BoxRec

Hopefully Callum Smith can find himself on this list in the next 18 months

rossij8 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Horse wrote:Is it legal to set up a boxing ring in a nightclub and allow drunk revellers to get in the ring and batter each other?

I can imagine most people would probably enjoy watching that more than a proper professional boxing match.

I'm no casual fan, but if Fury vs Wlad wasn't a suck ass fight to you, then there must no such thing as a boring fight. If I was a casual fan I'd have changed the channel after 2 rounds of that crap. Instead I suffered through it, getting sicker and sicker along the way at the complete lack of effort from Wladimir.

As a Fury / UK boxing fan was a brilliant fight to watch - couldn't take my eyes off it

I'm sure it was the same for most true boxing fans even the fringe ones, maybe a few of the casuals as at any point one punch could have changed it

It didn't so I can see why people were disapointed after

I'm as hardcore a Boxing fan as it gets. I score most major fights for TTR, and a great deal of my time every week is dedicated to Boxing. It doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend a sh*t fight is a good one.

At the end of Wlad vs Fury I was almost losing my voice screaming at Wlad "Throw a punch you motherf*cker! Throw a punch!!!"

gilgamesh wrote:

rossij8 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I'm no casual fan, but if Fury vs Wlad wasn't a suck ass fight to you, then there must no such thing as a boring fight. If I was a casual fan I'd have changed the channel after 2 rounds of that crap. Instead I suffered through it, getting sicker and sicker along the way at the complete lack of effort from Wladimir.

As a Fury / UK boxing fan was a brilliant fight to watch - couldn't take my eyes off it

I'm sure it was the same for most true boxing fans even the fringe ones, maybe a few of the casuals as at any point one punch could have changed it

It didn't so I can see why people were disapointed after

I'm as hardcore a Boxing fan as it gets. I score most major fights for TTR, and a great deal of my time every week is dedicated to Boxing. It doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend a sh*t fight is a good one.

Depends if you really want someone to win I suppose, gives it an edge - if you are a neutral then its boring

rossij8 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

rossij8 wrote:
As a Fury / UK boxing fan was a brilliant fight to watch - couldn't take my eyes off it

I'm sure it was the same for most true boxing fans even the fringe ones, maybe a few of the casuals as at any point one punch could have changed it

It didn't so I can see why people were disapointed after

I'm as hardcore a Boxing fan as it gets. I score most major fights for TTR, and a great deal of my time every week is dedicated to Boxing. It doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend a sh*t fight is a good one.

Depends if you really want someone to win I suppose, gives it an edge - if you are a neutral then its boring

I really wanted Wlad to win...so maybe that's what made it so bad for me. His complete lack of effort. If you were a Fury fan, and your guy was the only guy in the ring fighting I'm sure it was more enjoyable to watch.

Fury is such a douchebag I only ever want to see him get knocked the hell out.

The Steve Cunningham fight is the only good fight I've ever seen him in.

Wlad v Fury was a truly awful fight to watch. Intriguing? Yes. But objectively good to watch? Oh good lord, no.

gilgamesh wrote:

rossij8 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I'm as hardcore a Boxing fan as it gets. I score most major fights for TTR, and a great deal of my time every week is dedicated to Boxing. It doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend a sh*t fight is a good one.

Depends if you really want someone to win I suppose, gives it an edge - if you are a neutral then its boring

I really wanted Wlad to win...so maybe that's what made it so bad for me. His complete lack of effort. If you were a Fury fan, and your guy was the only guy in the ring fighting I'm sure it was more enjoyable to watch.

I think that's it

I was fully behind Haskins last week and that was a stinker - but I was glued til the end

rossij8 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

rossij8 wrote:
Depends if you really want someone to win I suppose, gives it an edge - if you are a neutral then its boring

I really wanted Wlad to win...so maybe that's what made it so bad for me. His complete lack of effort. If you were a Fury fan, and your guy was the only guy in the ring fighting I'm sure it was more enjoyable to watch.

I think that's it

I was fully behind Haskins last week and that was a stinker - but I was glued til the end

I wasn't rooting for Haskins nor Hall, and I thought it was a decent fight personally. Nowhere near Fight of the Year or nothing, but it wasn't bad.

Horse wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Personally I'd say the term 'elite' should be used for the absolute best of the best and that's it (certainly not for anyone outside of the P4P top 10). It's a phrase which is bandied about far too often in sport, as is 'world class', which is increasingly meaningless with each passing year in boxing due to the proliferation of titles.

Off the top of my head, I'd say Ward, Golovkin, Kovalev, Crawford, Lomachenko, Gonzalez are elite fighters. I'm not sure if any current British boxers deserve to be called elite, tbh.

Fury and Frampton both have solid claims for being in the P4P top 10.

Lomachenko has done nowhere near enough to be getting called elite as a pro.

That's where this discussion gets interesting for me.
How much weight do you put into talent vs achievement. Lomachenko looks outrageously talented, watch him against a solid operator in Roman Martinez, he's dazzling. His achievements are limited, but he's a 3 year novice. When you take that into consideration, it's rather impressive, what he has accomplished. But in terms of skills and talent, he's frightening.

Is he elite? As I say it's subjective, I wouldn't argue strongly against anyone who said he was or wasn't, but it's all down to how you measure these things.

twlyall wrote:

mullenman wrote:Don't let the paper titles fool you..
There is three world elite level brits.....
Frampton
Fury
Degale..

Crolla joins the list of he beats linares

It's harsh to leave out Joshua at HW and Brook WW, I'd say – though I do like the polemic approach to this topic. It sure has been a bad couple of weeks for british fighters.

I don't think it is.
He's not only done nothing so far, there are still a lot of unanswered questions and he's fought no-one.
I know I just went on about talent vs achievement but I still think AJ's talent is in question too.
He has ability but the power has made him look better than his ability IMO and low level of opposition have flattered him.

He may be elite level but he needs to prove it. At least with Loma, he's faced world class guys. Joshua has faced no one of note.

I don't particularly like (understatement) either AJ or the machine behind him, and I appreciate that he isn't at all fully proven, but I do think he will go on to prove himself, I do see a lot of improvement, as he gradually becomes less mechanical and his natural athleticism comes through as he relaxes more. I think he would beast wilder and if I had to bet right now would back him to beat fury.

Seems to me theres two Elites

British Elite , you reach this pinnacle , when you have one or the other, big promoters get behind you ,, buy you easy fights, and then buy you a paper title , whilst they are preparing you for the big PPV fight against one of the other Elites .

The other Elites ,,,, These are generally guys who have fought anyone and everyone who will fight them , truly shown they deserve the tag elite , and have a big following in the States , hence they become the money men and why the British Elite aspire to get there xmas prfesent , in the form of a PPV fight with them

I think you could make a case for Jamie McDonnell. Good win over the at the time undefeated Ceja who went on to win a world title and two wins over Kameda. Also got a few wins over solid Euro level fighters like Hall and Jamoye. Him vs Yamanaka would be a close fight to call.

mullenman wrote:

crusader wrote:How low could you realistically have Brook at 147?

Behind pacman therman and Bradley

And fourth don't get a medal in any sport I know

Brook would shutout the aged pacman and school bradley. Brook is v much a elite brit along with fury and frampton....

Not sure id have degale up there until he can beat a couple of decent names .....in another year joshua should be in

Boxerbeetle wrote:Personally I'd say the term 'elite' should be used for the absolute best of the best and that's it (certainly not for anyone outside of the P4P top 10). It's a phrase which is bandied about far too often in sport, as is 'world class', which is increasingly meaningless with each passing year in boxing due to the proliferation of titles.

Off the top of my head, I'd say Ward, Golovkin, Kovalev, Crawford, Lomachenko, Gonzalez are elite fighters. I'm not sure if any current British boxers deserve to be called elite, tbh.

that's the question, definition of elite. I'm not sure any brit deserves the elite tag either.

tigermoth87 wrote:I think you could make a case for Jamie McDonnell. Good win over the at the time undefeated Ceja who went on to win a world title and two wins over Kameda. Also got a few wins over solid Euro level fighters like Hall and Jamoye. Him vs Yamanaka would be a close fight to call.

Great mention, mate. His record is as good as anyone else. Plus he beat a bloke who was expected to beat him TWICE in Kameda.

mullenman wrote:

crusader wrote:How low could you realistically have Brook at 147?

Behind pacman therman and Bradley

And fourth don't get a medal in any sport I know

Does in boxing ,, Think its called Bronze ..

Taansend wrote:Great mention, mate. His record is as good as anyone else.

No, it isn't.

Taansend wrote:

tigermoth87 wrote:I think you could make a case for Jamie McDonnell. Good win over the at the time undefeated Ceja who went on to win a world title and two wins over Kameda. Also got a few wins over solid Euro level fighters like Hall and Jamoye. Him vs Yamanaka would be a close fight to call.

Great mention, mate. His record is as good as anyone else. Plus he beat a bloke who was expected to beat him TWICE in Kameda.

The Kameda wins were fantastic. He was highly touted in USA and Japan and Mcdonnell beat him twice.

The cloud over Mcdonnell has been firstly he beat Kameda at a time were British fighters were winning tough world level fights left, right and centre. His wins got completely overshadowed.

Also the fact Payano was full champion at this time put a huge shadow on his reign.
He jumps up in everyone's estimation if he fights and beats Warren for me.

Horse wrote:

Taansend wrote:Great mention, mate. His record is as good as anyone else.

No, it isn't.

He's got a solid record. If he beat Yamanaka you could argue he's elite level. Good fight that one. As you said yesterday though he has Warrėn to deal with first. I expect him to be too good for Warrėn.

Stuarty30 wrote:He's got a solid record. If he beat Yamanaka you could argue he's elite level. Good fight that one. As you said yesterday though he has Warrėn to deal with first. I expect him to be too good for Warrėn.

If he beat Yamanaka then he'd be up there with Frampton and Fury, but he hasn't done that yet and he may never fight him.

Horse wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:He's got a solid record. If he beat Yamanaka you could argue he's elite level. Good fight that one. As you said yesterday though he has Warrėn to deal with first. I expect him to be too good for Warrėn.

If he beat Yamanaka then he'd be up there with Frampton and Fury, but he hasn't done that yet and he may never fight him.

He's tall for the weight as well so a move up to SBW is an option as well. Maybe him and Quigg could have it out next year?

Stuarty30 wrote:He's tall for the weight as well so a move up to SBW is an option as well. Maybe him and Quigg could have it out next year?

I hope not.

He should stay at bantamweight.

Horse wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:He's tall for the weight as well so a move up to SBW is an option as well. Maybe him and Quigg could have it out next year?

I hope not.

He should stay at bantamweight.

I think he will as long as he's getting decent fights but I reckon Hearn will dangle the Quigg carrot in front of him sooner or later.

McDonnell v Yamanka or Tete are fights that I'd love to see. I always wanted to see Quigg in with Galahad but I don't know how I feel about Galahad getting big fights now after his cheating/lies!