HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:FWIW, Hagler did weigh in as high as 163 a couple of times so it's possible he could simply add a couple of pounds on that and get to within 10lbs of Maxim without compromising his ability too much. In theory at least. With that in mind I reckon Hagler gets the win over 15 hard-fought but broadly easy to score rounds. Weight-wise he does seem naturally bigger than Robinson at least.
He's not beating Maxim. He's a world class fighter. It would be too much for him.
Maxim was a good fighter but not exactly a star. More a workmanlike guy who fought at the highest level but lost against the top guys he fought. No doubt the heat helped the bigger man in the Robinson fight too. Marvin was special. A super fighter who I cannot see being beaten by someone like maxim. Hagler is like top 5 in middles all time. Maxim probs 10-20 at lt heavy. Hagler on pts. He's smaller but he's a level up.
You're forgetting that Hagler avoided big Middleweights like Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum -- and Marvin lost to Sugar Ray Leonard -- who was a Welterweight coming off a 3-year-layoff when he beat Hagler.. Marv was good, but way overrated compared to the top Middleweights in Boxing History..
I'm quite sure Ketchel, Greb, Walker, Monzon, Toney, Jones, Hopkins, Nunn, McCallum, and Golovkin kick his tail in or beat him -- among other guys like Reggie Johnson who would give him Hell.. I don't see where Hagler fought the toughest natural Middleweights during his reign.. It was a soft era for 160.
Kalan wrote:You're forgetting that Hagler avoided big Middleweights like Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum -- and Marvin lost to Sugar Ray Leonard -- who was a Welterweight coming off a 3-year-layoff when he beat Hagler.. Marv was good, but way overrated compared to the top Middleweights in Boxing History..
I'm quite sure Ketchel, Greb, Walker, Monzon, Toney, Jones, Hopkins, Nunn, McCallum, and Golovkin kick his tail in or beat him -- among other guys like Reggie Johnson who would give him Hell.. I don't see where Hagler fought the toughest natural Middleweights during his reign.. It was a soft era for 160.
I feel it is not fair to include the Leonard fight into the critique. Hagler was way pass his prime when he fought Leonard. There was a story in one of the boxing rags at the time where Bert Sugar, after watching Hagler train, called a colleague who had been at Leonard's camp, Sugar asked 'can Leonard still box at all, because Hagler is finished.' Bert Sugar had been watching Hagler (attempt to) skip rope and it wasn't a pretty site. Ie. Hagler's timing was gone (and it showed that night.)
Kalan wrote:You're forgetting that Hagler avoided big Middleweights like Michael Nunn and Mike McCallum -- and Marvin lost to Sugar Ray Leonard -- who was a Welterweight coming off a 3-year-layoff when he beat Hagler.. Marv was good, but way overrated compared to the top Middleweights in Boxing History..
I'm quite sure Ketchel, Greb, Walker, Monzon, Toney, Jones, Hopkins, Nunn, McCallum, and Golovkin kick his tail in or beat him -- among other guys like Reggie Johnson who would give him Hell.. I don't see where Hagler fought the toughest natural Middleweights during his reign.. It was a soft era for 160.
I feel it is not fair to include the Leonard fight into the critique. Hagler was way pass his prime when he fought Leonard. There was a story in one of the boxing rags at the time where Bert Sugar, after watching Hagler train, called a colleague who had been at Leonard's camp, Sugar asked 'can Leonard still box at all, because Hagler is finished.' Bert Sugar had been watching Hagler (attempt to) skip rope and it wasn't a pretty site. Ie. Hagler's timing was gone (and it showed that night.)
I don't know where you heard that story from APerno. It's total BS... I can still skip rope with great timing and I'm sure there're other guys my age who can.. It's like riding a bicycle...a skill you don't lose if you continue doing it.. Now some guys don't work out. They don't stay in shape, or take care of themselves when they quit Boxing. They get a big fat pot belly and eat all kinds of junk... They can't run or jump well and can't play basketball or anything and they're 50 pounds overweight.. Larry Holmes was still fighting in his 50's and super fat. The only sport Larry could do at that age was box. I'm not talking about fat old men. Guys who maintain their weight and strength and do workouts every day---like Hagler still does I think, because he did keep himself in good shape for a long time after quitting Boxing---when they get to be 40 or 50 or 60 they can still jump rope like a whiz if their legs are still good. They might get their ass kicked sparring because that DOES take timing.
The reason Hagler lost was, he was too cocky about beating Leonard.. He boxed the first 4 rounds in an orthodox stance to show Leonard up.. That put Marv in a deep hole... Marvin won some nice rounds after he switched to his natural stance -- but the horse ran out of the barn by that time.
