BoxRec

If Frampton beats Santa Cruz he'll definitely be the front runner for 2016 Fighter of the Year

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

He is from northern Ireland so that's irish to me

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

Born in Ireland, boxed for Ireland, sounds pretty Irish to me.

expe wrote:

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

Born in Ireland, boxed for Ireland, sounds pretty Irish to me.

Born in Northern Ireland/UK as far as I'm aware.

Supremo wrote:

expe wrote:

Supremo wrote: He isn't Irish.

Born in Ireland, boxed for Ireland, sounds pretty Irish to me.

Born in Northern Ireland/UK as far as I'm aware.

Yeah he comes from a Protestant family in Tigers Bay. I think as a youngster they had to smuggle him into the gym as the gym was in a republican area. He boxed for Ireland. I've been to a lot of his fights and people from all over go to watch him. That's a good thing especially over in that part of the world.

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

thechump wrote:

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

PEDANTIC!

NI is British. A lot there are British/Irish same as I'm British/Scottish. I don't get why this is such a big deal to some people! Does it really matter? I'd still be a fan if he came from South of the border...

As I posted earlier, his fights attract Ulstermen, no republicans at the ones I've been to.

Stuarty30 wrote:Yeah he comes from a Protestant family in Tigers Bay. I think as a youngster they had to smuggle him into the gym as the gym was in a republican area.

That's not accurate. Carl started training at Midland ABC - and I can assure you that no-one would ever mistake it for a catholic area. Geographically, it's based at the bottom of the Limestone Road, so it's very near the Shore Road and Tiger Bay. This paramilitary mural is actually right around the corner from it:



I've actually been in the Midlands club and there was a union jack on the wall, as well as shrines of Davey Boy McAuley (from Larne) and Wayne McCullough (from the Highfield estate on the West Circular Road) - both protestant boxers from staunchly protestant areas.

I think the facts speak for themselves without me commenting any further or implying anything.

Stuarty30 wrote:He boxed for Ireland.

He boxed for Ireland because the British amateur boxing powers completely ignored him and yet Irish boxing invited him down to their elite performance complex down in Dublin. It was there that he struck up a great friendship with Paddy Barnes.

Stuarty30 wrote:He's getting a lot more money moving up to fight LSC than he would be by facing Rigo at SuperBantam so it's a no brainier. He's also mentioned he was struggling at the weight

He told Steve Bunce on his show on Box...Nation... that he struggled to get down to Super Bantamweight and that he wasn't hurting sparring partners when at the weight, but that he is now.

Crease wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:He's getting a lot more money moving up to fight LSC than he would be by facing Rigo at SuperBantam so it's a no brainier. He's also mentioned he was struggling at the weight

He told Steve Bunce on his show on Box...Nation... that he struggled to get down to Super Bantamweight and that he wasn't hurting sparring partners when at the weight, but that he is now.

I saw that the other night. He also said straight after the Gonzalez fight that he was struggling. I didn't quite know how to take that at the time. I thought it may have just been an excuse because of the knockdown sand performance etc.. Something hasn't been right in his last two outings anyway.

Crease wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Yeah he comes from a Protestant family in Tigers Bay. I think as a youngster they had to smuggle him into the gym as the gym was in a republican area.

That's not accurate. Carl started training at Midland ABC - and I can assure you that no-one would ever mistake it for a catholic area. Geographically, it's based at the bottom of the Limestone Road, so it's very near the Shore Road and Tiger Bay. This paramilitary mural is actually right around the corner from it:



I've actually been in the Midlands club and there was a union jack on the wall, as well as shrines of Davey Boy McAuley (from Larne) and Wayne McCullough (from the Highfield estate on the West Circular Road) - both protestant boxers from staunchly protestant areas.

I think the facts speak for themselves without me commenting any further or implying anything.

Stuarty30 wrote:He boxed for Ireland.

He boxed for Ireland because the British amateur boxing powers completely ignored him and yet Irish boxing invited him down to their elite performance complex down in Dublin. It was there that he struck up a great friendship with Paddy Barnes.

Cheers for that although I'm sure I saw an interview where he said someone had to pick him up at some lane to take him through to some club (can't remember name) because he couldn't walk to it?

Ketchel wrote:Don't see him above Jimmy McLarnin, Rinty Monaghan, Dave McAuley, Barry McGuigan, Wayne McCullough, Steve Collins, Johnny Caldwell & Freddie Gilroy at the moment.

Definitely a Who's who of the Irish/N Irish greats there mate. Just going to give it a quick breakdown on how I see them.

Jimmy McLarnin:
Should probably be ranked at Number One, he beat the best opposition - Fidel LaBarba, Pancho Villa, Bud Taylor, Sammy Mandell, Benny Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri & Lou Ambers. And yet, he still only a 2 time World Welterweight Champion. With beating that class of opposition, his achievements should have been rewarded MUCH more.

Steve Collins:
Two weight World Champion. And beat Eubank & Benn twice each. That pretty much sums up Collins' (not so dismissible) achievements.

Rinty Mongaghan:
Rinty was a personal hero of my grandfathers. Rinty had a clean-sweep of titles; British, Commonwealth, European & World Champion. His victory over Dado Marino has to go down as one of the greatest triumphs for Irish boxing ever. Yet, Rinty didn't defend his World title, so he does have to be marked down for that.

Davey Boy McAuley:
Davey Boy was a World Champion, fair enough I accept that. But his level of opposition in his reign was limited.

Barry McGuigan:
Great win against Pedroza. But poor loss to a poor fighter in Cruz.

McCullough:
Was a World Champion at Bantamweight. But Wayne had a bad tendency to lose big, important fights - look at when he fought: Naz, Morales, Daniel Zaragoza, Scott Harrison.

Johnny Caldwell:
Was World Bantamweight Champion, lost it to Eder Jofre (no shame there) but then proceeded to lose the biggest fight of his career against Freddie Gilroy. A fight that is still considered the greatest fight that Belfast has ever seen.

Freddie Gilroy:
I'd like to put Gilroy down as one of the best, but sadly enough he was never a World Champion. So he fades in comparison compared to these other greats. I would've loved to have seen Gilroy have a pop at a young Eder Jofre.

- Note: I probably could throw Damaen Kelly, Tommy Loughran, Eamon Magee & Brian Magee in to the mix here, but I don't think they done enough or beat enough good fighters to be included in with the top eight that you mentioned.

Stuarty30 wrote:Cheers for that although I'm sure I saw an interview where he said someone had to pick him up at some lane to take him through to some club (can't remember name) because he couldn't walk to it?

You are probably thinking of the Holy Family boxing club in the New Lodge. It's about a mile away from where Carl came from, and it is in a Nationalist area. It's also where Paddy Barnes and Michael Walsh originated from.


Barry McGuigan also trained there back in the day, when he moved to Belfast before becoming World Champion.

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

If you told any of my family from Northern Ireland they weren't Irish, they'd skin you alive.

Crease wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Cheers for that although I'm sure I saw an interview where he said someone had to pick him up at some lane to take him through to some club (can't remember name) because he couldn't walk to it?

You are probably thinking of the Holy Family boxing club in the New Lodge. It's about a mile away from where Carl came from, and it is in a Nationalist area. It's also where Paddy Barnes and Michael Walsh originated from.


Barry McGuigan also trained there back in the day, when he moved to Belfast before becoming World Champion.

cheers man

thechump wrote:

Supremo wrote:

mullenman wrote:If Carl wins he is the greatest Irish fighter ever

He isn't Irish.

He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

If you're Irish you have an Irish passport. I'm pretty sure Frampton will be travelling out to American on the same passport as me and 95% of the rest of the folk on this forum. I seriously doubt he would ever refer to himself as "Irish" either. That's not being pedantic, it's called being accurate and correcting ignorance.

Supremo wrote:If you're Irish you have an Irish passport. I'm pretty sure Frampton will be travelling out to American on the same passport as me and 95% of the rest of the folk on this forum. I seriously doubt he would ever refer to himself as "Irish" either.

He did refer to himself as "Irish" recently in an interview in New York. He was talking about the support he received from the "Irish fans, supporting their own Irish fighters".

Now, that's not as blunt as saying I am Irish. But isn't it pretty much an admission of the same thing? It's in one of these interviews anyway:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyurkjcsP08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXC8ZV--sBk

Supremo wrote:That's not being pedantic, it's called being accurate and correcting ignorance.

The Good Friday Agreement has given everyone of the North the right to a dual identity. We can call ourselves "British", "Irish" or "Northern Irish". This is a very heated topic over in our neck of the woods. Shall we just leave it off a boxing forum.

Leo Santa Cruz last win against Kiko Martinez don't mean much now, Martinez just drew with a Journey man Martinez has always been good but looks like its coming to a end now..

Stuarty30 wrote:

thechump wrote:

Supremo wrote: He isn't Irish.

He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

PEDANTIC!

NI is British. A lot there are British/Irish same as I'm British/Scottish. I don't get why this is such a big deal to some people! Does it really matter? I'd still be a fan if he came from South of the border...

Is northern ireland not irish then???

Supremo wrote:

thechump wrote:

Supremo wrote: He isn't Irish.

He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

If you're Irish you have an Irish passport. I'm pretty sure Frampton will be travelling out to American on the same passport as me and 95% of the rest of the folk on this forum. I seriously doubt he would ever refer to himself as "Irish" either. That's not being pedantic, it's called being accurate and correcting ignorance.

I think it is you and supremo who is being ignorant to his nationality,he is irish,u ask a scot if they class themselves as british or scottish same with welsh,frampton irish plain and simple u can tell by his accent

thechump wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

thechump wrote: He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

PEDANTIC!

NI is British. A lot there are British/Irish same as I'm British/Scottish. I don't get why this is such a big deal to some people! Does it really matter? I'd still be a fan if he came from South of the border...

Is northern ireland not irish then???

Yeah but it's part of Britain same as Scotland and Wales. It's a touchy subject in that part of the world.

thechump wrote:

Supremo wrote:

thechump wrote: He is irish born in belfast northern.....wait for it heres the biggest clue u gonna get that he is irish......IRELAND.
Stop being padantic

Why havent u answered my question from yestserday?

If you're Irish you have an Irish passport. I'm pretty sure Frampton will be travelling out to American on the same passport as me and 95% of the rest of the folk on this forum. I seriously doubt he would ever refer to himself as "Irish" either. That's not being pedantic, it's called being accurate and correcting ignorance.

I think it is you and supremo who is being ignorant to his nationality,he is irish,u ask a scot if they class themselves as british or scottish same with welsh,frampton irish plain and simple u can tell by his accent

I'm Scottish/British and proud of both. Why does it matter in any case?

Frampton will have top weight on to get any kind of result in this fight. He`s a tough little bugger (wonder if he has a touch of the midget about him - strangely large noggin) but Santa Cruz is a tall rangy fighter with a high work rate, which is exactly the wrong style of opponent for Frampton.

Cheering him on, but I can`t see anything other than a win for Santa Cruz, probably on points but maybe even a late stoppage or corner retirement by a compassionate Shane Mac.