BoxRec

greg wrote:I appreciate your advice, however I believe we keep deviating from the initial statement which sparked off this discussion. What I said was I quote "the WORST robbery IMO was when the Russian Athletics team was collectively banned from participation in the Olympic games" and that was my response to the OP question regarding worst robbery of this Olympics..No more and no less...

What I MEANT: IAAF was wrong issuing the blanket ban. They should have done IMO what all other international federations have, they had enough time for that. They showed however no intention to as opposed to all other international governing bodies. They took the easiest path by collectively punishing a group of athletes (about 70 athletes) including a large number of clean ones. I think it should be clear now what I said and I meant..

Okay, apologies if you felt I was detracting from your original point.

However I fundamentally disagree with your point of view. In fact WADA recommended the IOC to place a blanket ban over all sports, but IOC decided to allow the respective governing bodies to make that decision themselves. It was an opportunity for the IOC to take a firm stance on doping, and many believe that the IOC took the cowards way out. As far as I know the IAAF and IWF were the only sporting bodies which placed a blanket ban over all athletes, with most banning only partial % of athletes, with a very few sporting bodies making no bans.

The problem is, and I see exactly where you're coming from, we just don't know with any real certainty which athletes are genuinely clean. There was in my opinion most likely athletes which were unable to compete that were clean due to the blanket ban. Due to the magnitude of the state sponsored doping, it's conceivable that every athlete is dirty. Your completely wrong that they had enough time to review each case individually. The findings were published to the public 18 July, and opening ceremony of the games was 5 August. WADA probably first became aware of the claims a few weeks prior to the 18th, and the registration deadline for the Olympics was probably a few weeks before the opening ceremony, so by my estimation the IOC had less than 3 weeks to investigate 70 cases (and that's just athletics). The IOC however did give every athlete the opportunity to prove their innocence prior to the games. Many applied for entry into the games, under extenuating circumstances but only one was successful.

The problem is, Russia did the dirty. I can't even call it cheating, it's much worse than that. The world has to take a hard stance. How on earth can you let athletes compete which could well have cheated the whole time? What message does that send out? At the end of the day it's not the clean athletes fault, but did they know it was going on? Are they an accessory? These aren't rhetorical questions - I genuinely want to know. The other problem is that RUSADA haven't admitted to what they've done. If anything they've denied it. It's completely shameless. They have to change the culture in Russia, and until they do, their athletes cannot be trusted in the sport - because they will lie and cheat.

Rob3_142 wrote: Okay, apologies if you felt I was detracting from your original point.

No apologies necessary.

Rob3_142 wrote:However I fundamentally disagree with your point of view. In fact WADA recommended the IOC to place a blanket ban over all sports, but IOC decided to allow the respective governing bodies to make that decision themselves. It was an opportunity for the IOC to take a firm stance on doping, and many believe that the IOC took the cowards way out. As far as I know the IAAF and IWF were the only sporting bodies which placed a blanket ban over all athletes, with most banning only partial % of athletes, with a very few sporting bodies making no bans.

That is exactly where we disagree as you put it "fundamentally". Just as many believe IOC made a solomon decision allowing international federations to take final decisions which, in fact, they did except for one or probably two. And again, my point was/is that IAAF deprived clean sportsmen the right to participate in the Olympics. You disagree with that basically saying if the system is corrupt, everyone in that system must be penalised, cheats as well as clean sportsmen/women. Absolutely not.

Rob3_142 wrote:The problem is, and I see exactly where you're coming from, we just don't know with any real certainty which athletes are genuinely clean. There was in my opinion most likely athletes which were unable to compete that were clean due to the blanket ban. Due to the magnitude of the state sponsored doping, it's conceivable that every athlete is dirty. Your completely wrong that they had enough time to review each case individually.

I hope we are still talking about Olympics in Rio. If so, why can't we be sure the athletes are clean? How's that "conceivable every athlete is dirty"? Notorious RUSADA lab was shut down in November/December 2015. Since then, the testing has been carried out by British anti-doping officers with samples taken out of the the country and analysed elsewhere. I know I repeat myself but still IOC came up with 3-step procedure including but not limiting itself to re-testing of all sportsmen. A lot of them were retested in Rio. Russain officials were completely excluded. I'm sure those Russian sportsmen allowed to take part in the Olympics are as clean as anyone else.

Rob3_142 wrote:The findings were published to the public 18 July, and opening ceremony of the games was 5 August. WADA probably first became aware of the claims a few weeks prior to the 18th, and the registration deadline for the Olympics was probably a few weeks before the opening ceremony, so by my estimation the IOC had less than 3 weeks to investigate 70 cases (and that's just athletics). The IOC however did give every athlete the opportunity to prove their innocence prior to the games. Many applied for entry into the games, under extenuating circumstances but only one was successful.

It's only half of information. The ARD report came I believe in 2014, the rumours have been out there since 2015, RUSADA lab was shut down in 2015, IAAF issued a blanket ban in winter 2015. Interestingly enough, the federation that had a lot more time than the rest refused to consider each case separately. I don't know what you exactly mean with "The IOC however did give every athlete the opportunity to prove their innocence prior to the games". My understanding is that IOC agreed with IAAF decision.

Rob3_142 wrote:The problem is, Russia did the dirty. I can't even call it cheating, it's much worse than that. The world has to take a hard stance. How on earth can you let athletes compete which could well have cheated the whole time? What message does that send out? At the end of the day it's not the clean athletes fault, but did they know it was going on? Are they an accessory? These aren't rhetorical questions - I genuinely want to know. The other problem is that RUSADA haven't admitted to what they've done. If anything they've denied it. It's completely shameless. They have to change the culture in Russia, and until they do, their athletes cannot be trusted in the sport - because they will lie and cheat.

I understand and share your concern. McLaren investigation is still underway. Let's see what the final results will be. Those responsible should and I hope will be punished. Clean sportsmen should still be allowed to participate...

No evidence of fixing in Olympic bouts - concludes AIBA investigation committee

"Unprofessional relationships" within AIBA created an atmosphere of collusion between senior management and judges that undermined boxing at last year's Rio de Janeiro Olympics, the governing body said in a statement on Friday.

It added, however, that an investigation committee had found no evidence of active interference in the results after carrying out 50 interviews over a four-month period.

"An unwelcome axis of influence and sole decision-making had been created and used by former Senior Management that led to a lack of due process being carried out," AIBA president Ching-kuo Wu said.

"Whilst there is no evidence that this had a direct influence on results in Rio, if best practice is not followed 100 percent of the time by our officials and R&Js (referees and judges), that is unacceptable."

AIBA said the 36 Rio referees and judges, who were sidelined pending the investigation, would now be reintegrated on a case-by-case basis.

The tournament in August was embroiled in controversy surrounding a new '10-point must' scoring system, with allegations by some boxers that they had been robbed of victory.

Ireland's world bantamweight champion Michael Conlan called AIBA "cheats" after he lost on points to Russia's Vladimir Nikitin in a quarter-final.

AIBA also dropped a number of judges and referees during the competition, after finding that "less than a handful" of the decisions from 239 bouts reviewed were not at the level expected.

The organization's French executive director Karim Bouzidi was also reassigned to a new role.

Friday's statement spoke of a "lack of proper procedural norms" due to "a concentration of decision-making power and the assigning of roles assumed by former senior management that had a detrimental impact on in-competition best practice."

It said the actions taken by AIBA post-Rio had been justified.

An automated Swiss Timing system will now assign officials to matches, with all five judges' scorecards used to determine the winner of a bout instead of just three chosen at random by a computer.

"There is no evidence that the reallocation of medal rankings is required for Rio 2016, but AIBA will be researching the feasibility of processes for the appeal of decisions in the future," it said in the statement.

A broad education program involving boxers, coaches, officials and fans will be set up "to instil a greater understanding of scoring and give a strong reminder of the importance of sportsmanship, respect and fair play values.

"The subjectivity of scoring is part of what makes the sport unique, and the nature of the contest means that strong opinions are formed by teams and fans, but that should not impact negatively on the integrity of the officials," AIBA said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no-evidenc ... --oly.html

Their expression "Unprofessional relationships" is an interesting attempt at playing down what was clearly a fiasco.

So they've exonerated themselves from wrong doing? Lol, only in boxing. Get the fornicating pro's out of there. I know the few that did struggled with higher weight and multiple weigh ins, but made a goal with financial gain, it could be really dangerous.

It's not a very satisfactory outcome. They're downplaying it massively, when in actual fact there were some very dubious scoring, which has not been justified. Perhaps the judges should help the boxers which lost out on medals understand how they reached their scores?

Cent0089 wrote:Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

where did you watch that fight? I can't find it anywhere online...

The Conlan fight was a horror show! Massive reason why I don't watch the ams anymore!

Was on the end of a few stinkers when I boxed. I also got stopped in a fight against a current pro. He snapped my head back with a jab! Ref stepped in. I literally wasn't even hurt!

A fight I was winning!

Stuarty30 wrote:The Conlan fight was a horror show! Massive reason why I don't watch the ams anymore!

Was on the end of a few stinkers when I boxed. I also got stopped in a fight against a current pro. He snapped my head back with a jab! Ref stepped in. I literally wasn't even hurt!

A fight I was winning!

I'll bite! Who?

TheGingerBomber wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:The Conlan fight was a horror show! Massive reason why I don't watch the ams anymore!

Was on the end of a few stinkers when I boxed. I also got stopped in a fight against a current pro. He snapped my head back with a jab! Ref stepped in. I literally wasn't even hurt!

A fight I was winning!

I'll bite! Who?

Ryan Brawley and Jamie McLevy. Twice it happened.

DaNo wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:Dunaytsev and Hrgovic robbed today (Yoka did not win a single round)

where did you watch that fight? I can't find it anywhere online...

Nowhere legally. IOC is paranoid about rights infringement. No Olympic event videos can be found anywhere.

Stuarty30 wrote:

TheGingerBomber wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:The Conlan fight was a horror show! Massive reason why I don't watch the ams anymore!

Was on the end of a few stinkers when I boxed. I also got stopped in a fight against a current pro. He snapped my head back with a jab! Ref stepped in. I literally wasn't even hurt!

A fight I was winning!

I'll bite! Who?

Ryan Brawley and Jamie McLevy. Twice it happened.

I've never heard of them! A feel stupid now.