BoxRec

Right, nobdoy but Holyfield. If Byrd had been fighting several top opponents and beating them, he would have made a case. He simply didn't.


I think Byrd was a hair better than some of these guys and a hair worse than others. If you want to say he was a hair better than all of them, fine; people can disagree. However he certainly did not stand out. Two nice wins in a career don't make someone stand out. And some negatives that you keep ignoring.

If Byrd stood out, people would have been clamoring for a Byrd-Lewis fight. He didn't, so nobody was.

I strongly disagree that it would have helped Lewis career standing had he fought and beat Byrd. It would not have. You can't fight everyone. It's like saying Larry Holmes didn't beat Greg Page or Gerrie Coatzee. So what? He beat several other fighters who were about as good.

I like Byrd personally; he seemed like a decent guy.
I just disagree with the whole notion that he did "amazing things" and has phenomenal boxing skills. He didn't He was a good boxer. He was not a great boxer. There is a huge difference.

Yes he outboxed Tua and beat V. Kltischko. A couple of nice wins. Wouldn't go any farther with that.
The win over Holyfield means next to nothing. Holyfield had very little left by that point. Yes, he beat Rahman. (He did not trash him. It was a competitive fight.) However, Holyfield certainly didn't look great; this is as much of an indictment against Rahman's performance as anything.
The Holyfield-Byrd fight was after the Holyfield-Ruiz fights; Holyfield looked awful for the most part in those three awful fights. This was after he fought Lewis.

You are really grasping at straws if you think the Holyfield fight was a big win Byrd; that fight should pretty much be ignored.

If Byrd was such a master boxer, these things would not have happened to him:
1. He would have not beaten so soundly by W. Klitschko.
2. He would not have been knocked out by Ibeabuchi.
3. He would have beaten Oquendo much more easily.
4. He would have easily beaten an ancient Andrew Golota. He didn't even deserve the draw that he got.

If only one of these things would have happened, maybe he could get a pass. However, it's just too much. You want to keep ignoring these things; sorry but they happened.

I think all things viewed properly Rahman has a better resume than Byrd. He beat Lewis and essentially dominated Tua twice and beat Toney.

If you knew who Byrd actually was at the time he was Lewis' mandatory you would know this is trolling. There was zero, zilch, nada interest in a Lewis-Byrd fight. Lewis-V. Klitschko was much more anticipated and that's what happened.

Byrd actually beat Golota quite easily and didn't deserve the draw.. He beat Tua by a tight margin and was a mile behind Vitali Kltschko in that lucky injury win.. He was trounced by Vlad---didn't win a round---and easily smashed out by Ike... He wasn't deserving of a title shot and had no chance in the world of beating Lewis - nobody would have attended the fight because there was zero interest.. The fight I wanted was Lewis-Vitali 2 because Vitali was winning on all scorecards at the end of their 1st fight.

jbizzle20 wrote:If you knew who Byrd actually was at the time he was Lewis' mandatory you would know this is trolling. There was zero, zilch, nada interest in a Lewis-Byrd fight. Lewis-V. Klitschko was much more anticipated and that's what happened.

Anticipated? And you talk about others lack of knowledge? Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, he pulled out and vitali moved up from the undercard a week or two before the fight. Lmao

I would have liked to have seen Lewis and Bowe fight, that was a missed opportunity just like Tyson v Bowe. I would have liked Lewis and Tyson to have fought a few years earlier than they did but Tyson always knew he couldn't win that fight especially after the prison sentence. Other than that, I don't see anything missing from Lewis' cv. He was the best heavyweight for a large part of his generation although I completely agree that Holyfield fought the better opposition overall by some distance. 3 x Bowe, 2 x Lewis and 2 x Tyson is pretty impressive but most would agree that Lewis had the edge over Holyfield overall.

I doubt ray Mercer would agree Lennox had the edge. I know Tyson doesn't.

I meant he had the edge over Holyfield in their two fights, I should have been clearer

ewenhay wrote:I meant he had the edge over Holyfield in their two fights, I should have been clearer

Oh, that he did.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:If you knew who Byrd actually was at the time he was Lewis' mandatory you would know this is trolling. There was zero, zilch, nada interest in a Lewis-Byrd fight. Lewis-V. Klitschko was much more anticipated and that's what happened.

Anticipated? And you talk about others lack of knowledge? Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, he pulled out and vitali moved up from the undercard a week or two before the fight. Lmao

Yeah I think "anticipation" is about the last thing that could be said on this. Surprise is more accurate, on both sides. Very little time to whet the appetite on that event.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:If you knew who Byrd actually was at the time he was Lewis' mandatory you would know this is trolling. There was zero, zilch, nada interest in a Lewis-Byrd fight. Lewis-V. Klitschko was much more anticipated and that's what happened.

Anticipated? And you talk about others lack of knowledge? Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, he pulled out and vitali moved up from the undercard a week or two before the fight. Lmao

He means the VK-LL rematch was highly anticipated by fans all over the world... NOBODY highly anticipated Lewis-Byrd.

BoxBuzz wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:If you knew who Byrd actually was at the time he was Lewis' mandatory you would know this is trolling. There was zero, zilch, nada interest in a Lewis-Byrd fight. Lewis-V. Klitschko was much more anticipated and that's what happened.

Anticipated? And you talk about others lack of knowledge? Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, he pulled out and vitali moved up from the undercard a week or two before the fight. Lmao

Yeah I think "anticipation" is about the last thing that could be said on this. Surprise is more accurate, on both sides. Very little time to whet the appetite on that event.

The Klitschko's were basically the future of the HW division back then. Wlad was the Atlanta gold medalist and Vitali was supposed to be there too but for a drug issue. From watching broadcasts from that era, it was clear that the hype train was behind the Klitschkos. HBO was really moving on from Lewis and favoring a deal with one of them. Kirk Johnson was not attracting that level of hype because, for one thing, the Klitschkos had the European market pulling for them as well as those at HBO. Lewis-Klitschko was going to be big whether it happened early or late that year because that was to be a passing of the torch. Johnson looked inconsistent and that Ruiz debacle really hurt his image.

jbizzle20 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Anticipated? And you talk about others lack of knowledge? Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, he pulled out and vitali moved up from the undercard a week or two before the fight. Lmao

Yeah I think "anticipation" is about the last thing that could be said on this. Surprise is more accurate, on both sides. Very little time to whet the appetite on that event.

The Klitschko's were basically the future of the HW division back then. Wlad was the Atlanta gold medalist and Vitali was supposed to be there too but for a drug issue. From watching broadcasts from that era, it was clear that the hype train was behind the Klitschkos. HBO was really moving on from Lewis and favoring a deal with one of them. Kirk Johnson was not attracting that level of hype because, for one thing, the Klitschkos had the European market pulling for them as well as those at HBO. Lewis-Klitschko was going to be big whether it happened early or late that year because that was to be a passing of the torch. Johnson looked inconsistent and that Ruiz debacle really hurt his image.

One thing that really hurt Boxing was Lewis's cowardly reneging on his promised rematch with Vitali Klitschko... Vitali was winning on all scorecards at the end of that fight -- and the way those cuts were induced on VK's eyelid and cheek made it a crime that the fight didn't go to the scorecards.

golden oldie wrote:The film shows ALL the damage to V.K's face was caused by legitimate punches.

Yes, and I don't recall Vitali complaining about anything at the time. He just wanted a rematch.

golden oldie wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Ibeabuchi was mopping the floor with Byrd if you forget the idiotic scores and watch the fight... Ibeabuchi was the aggressor and landed more and harder punches... It was not a 1-punch win like you're making it... Ike softened Byrd up for 4 rounds and then attacked him hard in the 5th.. He cut the ring off and pinned Byrd on the ropes -- and then he attacked the head and body very well and got Byrd going..

He did the prep work before delivering the KO.. a classic example of how a great puncher beats a great boxer: 1. get after him.. 2. get on him.. 3. stay on him.. 4. get him going.. 5. get him out ... Considering Ibeabuchi had a limited amateur background and only 19 pro fights.. He looked very good.

It seems that everyone who sees things differently to you is either an idiot, unqualified, or wrong in your mind.

Well you'll forgive me if I give more credence to professional judges, commentators, narrators, and such like folks, rather than a self appointed internet " expert. "

Professional judges are all over the map you idiot... So are some stupid commentators... An important fight like Mayweather-Alvarez was called a draw by one of the idiot judges.. And last weekend's debacle.. Roy Jones knows Boxing more than anyone there and told reporters Kovalev won the first 6 rounds and won the fight easy because he also won rounds in the 2nd half of the fight.. Ibeabuchi landed more punches than Byrd, harder punches, and he was the aggressor.. That adds up to him being ahead before the stoppage.

golden oldie wrote:

SteveO wrote:

golden oldie wrote:The film shows ALL the damage to V.K's face was caused by legitimate punches.

Yes, and I don't recall Vitali complaining about anything at the time. He just wanted a rematch.

Bang on the money Steve 0.

Vitali never EVER CRIED foul. He merely pointed out the obvious, which was he was ahead on the cards at the time of stoppage, and therefore he believed he was entitled to a rematch.

Racist scum, and Lewis haters have since made up yet another piece of Hollywood fantasist SHITE, to the contrary.

THIS! Klitschko wanted a rematch and Lewis didn't feel it was worth it based on the damage he did to Klitschko despite being in the worst shape of his career. Plus, Lewis' mother wanted him to quit and Lewis is very close to her. Some people forget that Lewis' mindset was basically in retirement mode by the time he got Klitschko. His career goal was beating Tyson and, once he achieved that, he simply had nothing to motivate him to keep fighting. The press was up his ass about fighting Klitschko and he took the fight just to shut them up. After beating Klitschko without even preparing properly he felt that Klitschko simply wasn't worth it, that's all. Nobody, at the time, knew that Klitschko would go on to become this dominant HW champion. In hindsight, that fight was a clash of two ATG titans but, at the time, it was just a big fight.

jbizzle20 wrote:

golden oldie wrote:

SteveO wrote: Yes, and I don't recall Vitali complaining about anything at the time. He just wanted a rematch.

Bang on the money Steve 0.

Vitali never EVER CRIED foul. He merely pointed out the obvious, which was he was ahead on the cards at the time of stoppage, and therefore he believed he was entitled to a rematch.

Racist scum, and Lewis haters have since made up yet another piece of Hollywood fantasist SHITE, to the contrary.

THIS! Klitschko wanted a rematch and Lewis didn't feel it was worth it based on the damage he did to Klitschko despite being in the worst shape of his career. Plus, Lewis' mother wanted him to quit and Lewis is very close to her. Some people forget that Lewis' mindset was basically in retirement mode by the time he got Klitschko. His career goal was beating Tyson and, once he achieved that, he simply had nothing to motivate him to keep fighting. The press was up his ass about fighting Klitschko and he took the fight just to shut them up. After beating Klitschko without even preparing properly he felt that Klitschko simply wasn't worth it, that's all. Nobody, at the time, knew that Klitschko would go on to become this dominant HW champion. In hindsight, that fight was a clash of two ATG titans but, at the time, it was just a big fight.

Once again, Vitali was a late replacement for Kirk Johnson. Nobody was badgering him to fight Vitali and it was not at the top of fans lists. A fight with Wlad was highly anticipated, but he lost to Rahman. Your timeline is way off.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Bang on the money Steve 0.

Vitali never EVER CRIED foul. He merely pointed out the obvious, which was he was ahead on the cards at the time of stoppage, and therefore he believed he was entitled to a rematch.

Racist scum, and Lewis haters have since made up yet another piece of Hollywood fantasist SHITE, to the contrary.

THIS! Klitschko wanted a rematch and Lewis didn't feel it was worth it based on the damage he did to Klitschko despite being in the worst shape of his career. Plus, Lewis' mother wanted him to quit and Lewis is very close to her. Some people forget that Lewis' mindset was basically in retirement mode by the time he got Klitschko. His career goal was beating Tyson and, once he achieved that, he simply had nothing to motivate him to keep fighting. The press was up his ass about fighting Klitschko and he took the fight just to shut them up. After beating Klitschko without even preparing properly he felt that Klitschko simply wasn't worth it, that's all. Nobody, at the time, knew that Klitschko would go on to become this dominant HW champion. In hindsight, that fight was a clash of two ATG titans but, at the time, it was just a big fight.

Once again, Vitali was a late replacement for Kirk Johnson. Nobody was badgering him to fight Vitali and it was not at the top of fans lists. A fight with Wlad was highly anticipated, but he lost to Rahman. Your timeline is way off.

How? Johnson was simply next in line for Lewis, not a highly-anticipated fight. Johnson looked like he was turning into another Golota in that fight against Ruiz. Johnson looked like crap and fouled his way to an embarrassing loss. Some called it one of the ugliest HW title fights ever. That fight pretty much ruined Johnson's rep. Vitali had never been behind on a scorecard and only bowed out against Byrd due to injury. Vitali had been a top amateur who would have been a likely gold medalist if not for a PED issue. Both Klitschkos received tremendous publicity. Lewis-Vitali was always on the radar of the public but Johnson's star was fading after the Ruiz fight as Vitali became the WBC's #1 contender. Lewis-Klitschko was a massive commercial success as it was HBO's highest rated sole-telecast in 4 years.

Damn dude, I don't know how to explain it any clearer. Lennox Lewis was fighting Kirk Johnson, vitali was fighting Cedric Boswell on the undercard. A week or two before the fight Johnson pulled out and vitali took his place. Lol, a late replacement fight can't be highly anticipated!

I'll devalue Lewis's BS win all day... Klitschko was winning the fight on ALL SCORECARDS at the end of the fight... Referee Lou Moret let Lewis get away with flagrant fouling: illegal head work.. thumb strikes.. holding and hitting.. and raking with the palm of the glove,..

golden oldie wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Once again, Vitali was a late replacement for Kirk Johnson. Nobody was badgering him to fight Vitali and it was not at the top of fans lists. A fight with Wlad was highly anticipated, but he lost to Rahman. Your timeline is way off.

How? Johnson was simply next in line for Lewis, not a highly-anticipated fight. Johnson looked like he was turning into another Golota in that fight against Ruiz. Johnson looked like crap and fouled his way to an embarrassing loss. Some called it one of the ugliest HW title fights ever. That fight pretty much ruined Johnson's rep. Vitali had never been behind on a scorecard and only bowed out against Byrd due to injury. Vitali had been a top amateur who would have been a likely gold medalist if not for a PED issue. Both Klitschkos received tremendous publicity. Lewis-Vitali was always on the radar of the public but Johnson's star was fading after the Ruiz fight as Vitali became the WBC's #1 contender. Lewis-Klitschko was a massive commercial success as it was HBO's highest rated sole-telecast in 4 years.

Correct again.

A Vitali fight was anticipated, and indeed called for, but in FACT negotiations broke down in early 2003. Hence Lewis chasing the much more lucrative rematch with Tyson. All this is explained clearly in the post above. Tyson turned the fight down. Johnson was named as his next fight with only one title on the line. Klitchko was to fight on the undercard, and the pair of them were to SQUARE OFF IN DECEMBER ANYWAY. Johnson's injury served only to bring the Lewis / Klitchko fight forward 6 months.

It is nonsense to claim one guy was at a disadvantage because of that fact. Either both of them were, or neither of them. People just want to devalue Lewis's win by claiming Vitali wasn't prepared.

Agree. Lewis- V. Klitschko was a huge deal and maybe the most anticipated fight of 2003 and Klitschko was ready. However, I will note that Lewis was poorly prepared because he was really fighting a personal dilemma at the time over whether he should just retire. In fact, as I understand it, Lewis was basically leaning toward retirement until 2 weeks before the fight but went forward with the fight anyway because he wanted to quiet the detractors and because the money was high enough. Some of the ringside commentators mentioned they were somewhat surprised to see Lewis to go through with the fight. In many ways, this fight proved just how legendary Lewis was because of how he gutted out a victory against a prime ATG despite being so out of shape. Lewis has more heart than people think. Btw, I had no idea that Lewis accepted a rematch with Tyson!!

jbizzle20 wrote:

golden oldie wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:
How? Johnson was simply next in line for Lewis, not a highly-anticipated fight. Johnson looked like he was turning into another Golota in that fight against Ruiz. Johnson looked like crap and fouled his way to an embarrassing loss. Some called it one of the ugliest HW title fights ever. That fight pretty much ruined Johnson's rep. Vitali had never been behind on a scorecard and only bowed out against Byrd due to injury. Vitali had been a top amateur who would have been a likely gold medalist if not for a PED issue. Both Klitschkos received tremendous publicity. Lewis-Vitali was always on the radar of the public but Johnson's star was fading after the Ruiz fight as Vitali became the WBC's #1 contender. Lewis-Klitschko was a massive commercial success as it was HBO's highest rated sole-telecast in 4 years.

Correct again.

A Vitali fight was anticipated, and indeed called for, but in FACT negotiations broke down in early 2003. Hence Lewis chasing the much more lucrative rematch with Tyson. All this is explained clearly in the post above. Tyson turned the fight down. Johnson was named as his next fight with only one title on the line. Klitchko was to fight on the undercard, and the pair of them were to SQUARE OFF IN DECEMBER ANYWAY. Johnson's injury served only to bring the Lewis / Klitchko fight forward 6 months.

It is nonsense to claim one guy was at a disadvantage because of that fact. Either both of them were, or neither of them. People just want to devalue Lewis's win by claiming Vitali wasn't prepared.

Agree. Lewis- V. Klitschko was a huge deal and maybe the most anticipated fight of 2003 and Klitschko was ready. However, I will note that Lewis was poorly prepared because he was really fighting a personal dilemma at the time over whether he should just retire. In fact, as I understand it, Lewis was basically leaning toward retirement until 2 weeks before the fight but went forward with the fight anyway because he wanted to quiet the detractors and because the money was high enough. Some of the ringside commentators mentioned they were somewhat surprised to see Lewis to go through with the fight. In many ways, this fight proved just how legendary Lewis was because of how he gutted out a victory against a prime ATG despite being so out of shape. Lewis has more heart than people think. Btw, I had no idea that Lewis accepted a rematch with Tyson!!

Pure fiction.

golden oldie wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Correct again.

A Vitali fight was anticipated, and indeed called for, but in FACT negotiations broke down in early 2003. Hence Lewis chasing the much more lucrative rematch with Tyson. All this is explained clearly in the post above. Tyson turned the fight down. Johnson was named as his next fight with only one title on the line. Klitchko was to fight on the undercard, and the pair of them were to SQUARE OFF IN DECEMBER ANYWAY. Johnson's injury served only to bring the Lewis / Klitchko fight forward 6 months.

It is nonsense to claim one guy was at a disadvantage because of that fact. Either both of them were, or neither of them. People just want to devalue Lewis's win by claiming Vitali wasn't prepared.

Agree. Lewis- V. Klitschko was a huge deal and maybe the most anticipated fight of 2003 and Klitschko was ready. However, I will note that Lewis was poorly prepared because he was really fighting a personal dilemma at the time over whether he should just retire. In fact, as I understand it, Lewis was basically leaning toward retirement until 2 weeks before the fight but went forward with the fight anyway because he wanted to quiet the detractors and because the money was high enough. Some of the ringside commentators mentioned they were somewhat surprised to see Lewis to go through with the fight. In many ways, this fight proved just how legendary Lewis was because of how he gutted out a victory against a prime ATG despite being so out of shape. Lewis has more heart than people think. Btw, I had no idea that Lewis accepted a rematch with Tyson!!

In fairness, it was Lewis that chased a rematch with Tyson, after negotiations for Vitali originally broke down. If you watch the Tyson / Lewis post fight interview in the ring Tyson thanks Lewis and says " lets do it again " Lewis called his bluff, and Tyson thought better of it. Then the rest is pretty much as you described it above.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I genuinely didn't know that Lewis actually sought a rematch with Tyson. Tyson needed the money but he probably also wanted to keep his health. I actually believe Tyson was seriously injured in the fight with Lewis. He started having knee issues after the Lewis fight and I think he might've injured his knee from a combination of Lewis leaning on him all night and when he fell awkwardly from that Lewis uppercut midway through the 8th. He almost missed the Etienne fight and dropped out of the Williams and McBride fights due to a knee issue. You're right about the anti-Lewis bias. It's getting pretty old. He was an absolute freak of size and skill who defeated his entire generation of elite fighters (including an elite from his successor gen in Klitschko). I can't think of many elite HWs who can say that.

Lol, you guys are in your own little fantasy world. I'm not anti-lewis. It's just complete fiction to say that a fight between Lennox and vitali was highly anticipated. Not in the states it wasn't, not at all. Boxing fans recognized it was better than the original fight. That's it