BoxRec

Louis didn't fight anywhere near the low level competition Wlad did and he never lost to four also rans. I wouldn't rate Wlad over a handful of guys that never won a title.

SAADsack is a Klitschko hater who would never rate any Eastern European. Everyone fair minded fan knows Wladimir is an ATG.

Joe Louis was a great boxer but famous for the “Bum of the Month Club.” Louis fought Eddie Sims 23-21-3... Johnny Davies 3-3-0... Al McCoy 180-pounds, 16 losses... Abe Simon a big fat punching bag with 9 losses... Natie Brown 32-22-7 ... Jack Roper who had 39 losses... Jimmy Braddock was 45-23-4... Louis fought his 30th fight with Steve Ketchel, who was making his pro debut 0-0-0... Red Burman had 16 losses and weighed 188... The ONLY undefeated opponent who Louis ever fought who had 15 fights or more was Rocky Marciano. He got knocked Louis out. Joe Walcott had 11 previous losses prior to fighting Louis and was robbed in their 1st fight... and of course there’s Tony Galento, a fat tub who had 23 losses, but knocked Louis down.

Rating Wladimir Klitschko’s opponents were much better as has been said: “David Haye was a very fast, strong, powerful, 25-1 skilled boxer-puncher who certainly would be competitive with Holyfield ... Sam Peter was a undefeated 24-0 top Heavyweight Contender, and favored to beat Klitschko ... Jameel McCline was a massive 6'6" X 260 top ranked Heavyweight Contender with wins over Shannon Briggs, Michael Grant, and Lance Whitaker in his previous 3 fights ... Sultan Ibragimov was an undefeated southpaw Heavyweight Champion who beat Shannon Briggs every round. His only career loss was to Klitschko ... Alexander Povetkin was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion 26-0, and Olympic Gold Medal Winner ... Tony Thompson was a top-ranked Heavyweight Contender and 6'5" X 248lb Southpaw. He was 31-1... Chris Byrd was a 31-1 and a slick boxing Southpaw with wins over Evander Holyfield and David Tua. Bryd would go undefeated for his next 9 fights after losing to Wlad, until losing to Klitschko again, the 2nd time by KO after losing every round... Ruslan Chagaev was another undefeated southpaw Heavyweight Champion, 25-0-1, with the 1st victory ever over 7' X 320 Nicolai Valuev... Calvin Brock was an undefeated, 29-0 top Heavyweight Contender... Mariusz Wach was a 6'7" X 251 and 27-0 Top Heavyweight Contender who iced huge Kevin McBride with one shot. McBride stopped former champ Mike Tyson ...

Wladimir Klitschko had 32 fights in the 20th Century. Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis were all offered fights with Wladimir Klitschko. They all chose to fight much weaker opponents instead. WK never turned down a former Heavyweight Champion or top ranked Heavyweight Contender and he's 40 years old.... Ali, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Foreman, and Tyson ALL turned down top-ranked Heavyweight Contenders for weaker opponents... Lennonx Lewis was LOSING the fight on ALL SCORECARDS to Vitali Klitschko when he was awarded the fight on cuts. That was Lewis's only win on cuts and Vitali's only loss on cuts. Lewis chickened out on the rematch and retired when Vitali was named his mandatory challenger”

The ONLY undefeated opponent who Joe Louis ever fought who had 15 fights or more was Rocky Marciano. Louis was 37 and got knocked out. Wladimir Klitschko fought 11 opponents who were undefeated in 19 or more fights, losing one (1) to young Tyson Fury at age 40.

BoxBuzz wrote:KAlan. You say Larry was truly a great and Norton was a lackey. Why did Larry barely survive that fight with Norton? Or was that not a close fight?

By the way that last contribution had more holes than a pound of the finest Swiss cheese.

I personally disagree on that being a close fight . I feel the scorecards are responsible for everyone seeing it that way.

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson

The first 2 are clear of number 3. Hard to split but I have Louis as he won the biggest fight of his career (max rematch). Ali lost his FOTC.

Just in case you missed it, this is Kalan's all time top ten.

1. Anthony Joshua.. 2. Vitali Klitschko.. 3. Wladimir Klitschko.. 4 Lewis.. 5 Holmes.. 6. Johnson.. 7. Louis.. 8. Holyfield.. 9. Tyson.. 10. Tunney

To not have Ali in the top 10 proves the biased nature of Mr Kalan's posts.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Just in case you missed it, this is Kalan's all time top ten.

1. Anthony Joshua.. 2. Vitali Klitschko.. 3. Wladimir Klitschko.. 4 Lewis.. 5 Holmes.. 6. Johnson.. 7. Louis.. 8. Holyfield.. 9. Tyson.. 10. Tunney

To not have Ali in the top 10 proves the biased nature of Mr Kalan's posts.

Nay nay, it simply proves he is diverse in his thoughts.

stevedoc wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:

stevedoc wrote:
as much as i like holyfield he wasn't that great at heavyweight he lost 2 out of 3 to bowe while at his peak lost to moorer was rocked hard by cooper fought 2 OAP's in holmes and foreman and his best wins were against a faded Tyson i don't think Holyfield was ever the MAN at heavyweight where as Wlad was champ for 10 years he may not of fought great fighters but he was dominate for a long time .

Being a champ for a long time doesn't mean much if the competition sucks. Holyfield best wins were much, much better. Klitschko had three embarrassing losses that were much worse than losing to Moorer. Klitischko is nowhere near Holyfield's league.

so i presume you don't rate louis that high then as main claim is a long reign or are you using double standards !

I rate him as #2 of all time. The reason that I rate him highly has nothing to do with how long he held the title or the number of defenses. If we are going by title defenses than Tommy Burns should be close to the the top.

Louis had wins over Schmeling, Max Baer and Jersey Joe Walcott. Those are biggest wins. doesn't compare to Ali's best (Liston, Foreman, Frazier, ) is better than almost any one else. Beat several fighters who while not great were very good; Buddy Baer, Bob Pastor, Lou Nova etc. Not as good as Ali's second tier victims (Patterson, Norton Quarry, Terrell, Ellis,Bonavena, etc.) but better than almost everyone elses.

He did lose to Schmeling, and had a few close calls in his prime; that didn't happen to Ali but did happen to more often with almost everyone else.

Don't care about Louis wins over Johnny Paycheck, Red Burman etc. Do care about his major wins.
Same with Ali.
Don't care about Klitschko's wins over all of the tomato cans. I would care about his major wins but he doesn't have any.

BoxBuzz wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Just in case you missed it, this is Kalan's all time top ten.

1. Anthony Joshua.. 2. Vitali Klitschko.. 3. Wladimir Klitschko.. 4 Lewis.. 5 Holmes.. 6. Johnson.. 7. Louis.. 8. Holyfield.. 9. Tyson.. 10. Tunney

To not have Ali in the top 10 proves the biased nature of Mr Kalan's posts.

Nay nay, it simply proves he is diverse in his thoughts.

Either that, or he's full of sh1t.

My Top ten

Ali
Louis
Johnson
Holmes
Foreman
Holyfield
Lewis
Marciano
Frazier
Tyson

cfang wrote:My Top ten

Ali
Louis
Johnson
Holmes
Foreman
Holyfield
Lewis
Marciano
Frazier
Tyson

Good list, only issue I'd have is Marciano over Frazier. I think they're a tier apart.

Louis
Ali
Johnson
Dempsey
Holmes
Tyson
Marciano
Lewis
Frazier
Wladimir Klitschko

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Just in case you missed it, this is Kalan's all time top ten.

1. Anthony Joshua.. 2. Vitali Klitschko.. 3. Wladimir Klitschko.. 4 Lewis.. 5 Holmes.. 6. Johnson.. 7. Louis.. 8. Holyfield.. 9. Tyson.. 10. Tunney

To not have Ali in the top 10 proves the biased nature of Mr Kalan's posts.

Nay nay, it simply proves he is diverse in his thoughts.

Either that, or he's full of sh1t.

That's a form of diversity. Not everybody can lay claim to that.

BoxBuzz wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

Nay nay, it simply proves he is diverse in his thoughts.

Either that, or he's full of sh1t.

That's a form of diversity. Not everybody can lay claim to that.

Indeed Kalan is a member of a minority, we should respect him........

A government program is in order. With the proper weekly check mailed directly to his home, and asking him to do little if anything for extended periods of time, he will eventually show improvement.

BoxBuzz wrote:A government program is in order. With the proper weekly check mailed directly to his home, and asking him to do little if anything for extended periods of time, he will eventually show improvement.

That would free up time to spend with his Ali dartboard.

Ali was a great Heavyweight Champion... Many great fighters are not in the top 10... Ali would have beaten Marciano... Historically "experts" had Ali losing that Rocky... They did an ATG Heavyweight Computer Boxoff Series in the 1960's and had Jim Jeffries beating Ali, but losing to Marciano who he would outweigh by 40 pounds... The series went exactly the way I predicted it would with Marciano Vs Dempsey in the finals... It was old white guys who never boxed who were doing the data input -- so you can kind of read their mind like an opponent. They're pretty simple, like some of you idiots.

Kalan wrote:Ali was a great Heavyweight Champion... Many great fighters are not in the top 10... Ali would have beaten Marciano... Historically "experts" had Ali losing that Rocky... They did an ATG Heavyweight Computer Boxoff Series in the 1960's and had Jim Jeffries beating Ali, but losing to Marciano who he would outweigh by 40 pounds... The series went exactly the way I predicted it would with Marciano Vs Dempsey in the finals... It was old white guys who never boxed who were doing the data input -- so you can kind of read their mind like an opponent. They're pretty simple, like some of you idiots.

Mastering the obvious is a good first step.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Don't care about Klitschko's wins over all of the tomato cans. I would care about his major wins but he doesn't have any.

Who would he have had to beat to have major wins in your opinion?

Kalan wrote:some of you idiots.

How very polite of you.

SteveO wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Don't care about Klitschko's wins over all of the tomato cans. I would care about his major wins but he doesn't have any.

Who would he have had to beat to have major wins in your opinion?

Lennox Lewis would be the obvious one.

I voted Ali. But Louis is a great pick. I don't think Wilt could have beaten Scott LeDoux.

Regarding Joshua, ask us again in a few years.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Just in case you missed it, this is Kalan's all time top ten.

1. Anthony Joshua.. 2. Vitali Klitschko.. 3. Wladimir Klitschko.. 4 Lewis.. 5 Holmes.. 6. Johnson.. 7. Louis.. 8. Holyfield.. 9. Tyson.. 10. Tunney

To not have Ali in the top 10 proves the biased nature of Mr Kalan's posts.

Where's Chamberlain?

All you need to know when comparing Wladimir's opponents with Louis's opponents.... International competition was very light in the 30's and 40's.

Louis fought Eddie Sims 23-21-3... Johnny Davies 3-3-0... Al McCoy 180-pounds, 16 losses... Abe Simon a big and fat with 9 losses... Natie Brown 32-22-7 ... Jack Roper who had 39 losses... Jimmy Braddock was 45-23-4... Louis fought his 30th fight with Steve Ketchel, who was making his pro debut 0-0-0... Red Burman had 16 losses and weighed 188... The ONLY undefeated opponent who Louis ever fought who had 15 fights or more was Rocky Marciano. Louis got knocked out in that one... Joe Walcott had 11 previous losses prior to fighting Louis and was robbed in their 1st fight... and of course there’s Tony Galento, a fat tub who had 23 losses, but knocked Louis down.

Wladimir Klitschko’s opponents: “David Haye was a very fast, strong, powerful, 25-1 and a holder of World Titles in 2-Divisions ... Sam Peter was a undefeated 24-0 top Heavyweight Contender, and favored to beat Klitschko ... Jameel McCline was a massive 6'6" X 260 top ranked Heavyweight Contender with wins over Shannon Briggs, Michael Grant, and Lance Whitaker in his previous 3 fights ... Sultan Ibragimov was an undefeated southpaw Heavyweight Champion who beat Shannon Briggs every round. His only career loss was to Klitschko ... Alexander Povetkin was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion 26-0, and Olympic Gold Medal Winner ... Tony Thompson was a top-ranked Heavyweight Contender and 6'5" X 248lb Southpaw. He was 31-1... Chris Byrd was a 31-1 and a slick boxing Southpaw with wins over Evander Holyfield and David Tua. Bryd would go undefeated for his next 9 fights after losing to Wlad, until losing to Klitschko again, the 2nd time by KO after losing every round... Ruslan Chagaev was another undefeated southpaw Heavyweight Champion, 25-0-1, with the 1st victory ever over 7' X 320 Nicolai Valuev... Calvin Brock was an undefeated, 29-0 top Heavyweight Contender... Mariusz Wach was a 6'7" X 251 and 27-0 Top Heavyweight Contender who iced huge Kevin McBride with one shot. McBride stopped former champ Mike Tyson ... Wladimir also fought 11 undefeated opponents... Louis fought 1.

Of course. I mean, if you can't rely on win/loss records in boxing, what in life can you rely on?