BoxRec

bnovelist wrote:The truth HURTS I know!

He juiced for Douglas, The Bowe Fights, Tyson, Mercer, and Lennox Lewis, all of his big fight Evander was shooting up Balco Style.

This is not my opinion but do you like Roy Jones Jr or Pacman/Moseley just to name 3 because Holy aint the lone Ranger when it comes to the Ped's thing

Kalan wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

Kalan wrote: Most PEDs don't help you... steroids are black market... they're not regulated and there's no quality control... they're proven to wreck the body

You must be a complete fool if you don't think steroids can help professional athletes. Steroids are, alongside EPO, the most effective PED there is. You must have been living under a rock if you think the premier athletes get their stuff off the Internet. Did you ever wonder why modern sprinters are lean as opposed to overly muscle bound like sprinters were in the 90's? Bad Internet PEDs or maybe different more effective high tech designer steroids producing leaner muscles?

Modern athletes are leaner, harder, and more athletic because of advancements in nutrition science, cardio-conditioning science, and strength training science...NOT because of PED's... if you eat better, sleep better, and train better you'll perform better... That's why 99% of the Olympic and World records from the days when steroids were still legal to take have been destroyed and left in the dust by modern athletes.. Every Olympics numerous world and Olympic record fall.

Utter nonsense, you know nothing about this subject. Do you think Ben Johnson knew nothing about nutrition or strength training? Do you think they stopped developing PEDs because athletes made up all the ground eating healthy? It's a cat and mouse game and modern day sprinters ARE leaner because they use different and improved PEDs.

As for 99% of World records having been destroyed, you'd better check that "fact" again. There are over 40 track&field records standing that predates this century. The much more stringent testing regime and advancements in testing have made it harder to cheat in track&field but people are still getting caught and new drugs are being developed. The biggest problem now has to do with nations that don't subject athletes to random testing off season. Do you think the Jamaican sprinters are clean? If you do, I've got some land in Florida to sell you.

Kalan wrote:Hardly any top athletes risk using PEDs today because their samples will be frozen and could expose them at any time in the future. It's NOT worth the risk of having your reputation destroyed like Lance Armstrong.

Really? Why do you think the Russian track team is banned from the Rio Olympics?
Oh and since you don't think PEDs are effective, have a look at the performance data of Lance Armstrong in his heyday and compare it what the riders on this years Tour produce.

Lot of nonsense here.

Asking when Holyfield fouled as if you cant point to a dozen fights for evidence of his ridiculous fouling behavior. Hes one of the easier fighters to point to for fouling.

Also, trying to say that most PEDs dont work. Really? GTFO! This is the same argument Ive seen so many PED users make "Steroid dont really do anything, I just work harder than anyone else." Ok smart guy, then stop taking the steroids. LOL. It makes no sense for a steroid user or steroid defender to pretend they dont work and then advocate for them or worse use them.

Im sorry but any idiot who says PEDs dont work doesnt know what hes talking about. There are plenty of studies that illustrate exactly how well PEDs work. One of the better studies was done by a doctor who took steroids himself to test their effects. Steroids work so well in fact that the first thing he noticed about them, the very first performance enhancing effect wasnt bigger biceps, it was better bench press, it was that his eye sight dramatically improved. Think about that in sports like golf where Tiger Woods has been accused of PEDs and where his lasik surgery was a big deal.

Sorry but when a guy incessantly headbutts, low blows, elbows, etc. and just happens to get busted buying steroids after a career that saw him go from a lean full grown adult male in an endurance sport who was known for having bad stamina to gaining over 30 pounds of solid ripped muscle and no stamina issues after training with the biggest roid head in the world at the time and who then developed all of the hallmarks of a guy who cycles off and on steroids. Sorry guys, I know you love the sport but your hero is a cheater. Period. Is he the only cheater? No. But hes a cheater.

We are asking for examples of Holyfield fouling because we want to know specifically when. It's easy to say this guy fouled a lot. If you really think he did, point out some examples.

I similarly would love someone to point out specifically where these fouls are. People talk of Holyfield as if he was flinging headbutts at Tyson, Lewis et al. Where are they?

Tuan_Jim wrote:I similarly would love someone to point out specifically where these fouls are. People talk of Holyfield as if he was flinging headbutts at Tyson, Lewis et al. Where are they?

i second that. i never perceived
him as an excessively dirty fighter.

Tuan_Jim wrote:I similarly would love someone to point out specifically where these fouls are. People talk of Holyfield as if he was flinging headbutts at Tyson, Lewis et al. Where are they?

Agreed.

Tyson was dirtier than Holyfield, yet doesn't get perceived in quite the same way.

Syntax Error wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:I similarly would love someone to point out specifically where these fouls are. People talk of Holyfield as if he was flinging headbutts at Tyson, Lewis et al. Where are they?

Agreed.

Tyson was dirtier than Holyfield, yet doesn't get perceived in quite the same way.

oh common.

klompton wrote:Asking when Holyfield fouled as if you cant point to a dozen fights for evidence of his ridiculous fouling behavior. Hes one of the easier fighters to point to for fouling.

not trying to be nasty here, please
point me to examples of him doing
excessive rule bending. i say excessive,
since we probably can agree, that every
fighter has occasional things going on
that are not totally fair.

Holyfield, like Holmes, Bowe and Tyson, didn't mind a bit of the rough stuff, but the way he is singled out as a dirty fighter is ridiculous. He'd certainly return whatever you gave him, but I've never seen him initiate anything foul and certainly never deliberately headbutt.

Perhaps to avoid a head clash he should have stopped tucking his chin into his chest & assumed the stance Lennox Lewis was in the two times he got whacked clean out - stood straight up with his jawbone in the air?

Again, please someone timecode the headbutts vs Tyson, Moorer, Lewis, Bowe et al.

hhaehre wrote:

Kalan wrote:

hhaehre wrote: You must be a complete fool if you don't think steroids can help professional athletes. Steroids are, alongside EPO, the most effective PED there is. You must have been living under a rock if you think the premier athletes get their stuff off the Internet. Did you ever wonder why modern sprinters are lean as opposed to overly muscle bound like sprinters were in the 90's? Bad Internet PEDs or maybe different more effective high tech designer steroids producing leaner muscles?

Modern athletes are leaner, harder, and more athletic because of advancements in nutrition science, cardio-conditioning science, and strength training science...NOT because of PED's... if you eat better, sleep better, and train better you'll perform better... That's why 99% of the Olympic and World records from the days when steroids were still legal to take have been destroyed and left in the dust by modern athletes.. Every Olympics numerous world and Olympic record fall.

Utter nonsense, you know nothing about this subject. Do you think Ben Johnson knew nothing about nutrition or strength training? Do you think they stopped developing PEDs because athletes made up all the ground eating healthy? It's a cat and mouse game and modern day sprinters ARE leaner because they use different and improved PEDs.

As for 99% of World records having been destroyed, you'd better check that "fact" again. There are over 40 track&field records standing that predates this century. The much more stringent testing regime and advancements in testing have made it harder to cheat in track&field but people are still getting caught and new drugs are being developed. The biggest problem now has to do with nations that don't subject athletes to random testing off season. Do you think the Jamaican sprinters are clean? If you do, I've got some land in Florida to sell you.

Kalan wrote:Hardly any top athletes risk using PEDs today because their samples will be frozen and could expose them at any time in the future. It's NOT worth the risk of having your reputation destroyed like Lance Armstrong.

Really? Why do you think the Russian track team is banned from the Rio Olympics?
Oh and since you don't think PEDs are effective, have a look at the performance data of Lance Armstrong in his heyday and compare it what the riders on this years Tour produce.

Russia has 100's of thousands of athletes trying to make their Olympic Team and had over 300 tested positive.. No other single country had over 200 cheaters so they're singling out Russia and trying to say it's "state sponsored" cheating.. I don't think clean athletes should suffer because others on their team tested dirty---and I think it's political more than anything.. But a very tough message needs to be sent to Russia and maybe it's not a bad thing if their clean athletes get hurt because of the scandal -- because there's needs to be ZERO tolerance for cheaters -- to stamp out PED cheating entirely so we never hear about it again ... except on extremely rare occasions when some idiot tries to cheat.

The top 10 cheating countries pertaining to Olympic participation are Russia.. Turkey.. France.. India.. Belgium.. Italy.. Spain.. Poland.. Kazakstan.. and South Africa ... You notice they aren't the top 10 medal winning countries.. The USA, German, Chinese, and UK athletes have been among the cleanest.. Their athletes, by and large, realize steroids help nobody win.. and it's the athlete and his training that wins the Gold.

The top 7 cheating sports for PED users among all sports that require Olympic style testing are: Wrestling.. Weight Lifting.. Power Lifting.. Cycling.. Body Building.. Track & Field.. and Aquatics ... After those sports cheating has been very minimal.. There are millions of athletes who have dreams of Olympic glory worldwide, and WAY less than 1% of them have ever cheated.. And as Lance Armstrong proved -- those who DO cheat get caught, exposed and disgraced as cheaters... NOBODY wants that... Trying to get the whole Russian Track & Field Team banned just goes to show the zealousness drug testing authorities have in pursuing PED cheats... They nail their asses to the wall and then some -- at whatever cost.

Kalan wrote:The top 10 cheating countries pertaining to Olympic participation are Russia.. Turkey.. France.. India.. Belgium.. Italy.. Spain.. Poland.. Kazakstan.. and South Africa ... You notice they aren't the top 10 medal winning countries.. The USA, German, Chinese, and UK athletes have been among the cleanest.. Their athletes, by and large, realize steroids help nobody win.. and it's the athlete and his training that wins the Gold.

Talking out of your ass again. Russia, Italy and France are in the top 10. Poland is no 23, Spain is no 31 and Belgium is 32. So yea, those countries hardly have any medals do they?

Kalan wrote:There are millions of athletes who have dreams of Olympic glory worldwide, and WAY less than 1% of them have ever cheated..

Is this a documented fact or could it be that it's just something you think?.

Kalan wrote:And as Lance Armstrong proved -- those who DO cheat get caught, exposed and disgraced as cheaters... NOBODY wants that...

Can you be more naive? Do you think even one rider in the TdF top 20 during the Armstrong years was not on PEDs? The whole sport was infected, virtually everyone was on something. Hell, young healthy people were dying in their sleep at an alarming rate. They slept with pulse alarms and their bike on a roller beside their bed so they could get up in the middel of the night and work up their hear rate when it dropped to low. That's how bad it was and that's what you had to do in order to stay competitive. But according to you PEDs don't work so I guess the athletes were doing this for nothing.

man wrote:everyf^ckin'someone has been
juicing in boxing for decades.

this

hhaehre wrote:

Kalan wrote:The top 10 cheating countries pertaining to Olympic participation are Russia.. Turkey.. France.. India.. Belgium.. Italy.. Spain.. Poland.. Kazakstan.. and South Africa ... You notice they aren't the top 10 medal winning countries.. The USA, German, Chinese, and UK athletes have been among the cleanest.. Their athletes, by and large, realize steroids help nobody win.. and it's the athlete and his training that wins the Gold.

Talking out of your ass again. Russia, Italy and France are in the top 10. Poland is no 23, Spain is no 31 and Belgium is 32. So yea, those countries hardly have any medals do they?

Kalan wrote:There are millions of athletes who have dreams of Olympic glory worldwide, and WAY less than 1% of them have ever cheated..

Is this a documented fact or could it be that it's just something you think?.

Kalan wrote:And as Lance Armstrong proved -- those who DO cheat get caught, exposed and disgraced as cheaters... NOBODY wants that...

Can you be more naive? Do you think even one rider in the TdF top 20 during the Armstrong years was not on PEDs? The whole sport was infected, virtually everyone was on something. Hell, young healthy people were dying in their sleep at an alarming rate. They slept with pulse alarms and their bike on a roller beside their bed so they could get up in the middel of the night and work up their hear rate when it dropped to low. That's how bad it was and that's what you had to do in order to stay competitive. But according to you PEDs don't work so I guess the athletes were doing this for nothing.

Russian, Italy, and France may be in the top 10 but those aren't the top 10 Gold Medal winning countries... I'm sure with the way their sport was disgraced, cyclers don't do PEDs now... Now they're cracking down... If you look at the athletes who go for or participate in the Olympic Games it's millions worldwide... Far less than 1% are dirty according to the IOC and WADA.

Kalan wrote:The USA, German, Chinese, and UK athletes have been among the cleanest.. Their athletes, by and large, realize steroids help nobody win.. and it's the athlete and his training that wins the Gold.

then they should not do drug testing
but rather concentrate on campaigns
for bringing the truth out about the
uselessness of PEDs. all the terribly
misguided athletes who risk their
entire reputation for ... nothing.

marion jones, ben johnson, how
sad they couldn't read this thread.
and actually it is enormously unfair
to take away their medals, since the
drugs did not help in any way.

lance armstrong lied and cheated
like crazy ... all for nothing. at least
we now here know the truth and can
give them back their well deserved
glory.

Put it this way... Athletes THINK the PEDS are helping, otherwise they wouldn't take them... They're making PED pushers rich... Plus the PEDS are destroying their bodies and they're destroying their own reputations---because they believe the propaganda that nobody will ever catch them.. Then they're caught and they're dumbfounded.. And a lot of people are losers including a lot of innocent teammates and other innocent people around them.

So yes... They need to be caught, banned, and made examples of... But out of many thousands of athletes you'll notice it's only a few who cheat.

Kalan wrote:Put it this way... Athletes THINK the PEDS are helping, otherwise they wouldn't take them... They're making PED pushers rich...

Could a clean rider have won the TdF 2005?

Kalan wrote:Holyfield looked pathetic versus Lewis, Bowe, Moorer, Toney, Donald, Ibragimov, Williams, and Byrd... That's why he not up there with ATG's.

Against Moorer and Bowe he was having a strong heart disease, came back to win both rematches.

Against lewis he won at least 4 rounds of each fight, being well past his prime.

Against Ibragimov, Byrd, Toney...he was so past his prime it was sad to see.

PS: He got robbed against Valuev anyway.

Holyfield is a top 10, maybe top 8 ATG Hweight.

pedrog60 wrote:Holyfield is a top 10, maybe top 8 ATG Hweight.

i second that. no one in history has
an easy night with prime evander.

He's top 50 period.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's top 50 period.

he is definitely top20 for me,
and sometimes, especially
after i just watched tyson I,
around 10.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's top 50 period.

Top 50? Ray Mercer is top 50, Morrison is top 50, Michael Dokes is top 50.

Evander beated Bowe, Mercer, Tyson, Douglas, Qawi, Foreman, Holmes, Rahman, and prime vs prime, he would ve beaten either Klitchsko.

Evander Top 8 ATG HEAVYWEIGHT. 4 TIME (SHOULD VE BEEN 5) heavyweight champion.

pedrog60 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's top 50 period.

Top 50? Ray Mercer is top 50, Morrison is top 50, Michael Dokes is top 50.

Evander beated Bowe, Mercer, Tyson, Douglas, Qawi, Foreman, Holmes, Rahman, and prime vs prime, he would ve beaten either Klitchsko.

Evander Top 8 ATG HEAVYWEIGHT. 4 TIME (SHOULD VE BEEN 5) heavyweight champion.

I believe he means regardless of weight class.

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's top 50 period.

he is definitely top20 for me,
and sometimes, especially
after i just watched tyson I,
around 10.

I have him 4th at heavy. Meant all time any weight.

Tomasino wrote:

pedrog60 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He's top 50 period.

Top 50? Ray Mercer is top 50, Morrison is top 50, Michael Dokes is top 50.

Evander beated Bowe, Mercer, Tyson, Douglas, Qawi, Foreman, Holmes, Rahman, and prime vs prime, he would ve beaten either Klitchsko.

Evander Top 8 ATG HEAVYWEIGHT. 4 TIME (SHOULD VE BEEN 5) heavyweight champion.

I believe he means regardless of weight class.