and James Smith. Cruiserweight Evander Holyfield, beat Mike twice. All those guys were stopped by other boxers.. Anthony Joshua would have iced those dudes in the 1st round.. Mike had fast hands but his arms were short and his feet were slow.. Douglas danced circles around Mike and beat him up.. Douglas and Lewis generated more power with their greater height, longer arms, bigger swings, and much more weight, size, and strength behind their punches.

Anthony Joshua is even bigger and stronger than Lewis - and the only Heavyweight Champion in Fistic HIstory with a 100% KO ratio]

When Joshua fights anyone as good as Ruddock, Tucker or Smith, then we will see. Right now, his best opponent was Dillian Whyte, who as far as we can see, is a domestic level fighter, Martin was an absolute scrub, he wasn't even in decent shape and came to fall over and get paid.

Holyfield was only stopped twice in a VERY long career, he was as tough as they come.

You're full of it... Martin and Whyte are at least as good as super punchable Tucker, Smith, and Ruddock who went the distance with Tyson. A previous fight had an idiot referee calling a premature halt to Tyson-Ruddock... The fact is Tyson hit those super big guys (Tucker was only 223) with the kitchen sink and he couldn't hurt them... Other bigger and stronger guys could because they were stopped later on... Anyway, Anthony Joshua hit UNDEFEATED Dillian Whyte and Charles Martin and they went for the count... If he hit them real good they would have been carried out.

Boxing Writer wrote:It's between Foreman and Shavers IMO. Also surprised that nobody voted for Sonny Liston - he had amazing power. Ron Lyle was murderous puncher too. Also Wlad and Corrie Sanders should be in this list. As for the most underrated punchers of all time, I think it's Tim Witherspoon. He had some really frightening KO's like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWxFh0msxI

Foreman fought a lot of teeny weeny Heavyweights... He couldn't hurt the bigger stronger guys except for guys that a light heavyweight like Michael Spinks knocked out FIRST like washed up Gerry Cooney; who he knew was a drug addict and DONE!!! ... In his last 7 fight Foreman scored 1 KO and 1 knockdown... Tyson knocked out Alex Steward in seconds.. A year later Foreman hit him with everything and couldn't stop him. Foreman hit 211 pound Jimmy Young real good and couldn't knock him down. The feather hitting Young knocked Foreman down.