BoxRec

gp. wrote:

Kalan wrote:A great many people KNEW Chamberlain would knock Ali COLD... Including Cus D'Amato and Ali... Cus said, "Chamberlain is so big, tall, strong, athletically gifted and quick, and his reach is so unbelievable...that when he hit's Ali, it's be LIGHTS OUT!!! We might all go home the first time Ali sticks a tentative jab out there -- because any counter-puncher with Chamberlain's reach, power, and speed, is going to nail Ali.. and even If he didn't put Ali out cold with his right hand, his chin will be right there for Chamberlain's follow up left hook or uppercut -- which may even be harder."

That's why Ali wouldn't sign the negotiated deal when Wilt Chamberlain kept begging for his signature on the bottom like... Ali couldn't and wouldn't even give ANYONE a guesstimate of WHEN he would sign the contract. Finally a formal contract signing was set up, Ali wanted no media because he knew he wasn't going to sign again... Ali and Chamberlain's team's both flew in for the signing -- but Ali wouldn't sign.

Wilt was very frustrated because Ali didn't want to fight him like he bragged he would. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Did Cus D'Amato tell you that when you met him? It's funny how he talked like a tabloid newspaper.

Back in the 70s I too met Cus; he was with the Count from Sesame Street, who was at the time acting as Big Bird's manager when he was contemplating a move in to boxing.

Both of them agreed that people with demonstrable boxing experience were the ones that Ali tended to have problems with - it's a link, as you will see if you do your research, that in all Ali's losses the opponent had boxed before, sometimes several times. That's why even Bird, who at over eight feet dwarfed Wilt, was determined to fight at least a couple of hopeless stiffs before attempting to take on Ali. The Count of course was happy to take whatever came as long as he felt there was a good chance of a KO for him to count over which explains why he never really made much of a showing as a manager in the boxing world. I think his only other client was Karriem Respress http://boxrec.com/boxer/58874.

NO they DID NOT agree... Leon Spinks had 7 fights when he beat Ali, and Leon never beat another top ranked heavyweight in his LIFE!!!... Gerrie Coatzee, who was a terrible boxer, knocked Spinks out in the first round when Spinks had more experience ... Ken Norton had experience.. He experienced getting knocked cold by 188-pound Jose Garcia---who had 12 wins at the time---and it happened before Norton beat Ali up and shattered his jaw ... Joe Frazier was extremely hittable. Smokin' wasn't much of a boxer. Joe was clubbed out by a guy who was bigger and stronger than Ali, but who couldn't box al all ... So experience and cleverness in Boxing wasn't a requirement for beating Ali... Frazier took everything Ali threw and beat Ali down with left hooks... The only master boxer who beat Ali was Larry Holmes... Holmes was the only guy Ali fought, who could box well, and who also matched Ali in size... Ali had 20 to 40 pounds on other decent boxers: Doug Jones, Floyd Patterson, Jimmy Ellis, Jimmy Young, and Bob Foster were fair boxers... They just weren't big and strong like Holmes.

Kalan wrote:

gp. wrote:

Kalan wrote:A great many people KNEW Chamberlain would knock Ali COLD... Including Cus D'Amato and Ali... Cus said, "Chamberlain is so big, tall, strong, athletically gifted and quick, and his reach is so unbelievable...that when he hit's Ali, it's be LIGHTS OUT!!! We might all go home the first time Ali sticks a tentative jab out there -- because any counter-puncher with Chamberlain's reach, power, and speed, is going to nail Ali.. and even If he didn't put Ali out cold with his right hand, his chin will be right there for Chamberlain's follow up left hook or uppercut -- which may even be harder."

That's why Ali wouldn't sign the negotiated deal when Wilt Chamberlain kept begging for his signature on the bottom like... Ali couldn't and wouldn't even give ANYONE a guesstimate of WHEN he would sign the contract. Finally a formal contract signing was set up, Ali wanted no media because he knew he wasn't going to sign again... Ali and Chamberlain's team's both flew in for the signing -- but Ali wouldn't sign.

Wilt was very frustrated because Ali didn't want to fight him like he bragged he would. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Did Cus D'Amato tell you that when you met him? It's funny how he talked like a tabloid newspaper.

Back in the 70s I too met Cus; he was with the Count from Sesame Street, who was at the time acting as Big Bird's manager when he was contemplating a move in to boxing.

Both of them agreed that people with demonstrable boxing experience were the ones that Ali tended to have problems with - it's a link, as you will see if you do your research, that in all Ali's losses the opponent had boxed before, sometimes several times. That's why even Bird, who at over eight feet dwarfed Wilt, was determined to fight at least a couple of hopeless stiffs before attempting to take on Ali. The Count of course was happy to take whatever came as long as he felt there was a good chance of a KO for him to count over which explains why he never really made much of a showing as a manager in the boxing world. I think his only other client was Karriem Respress http://boxrec.com/boxer/58874.

NO they DID NOT agree... Leon Spinks had 7 fights when he beat Ali, and Leon never beat another top ranked heavyweight in his LIFE!!!... Gerrie Coatzee, who was a terrible boxer, knocked Spinks out in the first round when Spinks had more experience ... Ken Norton had experience.. He experienced getting knocked cold by 188-pound Jose Garcia---who had 12 wins at the time---and it happened before Norton beat Ali up and shattered his jaw ... Joe Frazier was extremely hittable. Smokin' wasn't much of a boxer. Joe was clubbed out by a guy who was bigger and stronger than Ali, but who couldn't box al all ... So experience and cleverness in Boxing wasn't a requirement for beating Ali... Frazier took everything Ali threw and beat Ali down with left hooks... The only master boxer who beat Ali was Larry Holmes... Holmes was the only guy Ali fought, who could box well, and who also matched Ali in size... Ali had 20 to 40 pounds on other decent boxers: Doug Jones, Floyd Patterson, Jimmy Ellis, Jimmy Young, and Bob Foster were fair boxers... They just weren't big and strong like Holmes.

So? You're not showing one case where someone who had never set foot in a boxing ring beat Ali. Cus could see that; the Count from Sesame Street could see that. It takes great minds like theirs or mine to initially make that connection; but I'd have thought that once it was pointed out to you you'd be able to see it too.

I'll go further. I can't think of a single case in the history of boxing where someone who wasn't a boxer and had never done any boxing has won a world title - in fact pretty much every world title fight in history has been between two boxers, if you exclude Joe Bugner. I've done a hell of a lot of research and talked to some great names in the sport, and we all agree that this is a breakthrough new discovery that might change the face of boxing forever.

You've never demonstrated you have one with any of your posts.

gp. wrote:

Kalan wrote:

gp. wrote:

Did Cus D'Amato tell you that when you met him? It's funny how he talked like a tabloid newspaper.

Back in the 70s I too met Cus; he was with the Count from Sesame Street, who was at the time acting as Big Bird's manager when he was contemplating a move in to boxing.

Both of them agreed that people with demonstrable boxing experience were the ones that Ali tended to have problems with - it's a link, as you will see if you do your research, that in all Ali's losses the opponent had boxed before, sometimes several times. That's why even Bird, who at over eight feet dwarfed Wilt, was determined to fight at least a couple of hopeless stiffs before attempting to take on Ali. The Count of course was happy to take whatever came as long as he felt there was a good chance of a KO for him to count over which explains why he never really made much of a showing as a manager in the boxing world. I think his only other client was Karriem Respress http://boxrec.com/boxer/58874.

NO they DID NOT agree... Leon Spinks had 7 fights when he beat Ali, and Leon never beat another top ranked heavyweight in his LIFE!!!... Gerrie Coatzee, who was a terrible boxer, knocked Spinks out in the first round when Spinks had more experience ... Ken Norton had experience.. He experienced getting knocked cold by 188-pound Jose Garcia---who had 12 wins at the time---and it happened before Norton beat Ali up and shattered his jaw ... Joe Frazier was extremely hittable. Smokin' wasn't much of a boxer. Joe was clubbed out by a guy who was bigger and stronger than Ali, but who couldn't box al all ... So experience and cleverness in Boxing wasn't a requirement for beating Ali... Frazier took everything Ali threw and beat Ali down with left hooks... The only master boxer who beat Ali was Larry Holmes... Holmes was the only guy Ali fought, who could box well, and who also matched Ali in size... Ali had 20 to 40 pounds on other decent boxers: Doug Jones, Floyd Patterson, Jimmy Ellis, Jimmy Young, and Bob Foster were fair boxers... They just weren't big and strong like Holmes.

So? You're not showing one case where someone who had never set foot in a boxing ring beat Ali. Cus could see that; the Count from Sesame Street could see that. It takes great minds like theirs or mine to initially make that connection; but I'd have thought that once it was pointed out to you you'd be able to see it too.

I'll go further. I can't think of a single case in the history of boxing where someone who wasn't a boxer and had never done any boxing has won a world title - in fact pretty much every world title fight in history has been between two boxers, if you exclude Joe Bugner. I've done a hell of a lot of research and talked to some great names in the sport, and we all agree that this is a breakthrough new discovery that might change the face of boxing forever.

That's why Chamberlain was anxious to make history... He's the only human being on the planet who most people knew instinctively would be a tremendous opponent for Ali... Because of Chamberlain's unreal athletic skills that allowed him to dominate the NBA statistically... Chamberlain would have crushed Ali and openly challenged Ali for the Heavyweight Championship... He was NOT ALLOWED into a ring with Ali because Ali refused to sign the contract... That proves Professional Boxing is a BUSINESS and NOT a sport... If somebody can BEAT you - you can avoid them for YEARS... or NEVER have to face them if you DON'T WANT TO... Patterson.. Ali.. Leonard.. Canelo.. Saunders.. Jacobs.. Stevenson.. and other boxers have proved this point over and over again.

Kalan wrote:
.. He's the only human being on the planet who most people knew instinctively would be a tremendous opponent for Ali... .

No, MOST people didn't instinctively know this........But SOME folks imagined it. You were one of them. I wasn't drinking the kool aide even then. Neither apparently was Wilt himself....or Wilt's dad. Sometimes you seem like a no nonsense sort, so how come a P.T. Barnum moment like this sent you swooning?

You don't have to answer.

I'd say sober up, and get the memo that this was all "dog and pony" on Wilt's end.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:
.. He's the only human being on the planet who most people knew instinctively would be a tremendous opponent for Ali... .

No. They knew Joe Frazier would be a tremendous opponent for Ali.

How many more months do you all intend to debate this silly attention seeking troll? I'll come back when you're done. In the meantime I'll amuse myself with the mental image of how badly a Gerrie Coetzee or Leon Spinks would brutalise Wilt Chamberlain.

Tuan_Jim wrote:How many more months do you all intend to debate this silly attention seeking troll? I'll come back when you're done. In the meantime I'll amuse myself with the mental image of how badly a Gerrie Coetzee or Leon Spinks would brutalise Wilt Chamberlain.

If you don't like it, don't post.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:How many more months do you all intend to debate this silly attention seeking troll? I'll come back when you're done. In the meantime I'll amuse myself with the mental image of how badly a Gerrie Coetzee or Leon Spinks would brutalise Wilt Chamberlain.

If you don't like it, don't post.

Is that why you didn't post in the REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS? thread?

Tuan_Jim wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:How many more months do you all intend to debate this silly attention seeking troll? I'll come back when you're done. In the meantime I'll amuse myself with the mental image of how badly a Gerrie Coetzee or Leon Spinks would brutalise Wilt Chamberlain.

If you don't like it, don't post.

Is that why you didn't post in the REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS? thread?

Why don't you tell me your previous username?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: If you don't like it, don't post.

Is that why you didn't post in the REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS? thread?

Why don't you tell me your previous username?

I have numerous! In fact if you can find out the 10 or so guys who used to post here in the year 2001 with Sir John Shep, when Boxrec was literally one single small general forum, and you could post under guest, and the late great Tomato Can was king, and robsteth was the proto troll (better material than anything Kalan even with Divine Inspiration could ever dream of), and John Shep enjoyed my posts and invited me to a Jawaid Khaliq fight, and most of the boxer's records were incomplete, and clicking on many of the names would link to crude looking records on outside websites, and we were basically all buried in ooze typing in the ultra violet light, ye shall see me at work. . . . No one's been here longer than Tuan_Jim (literally no one except the boss), so show some respect, scum!

Tuan_Jim wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
Is that why you didn't post in the REMEMBER WHEN RIDDICK BOWE SIGNED TO FIGHT LENNOX LEWIS? thread?

Why don't you tell me your previous username?

I have numerous! In fact if you can find out the 10 or so guys who used to post here in the year 2001 with Sir John Shep, when Boxrec was literally one single small general forum, and you could post under guest, and the late great Tomato Can was king, and robsteth was the proto troll (better material than anything Kalan even with Divine Inspiration could ever dream of), and John Shep enjoyed my posts and invited me to a Jawaid Khaliq fight, and most of the boxer's records were incomplete, and clicking on many of the names would link to crude looking records on outside websites, and we were basically all buried in ooze typing in the ultra violet light, ye shall see me at work. . . . No one's been here longer than Tuan_Jim (literally no one except the boss), so show some respect, scum!

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:
.. He's the only human being on the planet who most people knew instinctively would be a tremendous opponent for Ali... .

No. They knew Joe Frazier would be a tremendous opponent for Ali.

Frazier was a tremendous opponent for Ali---but an incredibly weak opponent for Foreman... It's styles baby... Chamberlain the only human being on the planet who most people knew instinctively would be a tremendous opponent for Ali -- who was NOT a professional boxer... I suppose a lot of other people would have been, obviously there's billions of people out there -- but nobody knew about them... Everybody knew about Wilt because they saw his exploits on a Basketball court.. He'd outmaneuver everyone for a rebound or fake them out in the paint when doing one of his deceptive maneuvers and finger rolls.

You need to be clever to score points in Basketball as in Boxing... but you had to outwit more than one defender at a time if you were Wilt... With his natural athletic gifts and intelligence Cus D'Amato was sold completely on Chamberlain... He's also the guy who also spotted Tyson and Patterson -- and told them they would be Heavyweight Champions of the World. They were at ages 20 and 21.

Tuan_Jim wrote:I have numerous! In fact if you can find out the 10 or so guys who used to post here in the year 2001 with Sir John Shep, when Boxrec was literally one single small general forum, and you could post under guest, and the late great Tomato Can was king, and robsteth was the proto troll (better material than anything Kalan even with Divine Inspiration could ever dream of), and John Shep enjoyed my posts and invited me to a Jawaid Khaliq fight, and most of the boxer's records were incomplete, and clicking on many of the names would link to crude looking records on outside websites, and we were basically all buried in ooze typing in the ultra violet light, ye shall see me at work. . . . No one's been here longer than Tuan_Jim (literally no one except the boss), so show some respect, scum!

If you've been on here all that time, I'm surprised you haven't learnt some manners.

Tuan_Jim wrote:How many more months do you all intend to debate this silly attention seeking troll? I'll come back when you're done. In the meantime I'll amuse myself with the mental image of how badly a Gerrie Coetzee or Leon Spinks would brutalise Wilt Chamberlain.

I could keep it up forever.

If he gets tired of arguing about what the Count off Sesame Street said about Wilt, I'll bring in the opinions of 1930s comedy duo Olsen and Johnson and see what he thinks about them.

Kalan wrote:
You need to be clever to score points in Basketball as in Boxing... but you had to outwit more than one defender at a time if you were Wilt... .

So being marked by two men in basketball directly translates to boxing skills? Can you explain this more, please? And while you're at it, most football teams double or triple mark Lionel Messi, so I assume he could beat any boxer of his size simply because of this? Or does your logic only apply to basketball?

They say styles make fights.
Would you agree that maybe Floyd Patterson would have had a better chance at defeating Wilt Chamberlain for the Heavyweight title in either 1959 or 1961 then say Muhammad Ali would have had in 1967 or 1971 ?

Check out the link to this photo from August 1962
at the Highland Mills training camp in New York ,when Floyd Patterson was getting ready to fight Sonny Liston.
( be sure to click on the photo to enlarge it)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOW-FLOYD-PATTE ... 2135810198

The thing that's striking about that photo is Chambelain's hands and forearms are literally 3 X as big as Patterson's... where his torso was probably not that much bigger than Sonny Liston's.. Wilt had the most amazing body.. He was all arms, legs, and shoulders.

Personally (IMOP)I think Floyd Patterson may actually had had a more difficult style for Chamberlain.
He could have 'gotten small" and fought in a crouch dam near the canvas,
(Chamberlain would have had to punch straight down toward his own knee caps almost,taking away most of the pwoer from them presumably)
then Patterson would leap out of the crouch and delivered some leaping gazelle punches to either
Wilt Chamberlains right lower ribs or liver,possibly cracking some ribs early and sending some bone splinters and
taking away Chamberlain's desire to deliver "the Ax",
then when Wilt Chamberlain is in obvious pain he maybe would have lowered his guard
and bent forweard at an angle exposing his right mandible to another Leaping Gazelle punch,
in which Patterson puts all of his body weight into. thereby KO The Big Dipper.
What do you say to that senario ?

What I say is this... That if you're a fairly tall Heavyweight i.e. 6'4" who's ever boxed with Lightweights, Welterweights, Middleweights, and Light Heavyweights you know Light Heavyweights can't reach you if you have a great jab, great right hand, great feet, and great defense... It's ridiculous unless they're 6'2" tall like Michael Spinks and put on 35 pounds -- at which point they're no longer a Light Heavyweight are they??? ... But you can still beat the living crap out of them, even if they're 212 ... as Mike Tyson proved when he made a minute-man out of Spinks... "The AX" ended it because Mike hit like a Heavyweight

So then next after the LHW you're boxing with a Middleweight... That's even more ridiculous because they stay 5 feet away from you and can't possibly hit you with anything... Any time they get close you crack a heavy jab or straight right into their chest and they (which they might even duck into one of your rights to the body if you're a good feinter and get accidentally knocked out) so it's dangerous for them to even be in the ring with you because an AX shot to the body might clip them on the chin if they misjudge the punch (which every boxer in the world can do)

So then next you're boxing with a Welterweight... That makes no sense at all but they want to give you light hitting "speed work" so you say "okay, speed work, let's do it" ... So you tap them with a blizzard of speedy jabs and an occasional combination which you're extremely careful to throw very softly sacrificing power for speed... At which point they're embarrassed if anybody is watching---and they load up on big shots trying to clock you... And you don't take super kindly to this bravado -- so when they duck low below your waist you put a little juice on a hook to the short-ribs.. That's not going to give them a brain injury.. But down he go like he's been shot, and after a minute of gasping say.. "Oh man, you ripped that one.. Speed work dude, I'm not a Heavyweight."

So then you're boxing with a Lightweight... This is sheer stupidity by both of you, but his trainer and your trainer want you do have the work.. Your trainer says.. "Just work easy and sharpen up your speed and we're work a few light rounds with this little guy" -- and you nod rather than say "Yeah, work easy with a Lightweight. Like WTF do you think I am, stupid?" ... So the Lightweight bounces out of his corners and wants to do a glove touch to start... Great idea, lets touch gloves. We're all friends here right? ... So you're giving the guy space and you're not throwing anything... But he's doing his footwork and feints with his fancy feet, and ducking and dodging his head around and he's not throwing either.. So his trainer says, "Are we going to have a few punches guys?" ... So he throws a 1-2 that barely reaches your gloves and his trainer says "good combo" You want to bust out laughing but this is serious business.. You pop him with a few light jabs at his guard that wouldn't hurt a flea but he goes flying back like he was stabbed with a telephone pole.. So the whole round is no runs hits or errors.. except you crack him in the face with jabs whenever he gets close enough.. After a few more rounds like this -- and I think it's good to spar with somebody rather than nobody, don't get me wrong -- but they've had enough.. You've hit him 40 times in the dance session and he hasn't hit you with a single clean shot... and you hear his trainer say, "Really good work. That was pretty even sparring work with a guy who outweighs you by 100 pounds." ... You stifle another guffaw... But these are the goings on when guys of different weights collide in sparring... If it's serious it's Patterson versus Liston.

Remember Dick Tiger versus Bob Foster???? ... Tiger was iced... Then you had Bob Foster versus Joe Frazier remember that??? ... Foster was iced... Then there was Joe Frazier versus George Foreman... Frazier's life was saved by the referee... Now, it works a lot differently with guys who can't punch as hard as those 4 can -- but those 4 guys are a representation to what really happens when you don't fight a fella your size -- and he can hit real good... Now if a guy can't hit, he's not going to KO a Middleweight if he has 70 pounds on him... If he can he'll kill him.

Wait a minute

Haye beat Valuev

Sharkey beat Carnera (in their only legit fight, not that second gift wrapped affair)

Louis Beat Carnera pretty easily


Floyd Mayweather VS Diego Corrales
Shane Mosley VS Oscar De La Hoya 1
Nate Campbell VS Ali Funeka
Ray Leonard VS Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran VS Iran Barkley


and while we're on the subject.....whaddya think of this young turk's take on jabbin' the tree top terrors?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAta8NSTc6Q

Kalan wrote:What I say is this... That if you're a fairly tall Heavyweight i.e. 6'4" who's ever boxed with Lightweights, Welterweights, Middleweights, and Light Heavyweights you know Light Heavyweights can't reach you if you have a great jab, great right hand, great feet, and great defense... It's ridiculous unless they're 6'2" tall like Michael Spinks and put on 35 pounds -- at which point they're no longer a Light Heavyweight are they??? ... But you can still beat the living crap out of them, even if they're 212 ... as Mike Tyson proved when he made a minute-man out of Spinks... "The AX" ended it because Mike hit like a Heavyweight

So then next after the LHW you're boxing with a Middleweight... That's even more ridiculous because they stay 5 feet away from you and can't possibly hit you with anything... Any time they get close you crack a heavy jab or straight right into their chest and they (which they might even duck into one of your rights to the body if you're a good feinter and get accidentally knocked out) so it's dangerous for them to even be in the ring with you because an AX shot to the body might clip them on the chin if they misjudge the punch (which every boxer in the world can do)

So then next you're boxing with a Welterweight... That makes no sense at all but they want to give you light hitting "speed work" so you say "okay, speed work, let's do it" ... So you tap them with a blizzard of speedy jabs and an occasional combination which you're extremely careful to throw very softly sacrificing power for speed... At which point they're embarrassed if anybody is watching---and they load up on big shots trying to clock you... And you don't take super kindly to this bravado -- so when they duck low below your waist you put a little juice on a hook to the short-ribs.. That's not going to give them a brain injury.. But down he go like he's been shot, and after a minute of gasping say.. "Oh man, you ripped that one.. Speed work dude, I'm not a Heavyweight."

So then you're boxing with a Lightweight... This is sheer stupidity by both of you, but his trainer and your trainer want you do have the work.. Your trainer says.. "Just work easy and sharpen up your speed and we're work a few light rounds with this little guy" -- and you nod rather than say "Yeah, work easy with a Lightweight. Like WTF do you think I am, stupid?" ... So the Lightweight bounces out of his corners and wants to do a glove touch to start... Great idea, lets touch gloves. We're all friends here right? ... So you're giving the guy space and you're not throwing anything... But he's doing his footwork and feints with his fancy feet, and ducking and dodging his head around and he's not throwing either.. So his trainer says, "Are we going to have a few punches guys?" ... So he throws a 1-2 that barely reaches your gloves and his trainer says "good combo" You want to bust out laughing but this is serious business.. You pop him with a few light jabs at his guard that wouldn't hurt a flea but he goes flying back like he was stabbed with a telephone pole.. So the whole round is no runs hits or errors.. except you crack him in the face with jabs whenever he gets close enough.. After a few more rounds like this -- and I think it's good to spar with somebody rather than nobody, don't get me wrong -- but they've had enough.. You've hit him 40 times in the dance session and he hasn't hit you with a single clean shot... and you hear his trainer say, "Really good work. That was pretty even sparring work with a guy who outweighs you by 100 pounds." ... You stifle another guffaw... But these are the goings on when guys of different weights collide in sparring... If it's serious it's Patterson versus Liston.

Remember Dick Tiger versus Bob Foster???? ... Tiger was iced... Then you had Bob Foster versus Joe Frazier remember that??? ... Foster was iced... Then there was Joe Frazier versus George Foreman... Frazier's life was saved by the referee... Now, it works a lot differently with guys who can't punch as hard as those 4 can -- but those 4 guys are a representation to what really happens when you don't fight a fella your size -- and he can hit real good... Now if a guy can't hit, he's not going to KO a Middleweight if he has 70 pounds on him... If he can he'll kill him.

All the long winded sentences in the world don't make Wilt Chamberlain a boxer, and they never will.

But 6 months.. Wilt Chamberlain's work ethic.. Great technical trainers like Cus D'Amato, Eddie Futch, George Benton, Charley Burley, Archie Moore, and other folks who wanted to help Wilt get up to speed.. It's amazing the number of trainers who wanted to help Chamberlain as soon as he opened his 6 mos. training camp.

Wait a minute Kalan.....

are you getting confused? Wasn't that the "Manhattan Project"?