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Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 18:25
by keithmoonhangover
sweetsci wrote:I like looking for fights that were signed and scheduled, but then cancelled. It's like fantasy match-ups that are a few steps closer to reality.
Foreman - Bonavena was scheduled for March '75. This fight became Norton - Young, two and a half years earlier than it actually happened. Finally we got Norton - Quarry.
Tyson - Ruddock, November '89
Cooney - Bugner, December '81. Bugner was actually a sub for Eddie 'Animal' Lopez who'd pulled out.
Ellis - Cooper, September '69
Braddock - Schmeling, 1937
Saad Muhammad - Mustapha Muhammad, February '81
While I don't think it was even close to the point of being signed, Liston's management was trying to line up a Ken Norton fight in the fall of 1970.
I think Tex Cobb was a sub for Gerry Cooney vs. Earnie Shavers, August 1980.
Holyfield was supposed to fight some guy in 1991, but Bert Cooper was called in to sub.
'Course sometimes the cancelled fights are replaced by better match-ups. Glad we got Lewis - Klitschko instead of Lewis - Kirk Johnson.
Great post. I think Bugner would have had a great chance against Cooney.
After Tyson pulled out, Holyfield was going to fight Damiani and I would love to have seen how that fight would have gone. If a shop worn Cooper could achieve what he did in the fight, I think Damiani could have outpointed the unfocused Evander.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 18:38
by sweetsci
keithmoonhangover wrote:sweetsci wrote:I like looking for fights that were signed and scheduled, but then cancelled. It's like fantasy match-ups that are a few steps closer to reality.
Foreman - Bonavena was scheduled for March '75. This fight became Norton - Young, two and a half years earlier than it actually happened. Finally we got Norton - Quarry.
Tyson - Ruddock, November '89
Cooney - Bugner, December '81. Bugner was actually a sub for Eddie 'Animal' Lopez who'd pulled out.
Ellis - Cooper, September '69
Braddock - Schmeling, 1937
Saad Muhammad - Mustapha Muhammad, February '81
While I don't think it was even close to the point of being signed, Liston's management was trying to line up a Ken Norton fight in the fall of 1970.
I think Tex Cobb was a sub for Gerry Cooney vs. Earnie Shavers, August 1980.
Holyfield was supposed to fight some guy in 1991, but Bert Cooper was called in to sub.
'Course sometimes the cancelled fights are replaced by better match-ups. Glad we got Lewis - Klitschko instead of Lewis - Kirk Johnson.
Great post. I think Bugner would have had a great chance against Cooney.
After Tyson pulled out, Holyfield was going to fight Damiani and I would love to have seen how that fight would have gone. If a shop worn Cooper could achieve what he did in the fight, I think Damiani could have outpointed the unfocused Evander.
Thanks! I'd forgotten about Holyfield-Damiani. That could have been interesting. I'm going from memory here, but didn't Damiani's wife veto it or something?
Cooney's management were matching him very safely. I take it they didn't view Bugner as a threat. 'Course Cooney did pull out. Hmmm...
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 18:49
by Kalan
Robinson vs Scholz... Robinson vs Papp... Robinson vs Tiger... Leonard vs Nunn... Leonard vs McCallum... Leonard vs Jackson... Hagler vs McCallum... Hagler vs Graham... Hearns vs McCallum... Hearns vs Benn... Hearns vs Nunn... Santa Cruz vs Lomachenko... Golovkin vs Martinez... Golovkin vs Alvarez... Ortiz vs Wilder... Ortiz vs Fury... Crawford vs Pacquiao... Brook vs Pacquiao... Brook vs Mayweather... Thurman vs Mayweather... Thurman vs Pacquiao... Kovalev vs Chickenson
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 18:50
by keithmoonhangover
Kalan wrote:Robinson vs Scholz... Robinson vs Papp... Robinson vs Tiger... Leonard vs Nunn... Leonard vs McCallum... Leonard vs Jackson... Hagler vs McCallum... Hagler vs Graham... Hearns vs McCallum... Hearns vs Benn... Hearns vs Nunn... Santa Cruz vs Lomachenko... Golovkin vs Martinez... Golovkin vs Alvarez... Ortiz vs Wilder... Ortiz vs Fury... Crawford vs Pacquiao... Brook vs Pacquiao... Brook vs Mayweather... Thurman vs Mayweather... Thurman vs Pacquiao... Kovalev vs Chickenson
Did Hagler avoid Graham?
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 20:27
by Kalan
I think so... Graham was the number one contender at one point and Hagler fought once a year in 1985, '86, and '87. Who gets away with that??? But I think he could have beaten Graham... The fight I really wanted to see was Hagler-McCallum...
Here is Mike McCallum's side of why the fight with Hagler didn't happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMOqDLVFuk
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 16 Jul 2016, 21:00
by elmersalsa
Jeff Chandler vs Lupe Pintor would have been a classic bantamweight title fight
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 00:11
by Dart340
After watching the great Mike McCallum play pattycake with Sean Mannion for fifteen dreadful rounds, I had no interest in seeing Hagler kill him.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 05:06
by bollox
elmersalsa wrote:bollox wrote:elmersalsa wrote:Or how about these fights?:
Bob Foster vs Carlos Monzon
Michael Spinks vs Marvin Hagler
Freddie Miller vs Henry Armstrong
Jack Dempsey vs Harry Wills
Rocky Marciano vs Floyd Patterson
I don't see any point in Foster - Monzon (Foster had numerous fights at HW) or Spinks - Hagler (ditto). The bigger man would have easily beat the smaller man IMO, which proves nothing whatsoever
In these cases, you'll never know until they fight.
I have very little doubt that Foster and Spinks respectively, would have won. "A good big man beats a good smaller man" was still predominantly true during their careers. Hagler was a MW beast, but at 5'9 there would have been very little he could do to Spinks IMO Monzon would have fared a bit better against Foster but still would have lost. He and Hagler were simply too small
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 17 Jul 2016, 08:10
by Syntax Error
Would like to have seen Riddick Bowe v Razor Ruddock in 1992.
Could have happened too, but Team Bowe preferred to take on Pierre Coetzer.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 24 Jul 2016, 18:47
by Kalan
bollox wrote:elmersalsa wrote:bollox wrote:
I don't see any point in Foster - Monzon (Foster had numerous fights at HW) or Spinks - Hagler (ditto). The bigger man would have easily beat the smaller man IMO, which proves nothing whatsoever
In these cases, you'll never know until they fight.
I have very little doubt that Foster and Spinks respectively, would have won. "A good big man beats a good smaller man" was still predominantly true during their careers. Hagler was a MW beast, but at 5'9 there would have been very little he could do to Spinks IMO Monzon would have fared a bit better against Foster but still would have lost. He and Hagler were simply too small
Dick Tiger was a very tough Middleweight who won the LHW title... Unfortunately he was matched against Bob Foster... He was brutally iced like Mike Quarry
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 10:19
by Crease
Kalan wrote:I think so... Graham was the number one contender at one point and Hagler fought once a year in 1985, '86, and '87. Who gets away with that???
Get your facts straight for godsake. Bomber Graham didn't make an impact in the division until he won the European title in February '86, Hagler lost his titles in April '87. Maybe Graham would have gotten at fight with Hagler had he not lost his European title against in May '87.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 23:51
by elmersalsa
To say that Marvelous was scared or ducked a top fighter in his career is as ridiculous as saying he didn't fight no worthy opponent.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 23:53
by elmersalsa
Is like saying the great Muhammad Ali beats Wilt Chamberlain on one on one basketball.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 05:23
by Crease
elmersalsa wrote:Is like saying the great Muhammad Ali beats Wilt Chamberlain on one on one basketball.
Doesn't he? I'll have to refer to Kalan on that one.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 05:26
by Crease
elmersalsa wrote:Ezzard Charles vs Sugar Ray Robinson?
Does this one qualifies?
If Robinson couldn't beat Joey Maxim at Light Heavy, i'd say the odds of him defeating Ezzard Charles are very, very slim.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 07:07
by Syntax Error
elmersalsa wrote:To say that Marvelous was scared or ducked a top fighter in his career is as ridiculous as saying he didn't fight no worthy opponent.
Spot on.
Hagler would have crushed Graham eventually. Herol would have frustrated Hagler a bit, but he did that to everyone he fought.
Graham always managed to find a way to lose whenever he fought the elite & it would have been the same story against Hagler.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 10:47
by cfang
Marvin was a ten year undefeated, take on all comers legendary superfighter. He'd have teared graham a new one and i liked graham and saw all his fights at the time.
Syntax Error wrote:elmersalsa wrote:To say that Marvelous was scared or ducked a top fighter in his career is as ridiculous as saying he didn't fight no worthy opponent.
Spot on.
Hagler would have crushed Graham eventually. Herol would have frustrated Hagler a bit, but he did that to everyone he fought.
Graham always managed to find a way to lose whenever he fought the elite & it would have been the same story against Hagler.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 16:06
by MaxiBoxc
Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 16:23
by man
MaxiBoxc wrote:Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
vitali was close to prime.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 16:49
by MaxiBoxc
man wrote:MaxiBoxc wrote:Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
vitali was close to prime.
Intresting fact that Vitali never fell during his career. And he has fantastic KO-ratio.
Also want to watch him against Tyson at Mike's peak.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 17:18
by Tuan_Jim
MaxiBoxc wrote:Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
Vitali was in top shape - he had been scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the undercard. He was in awful shape once Lewis was done with him.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 03:24
by MaxiBoxc
Tuan_Jim wrote:MaxiBoxc wrote:Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
Vitali was in top shape - he had been scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the undercard. He was in awful shape once Lewis was done with him.
Following the logic, Lewis was in top shape too, because he had been scheduled to box Kirk Johnson. And Lennox was outboxed by Vitali during those six rounds.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 04:36
by Tuan_Jim
MaxiBoxc wrote:Tuan_Jim wrote:MaxiBoxc wrote:Vitali Klitschko and
Lennox Lewis weren't in the best shape when they faught. And Lewis has a little bit lucky with his opponent's cut.
I'd want to see rematch.
Vitali was in top shape - he had been scheduled to box Cedric Boswell on the undercard. He was in awful shape once Lewis was done with him.
Following the logic, Lewis was in top shape too, because he had been scheduled to box Kirk Johnson. And Lennox was outboxed by Vitali during those six rounds.
No, that's not logical.
Lennox Lewis was booked to make an easy defence against a fat opponent known for not having a strong chin or heart. That's why Lewis came in at a career heaviest - fatter even than for the first Rahman fight, another challenger he opted to take it easy for.
Vitali Klitschko came it a solid weight that was standard for him. In this particular Boswell fight, he was making his return to the world stage, having last been seen quitting against Chris Byrd. Lewis had an easy night lined up, hence the fat wasitline. Vitali had something to prove, hence the solid consistent weight.
In spite of Klitschko coming in at his standard weight, and Lewis being his fattest ever, and nearly 40, Klitschko still had hell with him.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 27 Jul 2016, 04:43
by cfang
I still think the one that stands out is Wills - Dempsey. It's such a shame it didnt happen. It's a close one to call but I favour Wills to win it. however, if Dempsey had won it, all the question marks about him wouldnt be there.
Re: The Great Fights That Never Happened
Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 02:14
by Kalan
Crease wrote:Kalan wrote:I think so... Graham was the number one contender at one point and Hagler fought once a year in 1985, '86, and '87. Who gets away with that???
Get your facts straight for godsake. Bomber Graham didn't make an impact in the division until he won the European title in February '86, Hagler lost his titles in April '87. Maybe Graham would have gotten at fight with Hagler had he not lost his European title against in May '87.
Stop twisting facts.. Graham won 38 straight fights... there's a lot of space between Fab '86 and April '87... at that point he was number one and Hagler could have fought him -- since Hag was fighting once a year.