BoxRec

You are confused. The allowable limit was 15 mcg before March 1st and became 1 mcg after March 1st. It hasn't been removed yet.

runner_phob wrote:You are confused. The allowable limit was 15 mcg before March 1st and became 1 mcg after March 1st. It hasn't been removed yet.

Cases where the concentration is below 1 µg/ml and the test was taken before 1 March
2016 are compatible with an intake prior to January 2016. If the anti-doping
organization finds that the athlete could not reasonably have known or suspected that
the substance would still be present in his/her body on or after 1 January 2016, then a
finding of no fault or negligence may be made

I'm afraid you are confused, but then it is confusing so don't feel too bad!

ttornado wrote:

runner_phob wrote:You are confused. The allowable limit was 15 mcg before March 1st and became 1 mcg after March 1st. It hasn't been removed yet.

Cases where the concentration is below 1 µg/ml and the test was taken before 1 March
2016 are compatible with an intake prior to January 2016. If the anti-doping
organization finds that the athlete could not reasonably have known or suspected that
the substance would still be present in his/her body on or after 1 January 2016, then a
finding of no fault or negligence may be made

I'm afraid you are confused, but then it is confusing so don't feel too bad!

No, you are. I read quotes from WADA about 15 and 1 mcg. Those quotes have been posted in boxrec too, so you can find them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/sport ... sting.html

The memo added that rulings on cases in which tests taken before March had shown concentrations lower than 15 micrograms should be delayed while the agency’s labs established excretion times more precisely.

After March 1st, 15 mcg became 1 mcg,

Wilder and his so called heavyweight championship title - which he ha ha won by beating someone named Kertson Manswell - or was it Chris Arreola? - should be stripped - but boxing is so absurdly crooked - more like wrasslin than a real sport now - so it won't - and instead the managed american media and the boxing forums will be filled up with stories about how wonderful he is by not going to russia - which of course he never wanted to do in the first place - and how great it is that he will be able to defend his ha ha title again in a very honest place like Las Vegas again - against Kertson Manswell or someone like that again!

x2x wrote:Wilder and his so called heavyweight championship title - which he ha ha won by beating someone named Kertson Manswell - or was it Chris Arreola? - should be stripped - but boxing is so absurdly crooked - more like wrasslin than a real sport now - so it won't - and instead the managed american media and the boxing forums will be filled up with stories about how wonderful he is by not going to russia - which of course he never wanted to do in the first place - and how great it is that he will be able to defend his ha ha title again in a very honest place like Las Vegas again - against Kertson Manswell or someone like that again!

So Wilder should be stripped because Povetkin is a drug user? How does that work?

Tony1244 wrote:

So Wilder should be stripped because Povetkin is a drug user? How does that work?

Povetkin is no more a drug user than any patron of one of the US health food stores taking creatine or vitamins or something. They found some loophole, like they were searching for, and now they are pretending to be shocked and hysterical over it. Phony WBC said the fight was postponed...and then Wilder's handlers say not postponed but cancelled.

Badhusker wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

ttornado wrote: by WADA

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com ... ice-en.pdf

If you actually read what was written in that PDF file, you would have seen that Povetkin's promoter is perfectly right by what he said. This pdf makes me even more confident Povetkin would easely win on court, as expected.

The big red flag, one that no one can seem to explain, is why the 3 previous tests for Povetkin were negative, then all of a sudden one is positive. Could it be possible that a masking agent that was used didn't do its job for the most recent test? I have no idea, but the fight is cancelled, and life goes on. Hope they get Wilder a decent opponent. Can't just throw anyone in unless the WBC approves it.

I don't know exactly how the test works, but as far as I know all tests have been negative, the first, the second, the third, the fourth, all of them. There has been found 0.070ug/mI in Povetkin's blood, which is compareble to pretty much nothing. Meanwhile I still haven't seen any negative test on Wilder at all.

I heard it was found in his pee, so I assume that if he drinks a lot of water you'll find barely anything and if he's dried out (like right after a training for example), you'll find a lot of it.

In the PDF I read:

"Results management may be stayed:
a. If the concentration is between 1 and 15 µg/mL and the test was taken before 1
March 2016, given that the results of ongoing excretion studies are needed to
determine the time of the ingestion.
b. If the concentration is below 1 µg/mL and the test was taken after 1 March given
that the results of ongoing excretion studies are needed to determine the time of
the ingestion.
The following options may be followed, at the discretion of the Results Management
Authority when the results management is stayed:
i. The athlete continues serving his or her provisional suspension until the
excretion studies results are available and a decision can be taken.
ii. The provisional suspension is lifted. However, in this case, the athlete shall be informed that if it is later established based on the results of the excretion studies that he/she did take the drug on or after 1 January 2016,
(i) all the results during the period in which the provisional suspension is lifted may be cancelled and prizes returned, and
(ii) the ineligibility period ultimately imposed is likely to start on the date of the decision (with a credit for the provisional suspension already served)."

Pretty much exactly like Povetkin's promotor said.

runner_phob wrote:
No, you are. I read quotes from WADA about 15 and 1 mcg. Those quotes have been posted in boxrec too, so you can find them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/sport ... sting.html

The memo added that rulings on cases in which tests taken before March had shown concentrations lower than 15 micrograms should be delayed while the agency’s labs established excretion times more precisely.

After March 1st, 15 mcg became 1 mcg,

No you have confused the provisional suspension limit and the allowable limit.

I've been quoting directly from WADA which is the only source that matters.

foxdog1923 wrote: Look here stupid idiot that everybody here hates,

And just who the hell are you, who thinks they speak for everybody on the entire forum?
Speaking for myself, I've never even noticed you before, let alone conversed with you.
Don't presume to speak for me, or everybody else for that matter.

ttornado wrote:

Kalan wrote: NO NEED for a suspension because Povetkin's concentrations were 15 X lower than the allowable amount.

The test was on 27 April 2016, almost 2 months after the allowable limit was removed.

It's doubtful anybody would arbitrarily remove an allowable limit, especially with such capricious timing. As new substances are added to the banned PED list anyone taking a medication or prescription containing that substance needs time for it to leave his body. If you have .005 ppm of a banned substance and that is 1000 X below the allowable concentration for that substance, saying that boxer failed a drug test he would have passed with flying colors a month earlier would be capricious, ludicrous, arbitrary, and targeted at a specific athlete. I haven't heard that happened, and it wouldn't pass a legal challenge.

kaiserbill wrote:

foxdog1923 wrote: Look here stupid idiot that everybody here hates,

And just who the hell are you, who thinks they speak for everybody on the entire forum?
Speaking for myself, I've never even noticed you before, let alone conversed with you.
Don't presume to speak for me, or everybody else for that matter.

Oh most of us here anyway as you will see when look through our forum, Kalan has a lot of haters.

I've actually been on this forum longer than you have but just haven't bothered to type on here till just lately.

Anyway, you read through all the interesting discussions in the forum and you get sensitive about that? They say don't sweat the small stuff. You'll find a lot that on here anyway. Sorry you're angry lol.

Kalan wrote: I haven't heard that happened, and it wouldn't pass a legal challenge.

Except it wasn't targeted at an individual but at all athletes. Meldonium was placed on the watch list in September 2015. Everyone knew the ban was coming in then in January, an extension was made till March. Time has been given for the drug to leave the body.

MELDONIUM, CREATINE, POLITICS, AND SHARAPOVA

http://www.canetoadstuff.com/cane-toad- ... -sharapova

ttornado wrote:

Kalan wrote: I haven't heard that happened, and it wouldn't pass a legal challenge.

Except it wasn't targeted at an individual but at all athletes. Meldonium was placed on the watch list in September 2015. Everyone knew the ban was coming in then in January, an extension was made till March. Time has been given for the drug to leave the body.

I think Creatine should be banned and Meldonium shouldn't... There I much more evidence that Creatine is a PED than Meldonium, but Creatine is made by an American company and Meldonium is made by a Latvian company... Povetkin stopped using Meldonium as soon as he was informed it was going on the watch list... Substances don't disappear from your body as soon as you stop taking them. that's why there's an allowable concentration, to allow insignificant traces of the drug to pass from your system over a long period of time. Povetkin is WAY under the allowable limit so it's passing from his system pretty quickly. You don't besmirch an athlete like this if he's trying to do the right thing.

There are always small concentrations that are allowed because food, water, and beverages are sometimes contaminated with PEDs and an athlete will ingest them in a restaurant, in food he prepares himself, or visiting friends.. Generally he's going to be below allowable concentrations and test negative.. Not always.. Luis Ortiz ate meat contaminated with a steroid and was suspended.. I don't think he was at fault but how can you tell for sure? So he was suspended.. But when a guy is way below the allowed concentrations consistent with someone who stopped usage in August of last year, and something like this happens it just makes you sick.

Kalan, this whole drug testing thing and Povetkin testing positive for PEDS..........I think you have went over the deep end. Not just the crazy threads you have created, but you are way out there. Taper down on the hooch man.

"MELDONIUM, CREATINE, POLITICS, AND SHARAPOVA"

Why are Russians sucking up to the gangsters in the USSA? If the USSA criminals want to mess up their athletes they should kiss off that phony las vegas drug doctor and those phony western alphabet boxing gangs and tennis gangs and set up their own sports organizations with China like they have with BRICS.

Badhusker wrote:Kalan, this whole drug testing thing and Povetkin testing positive for PEDS..........I think you have went over the deep end. Not just the crazy threads you have created, but you are way out there. Taper down on the hooch man.

He didn't test positive IDIOT. You're insane or fking stupid or both.

Povetkin passed three drugs tests in the weeks leading up to the test which he failed on April 22nd. Something's obviously not right. His team said that it must be residual traces from when the substance was legal. That seems unlikely IMO. In any case they were told last September that the substance was going on the banned list so why take the risk and continue taking it? I feel sorry for Wilder here and I hope his team can sort a big fight for him quickly. He was on a career best pay day here and now he gets nothing. Disgusting.

Kalan wrote: I think Creatine should be banned and Meldonium shouldn't... There I much more evidence that Creatine is a PED than Meldonium, but Creatine is made by an American company and Meldonium is made by a Latvian company... Povetkin stopped using Meldonium as soon as he was informed it was going on the watch list...

A fair discussion but why are 2.2% of all athletes using meldonium.
But ultimately the athlete has to take responsibility and having this discussion after the fact won't stop WADA enforcing their well-publicised rules.

Stuarty30 wrote:Povetkin passed three drugs tests in the weeks leading up to the test which he failed on April 22nd. Something's obviously not right. His team said that it must be residual traces from when the substance was legal. That seems unlikely IMO. In any case they were told last September that the substance was going on the banned list so why take the risk and continue taking it? I feel sorry for Wilder here and I hope his team can sort a big fight for him quickly. He was on a career best pay day here and now he gets nothing. Disgusting.

If you read the Wada file you can see that Povetkin was allowed to have 15ug/ml in his body when Wilder challenged him in januari, now Povetkin isn't a cheater, so he doesn't care, now he got 0.070ug/ml left in his body around april and now Wilder and his team say to all the media Povetkin is a drugs cheat... Yea right.

asdfjkl wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Povetkin passed three drugs tests in the weeks leading up to the test which he failed on April 22nd. Something's obviously not right. His team said that it must be residual traces from when the substance was legal. That seems unlikely IMO. In any case they were told last September that the substance was going on the banned list so why take the risk and continue taking it? I feel sorry for Wilder here and I hope his team can sort a big fight for him quickly. He was on a career best pay day here and now he gets nothing. Disgusting.

If you read the Wada file you can see that Povetkin was allowed to have 15ug/ml in his body when Wilder challenged him in januari, now Povetkin isn't a cheater, so he doesn't care, now he got 0.070ug/ml left in his body around april and now Wilder and his team say to all the media Povetkin is a drugs cheat... Yea right.

So you're saying he isn't a cheat? He failed a test in April? He knew the substance was being banned away last September 15. Why should Wilder take the risk and fight a guy who's clearly been on something? Wilder is the one losing out on a career best pay day.

What no one is saying is why.

I'm not having a dig at Povetkin despite my previous comments on this matter which I cant be stuffed repeating. Im just interested in why Povetkin takes/took Meldonium.

Does anyone here PLEASE have a credible source/link/article as to why Povetkin took it?

From my understanding, Povetkin had 3 tests, 1 of which was a week earlier and they were all fine. Then another test was done a week after the initial and not long before the fight and it came back positive.

I think his team thought they had finished all drug testing so decided to use the PEDs just before the fight. He deserves everything he's getting. Get these cheats out of boxing.

Stuarty30 wrote:Povetkin passed three drugs tests in the weeks leading up to the test which he failed on April 22nd. I feel sorry for Wilder here and I hope his team can sort a big fight for him quickly. He was on a career best pay day here and now he gets nothing. Disgusting.

Povetkin passed ALL of his tests. These were piss tests. If you know ANYTHING about piss tests, depending on how hydrated you are, i.e. how clear or yellow you urinate for the piss tests gives you a variety of readings.. Sometimes they may want you to take a piss test after you've worked out extremely hard and before you gulp down a quart of water. You still can because you only need to pee a small amount for a sample. Because he has such a negligible trace about of Meldonium in his system if he's well hydrated it's not going to show up at all.. This is what happened for his so-called inconsistency. He still tested WAY below the allowable concentrations when he was a little dehydrated so he's good.

Kalan wrote: Povetkin passed ALL of his tests.

Except he didn't show negative for them all, he tested positive in April for meldonium:

. If the concentration is below 1 µg/mL and the test was taken after 1 March given
that the results of ongoing excretion studies are needed to determine the time of
the ingestion.

So if any meldonium is shown in the test it can't be 'passed'.
Further studies are still required, from what is known this is very suspicious.