BoxRec

caldo2025 wrote:

ValMar wrote:1. Solis
2. Helenius
3. Gamboa
4. Chavez Jr.
5. M. Garcia

Remark : I hope M. Garcia will be back. I doubt this for the rest.

Please don't call me a Troll until you read my reasoning. but I honestly think that the greatest waste of potential is none other than Floyd Mayweather Jr. and it's not even close. Floyd is the most talented boxer that i've ever seen in my life and I honestly feel that we could have just witnessed the best boxer in history in our generation but history will not even come close to agreeing with that statement. Why? Because Floyd ducked and dodged the difficult fights and failed to test himself against the very best when they were at their very best. He held various titles for over a decade and never faced a #1 challenger. He safely navigated his career to avoid risks of any kind and focused more on money than solidifying his legacy through facing the best. And sadly, Floyd walked away without us ever seeing his best in the ring because he chose not to be tested. THAT is the saddest thing to me. We never ever saw him at his best so who knows how great he could be or was? That's unfulfilled potential and there's nothing sadder.

ValMar wrote:They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Judah is one of the most consistent fighters of the last few decades. He's a product of expectations beyond his talent and people not being able to admit they're wrong.

judah fought a lot. but he didnt trained a lot. he was thin and athletic, in no way should he have gased against the better conditioned floyd. had he not lost condition in the second half of the fight, he would have won, he won the first half of the fight.

imagine the athletiscm and speed judah had, which was superior to floyd, which everybody could see during there fight, imagine judah with the talent he had with a training urgency a floyd or pac had, judah would probably be a atg top 10

Enlightened-One wrote:

ValMar wrote:They wasted their great potential - my top 5 list

• Ike Ibeabuchi (criminal activity outside the ring)
• Joan Guzman (a potential pound-for-pounder who lacked dedication to the sport)
• Salvador Sanchez (driving at high-speed caused his fatal car crash)
• Edwin Valero (suicide)
• Gerald McClellan (taking short-cuts to save cash, resulting in him employing an incompetent and inexperienced team and consequently enduring a chaotic training camp for the Benn fight)

Grant wrote:Now go easy on me here but i would like to throw Aussie Anthony Mundine into the mix. Fought and lost to Kessler when he was very inexperienced then made what i thought were a couple of bad career choices and had the chance to fight Mikkel again as the Champion. Was looking forward to that but it never happened. That fight could have made him. Then he dropped two divisions when he was really in his prime years but as i have said elsewhere if a prize fighters career was measured in dollars he was extremely successful.

jezzamundo wrote:

Jip wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
It was more than just Floyd's superior conditioning that won him that fight - after the third round he completely changed his fighting style, keeping his hands up and walking Zab down.

yeah, it was a combo of both. what you mentioned and the fact that judah didnt has as much energy left as he used to have beginning.

had judah prime pacquiao kind of condition, he would have countered with quiciker reflexes or put on some combos with more pop behind it. wouldve shoudve couldve, floyd won, but judah had an emens potential.

immense?

It was a far closer fight than the judges had it. Zab clearly won rounds 1-3 and 12, so 116-112 (115-112 if the KD was counted) should be the widest any judge should have it. The 4th round is debatable, which if you give to Judah and count the KD becomes a 114-113 fight. I think Judah's mental frailty and lack of boxing brain would stop him from being an ATG, ever with better training.

tiny_acres wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

ValMar wrote:1. Solis
2. Helenius
3. Gamboa
4. Chavez Jr.
5. M. Garcia

Remark : I hope M. Garcia will be back. I doubt this for the rest.

Please don't call me a Troll until you read my reasoning. but I honestly think that the greatest waste of potential is none other than Floyd Mayweather Jr. and it's not even close. Floyd is the most talented boxer that i've ever seen in my life and I honestly feel that we could have just witnessed the best boxer in history in our generation but history will not even come close to agreeing with that statement. Why? Because Floyd ducked and dodged the difficult fights and failed to test himself against the very best when they were at their very best. He held various titles for over a decade and never faced a #1 challenger. He safely navigated his career to avoid risks of any kind and focused more on money than solidifying his legacy through facing the best. And sadly, Floyd walked away without us ever seeing his best in the ring because he chose not to be tested. THAT is the saddest thing to me. We never ever saw him at his best so who knows how great he could be or was? That's unfulfilled potential and there's nothing sadder.

You make some dumb posts.
But by far this is your dumbest post ever.
Congratulations on entering the up coming special Olympics. You will fit right in.

SportsRatings wrote:How about this one: George Foreman

Retired at age TWENTY-EIGHT and remained retired for TEN YEARS.

These days, those are known as prime heavyweight years.

To be fair, George did redeem himself by making a comeback at 38 and regaining the lineal heavyweight championship at age 45. But that only shows that he could have been just as great had he fought in the previous decade instead!

man wrote:

SportsRatings wrote:How about this one: George Foreman

Retired at age TWENTY-EIGHT and remained retired for TEN YEARS.

These days, those are known as prime heavyweight years.

To be fair, George did redeem himself by making a comeback at 38 and regaining the lineal heavyweight championship at age 45. But that only shows that he could have been just as great had he fought in the previous decade instead!

good point. the problem of george in
his twenties was an inflated ego. he
took the ali fight way too personal.

george lost fair and square but he
could not accept it. i do not think
there was any chance he would beat
ali. it was the classic boxer beats
puncher scenario, but for the man
who could walk through everyone
else this was unacceptable. i do think
foreman had flaws in his game, like
bad footwork. i always felt he stood
to narrow and was overall not very
well balanced. to me he was like a
huge torso on clumsy sticks.

he would have needed to go back
to the drawing board and spend a
year with a new trainer to straighten
out his technique. without that we
know what happened and it would
have been the same throughout his
thirties had he not stopped competing.

man wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Please don't call me a Troll until you read my reasoning. but I honestly think that the greatest waste of potential is none other than Floyd Mayweather Jr. and it's not even close. Floyd is the most talented boxer that i've ever seen in my life and I honestly feel that we could have just witnessed the best boxer in history in our generation but history will not even come close to agreeing with that statement. Why? Because Floyd ducked and dodged the difficult fights and failed to test himself against the very best when they were at their very best. He held various titles for over a decade and never faced a #1 challenger. He safely navigated his career to avoid risks of any kind and focused more on money than solidifying his legacy through facing the best. And sadly, Floyd walked away without us ever seeing his best in the ring because he chose not to be tested. THAT is the saddest thing to me. We never ever saw him at his best so who knows how great he could be or was? That's unfulfilled potential and there's nothing sadder.

You make some dumb posts.
But by far this is your dumbest post ever.
Congratulations on entering the up coming special Olympics. You will fit right in.

i disagree. that was a good post.

caldo2025 wrote:

man wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

You make some dumb posts.
But by far this is your dumbest post ever.
Congratulations on entering the up coming special Olympics. You will fit right in.

i disagree. that was a good post.

Thanks Man. Tiny Acres is just a troll of mine who doesn't even read my posts but comments negatively on every one of them. Not the classiest of individuals.

darkstar81 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

man wrote: i disagree. that was a good post.

Thanks Man. Tiny Acres is just a troll of mine who doesn't even read my posts but comments negatively on every one of them. Not the classiest of individuals.

Floyd himself claims he never even brought his B game, let alone his A game, to the ring. So he, himself, states we never saw the best of him. Why is that? Because he didn't face prime Pacman or Prime Cotto. His best days were pre 2008, everything after that was exhibition stuff.

caldo2025 wrote:

darkstar81 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Thanks Man. Tiny Acres is just a troll of mine who doesn't even read my posts but comments negatively on every one of them. Not the classiest of individuals.

Floyd himself claims he never even brought his B game, let alone his A game, to the ring. So he, himself, states we never saw the best of him. Why is that? Because he didn't face prime Pacman or Prime Cotto. His best days were pre 2008, everything after that was exhibition stuff.

That is exactly right, darkstar. That, to me, is the poster boy for wasted potential. Is he brilliant? Absolutely. Will he be able to age with a sound mind and mild repercussions from a brutal sport? Absolutely. It's hard for me to fault a boxer that has made more money than anyone in the history of the sport because it's prize fighting but in the end, history will never classify Floyd as TBE as he so wanted to be.

darkstar81 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

man wrote: i disagree. that was a good post.

Thanks Man. Tiny Acres is just a troll of mine who doesn't even read my posts but comments negatively on every one of them. Not the classiest of individuals.

Floyd himself claims he never even brought his B game, let alone his A game, to the ring. So he, himself, states we never saw the best of him. Why is that? Because he didn't face prime Pacman or Prime Cotto. His best days were pre 2008, everything after that was exhibition stuff.

Jip wrote:

darkstar81 wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
Thanks Man. Tiny Acres is just a troll of mine who doesn't even read my posts but comments negatively on every one of them. Not the classiest of individuals.

Floyd himself claims he never even brought his B game, let alone his A game, to the ring. So he, himself, states we never saw the best of him. Why is that? Because he didn't face prime Pacman or Prime Cotto. His best days were pre 2008, everything after that was exhibition stuff.

floyd talks a lot of nonsense when the day is long. like not having sugar ray robinson in his top 5 atg. dude is a moron.

floyd never used his b game, but he lost to castillo and had all he could handle against maidana. what about judah, when floyd was losing the first 3-4 rounds, than he didnt use his a game to change the course of the fight hahahahaha......

caldo2025 wrote:

Jip wrote:

darkstar81 wrote:
Floyd himself claims he never even brought his B game, let alone his A game, to the ring. So he, himself, states we never saw the best of him. Why is that? Because he didn't face prime Pacman or Prime Cotto. His best days were pre 2008, everything after that was exhibition stuff.

floyd talks a lot of nonsense when the day is long. like not having sugar ray robinson in his top 5 atg. dude is a moron.

floyd never used his b game, but he lost to castillo and had all he could handle against maidana. what about judah, when floyd was losing the first 3-4 rounds, than he didnt use his a game to change the course of the fight hahahahaha......

The point is that Floyd never faced anyone elite enough to make him dig down to that deepest level like all of the GOAT have. I'm talking Sugar Ray Leonard/Hearns 1. Down on the cards, needing a KO for the win and getting it done against an undefeated fighter that everyone deemed unbeatable. And the great ones didn't just have one of these...SRL had a handful of these fights and that's why he'll always be one of the GOAT's. I can't say Floyd had any of these types of fights. Not even close.

Jip wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Jip wrote:

floyd talks a lot of nonsense when the day is long. like not having sugar ray robinson in his top 5 atg. dude is a moron.

floyd never used his b game, but he lost to castillo and had all he could handle against maidana. what about judah, when floyd was losing the first 3-4 rounds, than he didnt use his a game to change the course of the fight hahahahaha......

The point is that Floyd never faced anyone elite enough to make him dig down to that deepest level like all of the GOAT have. I'm talking Sugar Ray Leonard/Hearns 1. Down on the cards, needing a KO for the win and getting it done against an undefeated fighter that everyone deemed unbeatable. And the great ones didn't just have one of these...SRL had a handful of these fights and that's why he'll always be one of the GOAT's. I can't say Floyd had any of these types of fights. Not even close.

now let me give you a boxing lesson.

you know what a game means for guys like floyd or ward (both got the same mind set), it means more holding, more clinching, more grabing.

ward needed his a game to turn the fight and most of what he did showing his a game against an atg light heavyweight which kovalev is was holding, grabing, clinching.

caldo2025 wrote:

Jip wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:
The point is that Floyd never faced anyone elite enough to make him dig down to that deepest level like all of the GOAT have. I'm talking Sugar Ray Leonard/Hearns 1. Down on the cards, needing a KO for the win and getting it done against an undefeated fighter that everyone deemed unbeatable. And the great ones didn't just have one of these...SRL had a handful of these fights and that's why he'll always be one of the GOAT's. I can't say Floyd had any of these types of fights. Not even close.

now let me give you a boxing lesson.

you know what a game means for guys like floyd or ward (both got the same mind set), it means more holding, more clinching, more grabing.

ward needed his a game to turn the fight and most of what he did showing his a game against an atg light heavyweight which kovalev is was holding, grabing, clinching.

Let's give Floyd a little more credit than that though, he only started excessively holding towards the end of his career. Floyd was dynamic and anyone that doesn't see that is clueless. I'm not knocking him for his talent, just his opposition. I would have loved to see him in 2-3 fights with top fighters in their primes to see what kind of talent would spill out of him on fight night but he never risked it. Never fought his #1 contenders. He was above the law so he never had to take one risk he didn't want to. Not one.

Syntax Error wrote:

man wrote:

SportsRatings wrote:How about this one: George Foreman

Retired at age TWENTY-EIGHT and remained retired for TEN YEARS.

These days, those are known as prime heavyweight years.

To be fair, George did redeem himself by making a comeback at 38 and regaining the lineal heavyweight championship at age 45. But that only shows that he could have been just as great had he fought in the previous decade instead!

good point. the problem of george in
his twenties was an inflated ego. he
took the ali fight way too personal.

george lost fair and square but he
could not accept it. i do not think
there was any chance he would beat
ali. it was the classic boxer beats
puncher scenario, but for the man
who could walk through everyone
else this was unacceptable. i do think
foreman had flaws in his game, like
bad footwork. i always felt he stood
to narrow and was overall not very
well balanced. to me he was like a
huge torso on clumsy sticks.

he would have needed to go back
to the drawing board and spend a
year with a new trainer to straighten
out his technique. without that we
know what happened and it would
have been the same throughout his
thirties had he not stopped competing.

This is a good summation.

The Ali loss affected Foreman way more than it should have.

He should have pulled himself together & got himself back out there in 1975 in a bid to try & get his title back, but instead, he virtually disappeared whilst at the same time expecting Ali to send him a postcard.

ValMar wrote:Foreman was a genuine HW champion. He could have done more, I agree. Anyway, he (and Tyson, I have to repeat) don't belong to this group.

Jip wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Jip wrote:


now let me give you a boxing lesson.

you know what a game means for guys like floyd or ward (both got the same mind set), it means more holding, more clinching, more grabing.

ward needed his a game to turn the fight and most of what he did showing his a game against an atg light heavyweight which kovalev is was holding, grabing, clinching.

Let's give Floyd a little more credit than that though, he only started excessively holding towards the end of his career. Floyd was dynamic and anyone that doesn't see that is clueless. I'm not knocking him for his talent, just his opposition. I would have loved to see him in 2-3 fights with top fighters in their primes to see what kind of talent would spill out of him on fight night but he never risked it. Never fought his #1 contenders. He was above the law so he never had to take one risk he didn't want to. Not one.

sure, at the end he started that poo, before he was what u said.

he stayed away from top fighters, he climbed very slowly the division, no urge to meet prime tszyu. he did a lot of vacation during 2008, 2009, no urge fighting prime pacquiao.