BoxRec

Golden Oldie gets it right on Marciano (who never lost but never fought anyone) but DEAD WRONG on Lewis (who suffered two 1-punch KO losses)

He also gets it wrong on Vitali Klitschko who was easily beating Lewis... Vitali was winning on ALL SCORECARDS by the halfway point, which ended the fight after 6 rounds... Lewis knew that he got away with slashing Vitali's face with a thumb strike and the palm of his right glove as he was holding and hitting VK shortly after the 3rd round started... Lewis was trying to blind Klitschko because he was almost knocked out in the first 2 rounds... Lewis was desperate, and he knew he had corrupt judge Lou Moret in his pocket... He knew Moret would call no fouls no matter what he did... Expert commentator George Foreman even said, "The referee has to stop this holding and hitting by Lewis."

Lewis knew Vitali was coming for revenge in the rematch... So after bragging for months that he would "FK up the other side of his face" Lewis slinked off like a dog-assed coward and quit his career cold -- because Vitali was his mandatory challenger and he'd be stripped if he fought anyone else... BTW Vitali Klitschko was never knocked down an was never behind on points in his entire career. That wouldn't change if he got the chance to kill LL.

Kevin McBride was OVER 6' 5".

So do i need to explain why tyson wasnt in his prime again or are you just that stupid?

He didn't fight any Heavyweights, Vitali fought 47 of them. The one nearest to Tyson in height, reach, and weight was Norris, he lasted a round. again.

I dont know whats worse.

That youre too dense to realize why i mentioned hagler to refute your stupid argument

Or that you think since norris and tyson were a similar height that proves vitali would win.

You have definitely managed to so far

.

How long did it take you to come up with that?

Tyson has NOT beaten a guy 6' 7" tall who weighed 250. Your idea of " near " is of no importance. Another

Because one extra inch in height makes a huge difference at heavyweight.

Wait i forgot you think that autamtically makes you a better fighter.

You think youre clowning me but the entire forum is laughing at you.

The man was shot to bits, he had been DQ'd twice against Bowe, KTFO in a round by Lewis, and quit against Grant in a fight he was winning in the 10th round, having tasted the canvas. He was without a doubt mentally shot to shite.

Lol. Missing the point yet again.

A list of nonentities without equal until he meets 47 year old George Foreman and LOSES. Ah but, ( cry the Tyson fanboys ) he beat Douglas. Yes he did. This of course will be the same Douglas that was out of the ring for TWICE the amount of time than the convicted rapists 3 years his nuthuggers claim ruined him. You are getting good at earning these aren't you?

A list of nonentities is exactly how i would describe the people on vitalis resume

Your whole argument boils down to you think vitali would prove too much due to the height and weight difference.

I listed what, 6, 7, 8 fighters who were all in the 6'4-6 240-250 pound range whom tyson had no trouble dealing with? Not all of them fought exactly like vitali, but it proves he isnt going to automaticaly shut down and be helpless solely because of the height and weight because he has overcome that several times.

Vitali needs to bring something else to the table. His chin, volume punching, and toughness can be equalizers. It certainly wont be his ring iq (or lack thereof), flimsy pawing jab, or concrete feet footwork that will help him win.

Don't be such a fool. If people like you want to crow about beating the likes of Savarese, or the 38 year old Holmes who hadn't been in a ring for almost 2 years, of course you must count the Williams and McBride defeats. It is called a " balanced " view.

Nothing about your view is balanced. Using the mcbride and williams fights is equivalent to using the ali of the berbick fight. Or leanard of the norris fight. It makes you look incredibly stupid.

Also, context: holmes still had a decent career AFTER Tyson beat him. He was on a win streak and outclassed a prime ray mercer then gave a prime holyfield all he could handle. When mcbride and williams fought tyson he had absolutely nothing left. Not everyone ages at the same pace. You have guys like hopkins, foreman and holmes at one extreme, and you have ali and quarry n another extreme. Short swarmers like tyson and frazier also age faster due to their style and training. Wear and tear

Does Ruddock even know what a combination is, other than the numbers on a safe? Tillis, another joke who had not only been stopped by Thomas, Page and Witherspoon, none of whom had had more than 20 fights going in, but he also contrived to lose to the 14 fight novice Marvis Frazier. Thomas was a junkie. See above for Holmes. As for Berbick, not only did he make Golota look sane, he was another one like Bruno and Spinks, lost before the bell rang.

*yawn* so apparently tyson did not beat a single credible heavyweight. Where have i heard that before? Oh yeah, from 12 year olds on youtube who know nothing about the sport.

You didnt refute any of my points either. You said all his opponents in his prime were just "trying to survive". I pointed out how ruddock was a gladiator and was not afraid of tyson. Instead of conceding you take a cheap shot at him by accusing him of not knowing how to throw combos. Berbick was not afraid. He tried desperately to get up and stared tyson down at the referees instructions. Mike jameson was not afraid, he even smirked at him. Tillis wasnt scared and put on a boxing clinic.

Stop bringing up irrelevant crap and stay on topic. You're losing.

All 5 men that stopped Tyson were BIGGER than him, who took his shots and fired right back harder and more often, and that is the point.

Were not gonna go over this again. Any fight after lewis is irrelevant to the discussion. Douglas and lewis were avoiding a fire fight, they didnt slug it out. When douglass got too aggressive he paid for it and was knocked down. Lennox hid behind his jab the whole fight even though tyson was a gun shy has been.

The burden is on you to prove vitali can take tysons punches and outlast him.

I think you should go the whole hog and show your true ignorance by claiming Lennox Lewis was still in his prime when he beat Tyson.

Try reading my posts before you respond. When the hell did i say lewis was in his prime when he beat tyson?

The reason Vitali has a KO ratio of 87 % is because he wore opponents down with the VOLUME of punches he threw. Check the stats on how many punches he threw per round on average. Tyson was useless from the outside, and as weak as a kitten on the inside, as far as ANYONE with the size and strength of Vitali is concerned. His only opportunities would arise at mid range. He couldn't knock Vitali off his feet if he lived to be a million, and would be eating punches from range, and on his way in. Like he always was against bigger stronger guys, he would just hang on inside hoping for the ref to call break.

I don't believe you have EVER seen Klitchko fight, and have formed your opinion on moronic information gleaned from internet boards by idiots who still can't get over the fact that the Heavyweight division hasn't been ruled by US fighters for years now.

If you bothered to read my previous posts youd know

i already said vitali would need to wear tyson down and throw lots of punches

. He isnt stopping him with one shot and he isnt going to outbox him. It would be an ugly brutal fight in the trenches.

Tyson was not useless on the outside. He would make people miss and look silly with his weaving and counters. Vitali cant fight on the outside anyway so whats your point?

Your last paragraph is clearly you projecting your insecurities onto me. The more you type, the more clear it is youve probably neve seen a full fight of either of these guys and parrot the same anti tyson crap from other forums.

I have always maintained that Louis and Ali, and a handful of others were better than Tyson and would have beaten him.
But wait a minute. Tyson weighed more than Louis, Dempsey and Ali, so he had to be better right? All we have to do is look at the what scale says, right?

Exactly, this guy must be kalans cousin or his dupe.

[/quote]

Exactly, which might explain why the 222 Tyson spanked the 215 Holyfield. But hang on a minute???????????????????????????????????

You 2 are well suited.

I believe you are entitled to another couple of [/quote]

Sarcasm must be new to you.

Cygnus475 wrote:

Kevin McBride was OVER 6' 5".

So do i need to explain why tyson wasnt in his prime again or are you just that stupid?

He didn't fight any Heavyweights, Vitali fought 47 of them. The one nearest to Tyson in height, reach, and weight was Norris, he lasted a round. again.

I dont know whats worse.

That youre too dense to realize why i mentioned hagler to refute your stupid argument

Or that you think since norris and tyson were a similar height that proves vitali would win.

You have definitely managed to so far

.

How long did it take you to come up with that?

Tyson has NOT beaten a guy 6' 7" tall who weighed 250. Your idea of " near " is of no importance. Another

Because one extra inch in height makes a huge difference at heavyweight.

Wait i forgot you think that autamtically makes you a better fighter.

You think youre clowning me but the entire forum is laughing at you.

The man was shot to bits, he had been DQ'd twice against Bowe, KTFO in a round by Lewis, and quit against Grant in a fight he was winning in the 10th round, having tasted the canvas. He was without a doubt mentally shot to shite.

Lol. Missing the point yet again.

A list of nonentities without equal until he meets 47 year old George Foreman and LOSES. Ah but, ( cry the Tyson fanboys ) he beat Douglas. Yes he did. This of course will be the same Douglas that was out of the ring for TWICE the amount of time than the convicted rapists 3 years his nuthuggers claim ruined him. You are getting good at earning these aren't you?

A list of nonentities is exactly how i would describe the people on vitalis resume

Your whole argument boils down to you think vitali would prove too much due to the height and weight difference.

I listed what, 6, 7, 8 fighters who were all in the 6'4-6 240-250 pound range whom tyson had no trouble dealing with? Not all of them fought exactly like vitali, but it proves he isnt going to automaticaly shut down and be helpless solely because of the height and weight because he has overcome that several times.

Vitali needs to bring something else to the table. His chin, volume punching, and toughness can be equalizers. It certainly wont be his ring iq (or lack thereof), flimsy pawing jab, or concrete feet footwork that will help him win.

Don't be such a fool. If people like you want to crow about beating the likes of Savarese, or the 38 year old Holmes who hadn't been in a ring for almost 2 years, of course you must count the Williams and McBride defeats. It is called a " balanced " view.

Nothing about your view is balanced. Using the mcbride and williams fights is equivalent to using the ali of the berbick fight. Or leanard of the norris fight. It makes you look incredibly stupid.

Also, context: holmes still had a decent career AFTER Tyson beat him. He was on a win streak and outclassed a prime ray mercer then gave a prime holyfield all he could handle. When mcbride and williams fought tyson he had absolutely nothing left. Not everyone ages at the same pace. You have guys like hopkins, foreman and holmes at one extreme, and you have ali and quarry n another extreme. Short swarmers like tyson and frazier also age faster due to their style and training. Wear and tear

Does Ruddock even know what a combination is, other than the numbers on a safe? Tillis, another joke who had not only been stopped by Thomas, Page and Witherspoon, none of whom had had more than 20 fights going in, but he also contrived to lose to the 14 fight novice Marvis Frazier. Thomas was a junkie. See above for Holmes. As for Berbick, not only did he make Golota look sane, he was another one like Bruno and Spinks, lost before the bell rang.

*yawn* so apparently tyson did not beat a single credible heavyweight. Where have i heard that before? Oh yeah, from 12 year olds on youtube who know nothing about the sport.

You didnt refute any of my points either. You said all his opponents in his prime were just "trying to survive". I pointed out how ruddock was a gladiator and was not afraid of tyson. Instead of conceding you take a cheap shot at him by accusing him of not knowing how to throw combos. Berbick was not afraid. He tried desperately to get up and stared tyson down at the referees instructions. Mike jameson was not afraid, he even smirked at him. Tillis wasnt scared and put on a boxing clinic.

Stop bringing up irrelevant crap and stay on topic. You're losing.

All 5 men that stopped Tyson were BIGGER than him, who took his shots and fired right back harder and more often, and that is the point.

Were not gonna go over this again. Any fight after lewis is irrelevant to the discussion. Douglas and lewis were avoiding a fire fight, they didnt slug it out. When douglass got too aggressive he paid for it and was knocked down. Lennox hid behind his jab the whole fight even though tyson was a gun shy has been.

The burden is on you to prove vitali can take tysons punches and outlast him.

I think you should go the whole hog and show your true ignorance by claiming Lennox Lewis was still in his prime when he beat Tyson.

Try reading my posts before you respond. When the hell did i say lewis was in his prime when he beat tyson?

The reason Vitali has a KO ratio of 87 % is because he wore opponents down with the VOLUME of punches he threw. Check the stats on how many punches he threw per round on average. Tyson was useless from the outside, and as weak as a kitten on the inside, as far as ANYONE with the size and strength of Vitali is concerned. His only opportunities would arise at mid range. He couldn't knock Vitali off his feet if he lived to be a million, and would be eating punches from range, and on his way in. Like he always was against bigger stronger guys, he would just hang on inside hoping for the ref to call break.

I don't believe you have EVER seen Klitchko fight, and have formed your opinion on moronic information gleaned from internet boards by idiots who still can't get over the fact that the Heavyweight division hasn't been ruled by US fighters for years now.

If you bothered to read my previous posts youd know

i already said vitali would need to wear tyson down and throw lots of punches

. He isnt stopping him with one shot and he isnt going to outbox him. It would be an ugly brutal fight in the trenches.

Tyson was not useless on the outside. He would make people miss and look silly with his weaving and counters. Vitali cant fight on the outside anyway so whats your point?

Your last paragraph is clearly you projecting your insecurities onto me. The more you type, the more clear it is youve probably neve seen a full fight of either of these guys and parrot the same anti tyson crap from other forums.

I have always maintained that Louis and Ali, and a handful of others were better than Tyson and would have beaten him.
But wait a minute. Tyson weighed more than Louis, Dempsey and Ali, so he had to be better right? All we have to do is look at the what scale says, right?

Exactly, this guy must be kalans cousin or his dupe.

Exactly, which might explain why the 222 Tyson spanked the 215 Holyfield. But hang on a minute???????????????????????????????????

You 2 are well suited.

I believe you are entitled to another couple of [/quote]

Sarcasm must be new to you.[/quote]

Gee Whiz... Mike Tyson was never in his prime was he??? ... Over a 15 year stretch he got knocked out by 42-1 underdog Buster Douglas... He got knocked out by battered and aging Evander Holyfield... He got knoocked out by 250-pound Lennox Lewis... He got knocked out by a guy Vitali Klitschko crushed in his previous fight, Danny Williams... He quit against a guy with zero boxing skills who Mariusz Wach sent to intensive care with one smashing punch, a woefully inept 285-pound plodder named Kevin McBride.

No problem... Tyson was past his prime for all 15 years because Cus D'Amato had died and Mike couldn't find another trainer.

Come to think of it, don't credit Tyson Fury for beating Wladimir Klitschko... Blame Manny Steward for dying and leaving Wlad with sh!t coaches.

Those quotes breakdown are unreadable. Considering the posters, might be my gain though.

Tyson's losses to Douglas and Holyfield mean a lot. To a lesser extent, I guys you could that the Lewis fight means something.
The losses to Williams and McBride don't mean much at all. Anyone who knows much about the sport knows that.

W. Klitschko losses to Ross Purrity, Corries Sanders and Lamon Brewster count as well. Throw out the loss to Tyson Fury.
V. Klitschko losses to Byrd and an obese Lewis count as well.

I am going to go out on a lib and say that Tyson's performed better in his losses. His opponents fought much better fights then the Klitschkos' opponents did and he was more competitive.

How about the victories? (I actually think the quality of victories mean something. sort of a quaint notion.)
Tyson beat Thomas, Bruno, Tubbs, etc. All better than anyone either of the Klitschkos beat.

Tyson was light years better than either one of them.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Tyson's losses to Douglas and Holyfield mean a lot. To a lesser extent, I guys you could that the Lewis fight means something.
The losses to Williams and McBride don't mean much at all. Anyone who knows much about the sport knows that.

W. Klitschko losses to Ross Purrity, Corries Sanders and Lamon Brewster count as well. Throw out the loss to Tyson Fury.
V. Klitschko losses to Byrd and an obese Lewis count as well.

I am going to go out on a lib and say that Tyson's performed better in his losses. His opponents fought much better fights then the Klitschkos' opponents did and he was more competitive.

How about the victories? (I actually think the quality of victories mean something. sort of a quaint notion.)
Tyson beat Thomas, Bruno, Tubbs, etc. All better than anyone either of the Klitschkos beat.

Tyson was light years better than either one of them.

That's insanity... Bruno was a punching bag who slowpoke James Smith clocked... Tubbs was a fat boy with no power. Loser Lionel Butler knocked stiff with a shot... Thomas was a crackhead who Tommy Morrison wiped out in a round.. Anybody who ranks those bags over David Haye, a brilliant and fast boxer-puncher, is an idiot who doesn't know what he's looking at... Tyson got knocked out by Buster Douglas -- a guy who Mike White shlttcanned.. David Haye got stopped once, well before his prime started---but he's way too polished and skilled to get lit up like Mike Tyson regularly did---after Mike reached his prime... I assume when you've had 37 fights you're in your prime -- and if a 42-1 underdog beats the fk out of you? That's on you.

Tyson lost to Douglas when he underestimated him. It happens. Larry Holmes could have lost a couple of more fights than his record suggest.

Watching these fighters I think the 1988 Tyson that fought Holmes married to the woman of his dreams, still worth millions and still quite a popular young man beats Vitali no problem.

Listening to Holyfield talk about what he knows about Tyson convinces me that neither brother has a chance. Holyfield says that Tyson is a programmed fighter rather than a thinking fighter. Rooney would need to use Tyson Athletic ability which is impressive and his game plan to beat Vitali. I honestly doubt that Tyson has anything to worry about here with Vitali.

I remember watching a video with Cayton and Rooney analysing Tyson loss to Douglas and Holyfield. Rooney was asked what would be different if he was in Tyson's corner. Rooney basically said he would have told Tyson how to neutralise Buster's jab and get him on the inside.

Rooney said that the reason Tyson couldn't beat Holyfield was more because he couldn't outlast him because his fitness wasn't good enough. Tyson showed glimpses against Holyfield but simply wasn't fit enough over the course of the fight. Rooney said that Tyson needed to be more aerobically fit against Holyfield and that he would have had a distinctive game plan for Holyfield.

Rooney had no doubt that Tyson under him would have beaten Douglas and Holyfield.

I don't think Vitali beats 88 Tyson with the confidence Tyson had. Tyson was too good defensively to lose to Vitali.

Klee Gluckman wrote:Tyson lost to Douglas when he underestimated him. It happens. Larry Holmes could have lost a couple of more fights than his record suggest.

Watching these fighters I think the 1988 Tyson that fought Holmes married to the woman of his dreams, still worth millions and still quite a popular young man beats Vitali no problem.

Listening to Holyfield talk about what he knows about Tyson convinces me that neither brother has a chance. Holyfield says that Tyson is a programmed fighter rather than a thinking fighter. Rooney would need to use Tyson Athletic ability which is impressive and his game plan to beat Vitali. I honestly doubt that Tyson has anything to worry about here with Vitali.

I remember watching a video with Cayton and Rooney analysing Tyson loss to Douglas and Holyfield. Rooney was asked what would be different if he was in Tyson's corner. Rooney basically said he would have told Tyson how to neutralise Buster's jab and get him on the inside.

Rooney said that the reason Tyson couldn't beat Holyfield was more because he couldn't outlast him because his fitness wasn't good enough. Tyson showed glimpses against Holyfield but simply wasn't fit enough over the course of the fight. Rooney said that Tyson needed to be more aerobically fit against Holyfield and that he would have had a distinctive game plan for Holyfield.

Rooney had no doubt that Tyson under him would have beaten Douglas and Holyfield.

I don't think Vitali beats 88 Tyson with the confidence Tyson had. Tyson was too good defensively to lose to Vitali.

You're basically excusing Tyson's very poor boxing ability... Anytime Tyson fought a big, fast, tall, skilled Heavyweight like Lewis or Douglas, who could box and punch, he was knocked out... Tyson would probably have beaten Michael Grant in a very tough fight... Grant was very slow like Frank Bruno, James Smith, and Razor Ruddock, but Grant managed to knock out the super slow and hittable Golota... Grant wanted to fight Tyson but the fight never happened, maybe because Grant was so big, so tall, and so strong... Tomasz Adamek outboxed 38-year-old Michael Grant to get a title shot at 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko... Vitali easily outboxed the 44-1 Adamek by a wide margin in every round -- in a display Tyson could never equal -- before dispatching Adamek... That's the difference between a fast skillful big man like Vitali and a slow plodding big man like Grant.

Let's compare guys who both Vitali and Mike fought

Also it's interesting to compare Vitali's Lewis fight to Tyson's Lewis fight... Lewis was OLDER than Tyson but easily jabbed Mike to death out-landing Mike more than 2 to1... He beat Mike up badly every round before hammering Mike out for the count... In contrast Vitali outscored Lewis by a ton of punches and had him rocking and reeling all over the ring on the verge of a KO loss... Vitali was winning the fight on ALL SCORECARDS at the end of the 6th.. The fight should have gone to the scorecards and and Vitali should have been awarded the fight on a TD.. because the cuts that stopped the fight were all inflicted by foul blows that the corrupt referee ignored.

Mike also fought Danny Williams... who had just been dominated and knocked out by Vitali Klitschko... Vitali beat Williams so easily it was ridiculous and Vitali wanted to fight Mike Tyson next... Mike Tyson wanted to fight Danny Williams next... It didn't go well for Mike... He was out-boxed, beaten up, and knocked out... Mike just sat there taking the 10-count, probably not wanting to take the kind of beating he took from Lewis, Holyfield, and Douglas in previous fights -- where he was beaten half to death.

A Vitali Klitschko vs Mike Tyson fight could easily have happened if Mike had any guts... Klitschko would have beaten Mike savagely before knocking him out ice cold... and that's why the fight never happened... Vitali was too big, too strong, too tall, too fast, too skilled, and too tough for Mike... Vitali was never knocked down in his career... Vitali was never behind on points in his career... Tyson was knocked down many times... Tyson was knocked out 5 times.

Some people like to blame Mike losing 4 years because of a rape conviction that sent him to prison... Vitali had to take 4 years off to rehap his legs, that were badly damaged in many Kickboxing fights... Vitali came back 4 years later at 37 and was better than ever... He had longevity which is another quality of greatness Tyson lacked... When guys get pounded, knocked down, beaten up, and flattened for 10---such as Mike Tyson---they don't last.

Vitali was 'too fast'...

Something I never thought I'd read!

Too fast to quit against Chris Byrd maybe.

Wilt Chamberlain way too fast for Vitali

Well if you're going to compare speed -- here are a few items you'll never bother to read and comprehend...

Buster Douglas was a lot older than Tyson but proved to be a lot faster of hand and foot than young Mike Tyson. He knocked Mike TF OUT.

Evander Holyfield was another guy who was older than Mike Tyson and his hands were too fast for Mike... He beat the living crap out of Mike and stopped him.

Lennox Lewis was also older than Mike. But he was WAY too fast for Mike.. He slapped the living bejabbers out of Mike and KTFO of him for the 10-count.

Vitali Klitschko was too fast for Lennox Lewis... He out-scored him by a ton and was winning on ALL SCORECARDS at the conclusion of their fight.

Vitali never fought a prime Lennox Lewis. It's a pointless comparison. He fought a Lennox Lewis who had mentally cashed out of the game after dispatching Tyson, the name who he had focussed on since turning pro. He was fat, old and had been out of the ring for over a year.

The only fight relevant to to the initial discussion, which is Vitali v Tyson PRIME FOR PRIME, is the Buster Douglas fight as this fell in to Tysons prime period. Buster Douglas was very sharp that night. Sharper than Vitali ever was. Vitali never had real top line speed. Nothing like it.

I actually think Vitali gives Mike plenty of trouble but that a prime Tyson outworks Vitali to take a 116-112 kind of decision. It's a very interesting match up.

I don't think so... I don't think it's an interesting matchup up at all... Vitali is way too big, tall, strong, tough, with way too many boxing skills for Mike... A lot of people thought Sam Peter, who was 30-1 would be too much for Vitali after a 4-year layoff. But he destroyed Peter. And Lennox Lewis was a lot bigger and stronger when he was 37.. He weighed 250 for Tyson.. If Vitali Klitscho performed the way Lewis did at 37 nobody would give him a break.. They'd just say it proves he was never any good.. It was more Vitali being good than it was Lewis being bad.

Lewis was past his best against Tyson. He was even further removed from his prime by the time he beat Vitali.

A prime Tyson is a nightmare for Vitali. He never faced anything remotely like a prime Tyson. He was defensively light years ahead of anything Vitali had to face. Vitali's power was overrated too. He landed flush on old man Lennox yet Lewis just smiled. He couldn't stop an old Shannon Briggs. He was heavy handed but his stoppages were an accumulation of punches rather than explosive single shots. As I say, interesting match up because of Vitali's seemingly great chin and awkward style and strength.
He could possibly outlast Tyson and drag him in to deep waters but Vitali never really beat anyone of any standing ( Sam Peter holding a world title was embarrassing for the entire sport, he was awful ) to suggest he could. Also worth noting that Vitali's body let him down on two occasions and countless others when training, what's to say it doesn't let him down against Tyson?

It's far from an easy fight to call imo.

Regarding Lewis getting a pass at 37 for his performance. Lewis had nothing to prove. He had beaten the two names from his era along with some other good fighters. He gets a pass for being fat, old and still beating the hungry lion called Vitali! He showed how great a champion he was by out-toughing Vitali that night.

lillywhite14 wrote:Lewis was past his best against Tyson. He was even further removed from his prime by the time he beat Vitali.

A prime Tyson is a nightmare for Vitali. He never faced anything remotely like a prime Tyson. He was defensively light years ahead of anything Vitali had to face. Vitali's power was overrated too. He landed flush on old man Lennox yet Lewis just smiled. He couldn't stop an old Shannon Briggs. He was heavy handed but his stoppages were an accumulation of punches rather than explosive single shots. As I say, interesting match up because of Vitali's seemingly great chin and awkward style and strength.
He could possibly outlast Tyson and drag him in to deep waters but Vitali never really beat anyone of any standing ( Sam Peter holding a world title was embarrassing for the entire sport, he was awful ) to suggest he could. Also worth noting that Vitali's body let him down on two occasions and countless others when training, what's to say it doesn't let him down against Tyson?

It's far from an easy fight to call imo.

Regarding Lewis getting a pass at 37 for his performance. Lewis had nothing to prove. He had beaten the two names from his era along with some other good fighters. He gets a pass for being fat, old and still beating the hungry lion called Vitali! He showed how great a champion he was by out-toughing Vitali that night.

Lewis scared the sh!t out of Bowe, but didn't really beat Vitali... He slashed his face with foul blows and the fight should have gone to the scorecards like the British broadcasters said it would.. Vitali was ahead on all cards so he would have won.. Lou Moret was a corrupt referee who ignored fouls by Lewis, but if the fight went to the cards Vitali was a unanimous TD winner... Lou Moret later ignored over 100 Robert Guerrero fouls in his Andre Berto fight... While Guerrero was holding and hitting Berto with impunity Max Kellerman shouted "SHADES OF LENNOX LEWIS" to laughter from the HBO crew... They laughed because that was Lewis's favorite fouling tactic: holding and hitting.. You see it within 25 seconds of the start of round 3... The right handed thumb strike that nicked the eyelid cut, the neck grab and head rub to worsen the cut, and the holding and hitting and palm slash to the face all happened from 15 to 25 seconds into the the 3rd -- because Lewis was desperate.. Vitali almost knocked him out in the first 2 rounds.. But with blood streaming into his right eye VK didn't get those right hands off as well from the 3rd through the 7th.

Tyson didn't have anybody but Douglas to fight in his 20's.. Douglas was the only guy nearly as big, tall, strong, fast, and skilled as Vitali who Tyson fought in those years.. Nobody other prime Heavyweight Tyson fought in those years was any good.. He didn't fight anybody else good until he fought Holyfield... Then he didn't fight anyone else good until he fought Lewis... The best prime Heavyweights Mike fought all beat the living crap out of him, knocking Mike down, and knocking him out.. That's exactly what Vitali Klitschko would have done to Tyson.. Vitali was never outboxed by ANYONE... He was never floored by anyone.. He was never behind on points to anyone... He was too quick, slick, big, and powerful for Tyson.. He would have run him over like a locomotive and steamrolled him... I also think Tua, Mercer, and Ibeabuchi would have hammered Tyson right into the canvas... They were too big, strong, and tough for Mike.. Tua easily went the distance with Lewis and Mercer nearly beat Lewis.. Wladimir stopped Mercer easily. But it's a shame so many 90's Heavyweights ducked the Klitschko's.

Actually it was blood streaming into Vitali's left eye... from 2 slashes on the eyelid...

Okay Kalan if you believe that Vitali didn't lose to Lewis that's cool.

Vitali's legacy is quite secure. Wlad's less accomplished older brother who got his ass kicked by Lennox Lewis.

Vitali's legacy is secure... He was beating Lennox Lewis on ALL scorecards at the conclusion of the fight... which was stopped on cuts... Lewis was in danger of being knocked out in the 1st 2 rounds so he blinded Vitali's right eye with a thumb strike, neck grab, head and hair rub, and palm slash immediately to start the 3rd... The corrupt referee didn't call the fouls or the fight would have gone to the scorecards -- with Vitali winning a TD.

Lewis promised Vitali a rematch but punked out when Vitali was installed as his mandatory challenger.

rather the fouls were commited by Lewis's right glove on Vitali's left eye -- a thumb strike, head rub, and palm slash -- by 25 seconds into the 3rd.

You're basically excusing Tyson's very poor boxing ability... Anytime Tyson fought a big, fast, tall, skilled Heavyweight like Lewis or Douglas, who could box and punch, he was knocked out

Vitali had none of those qualities other than being tall and big so stfu. You assume all tall fighters are the same with your narrow minded agenda. Its reeeally getting old.

Biggs, tillis, and tucker were all big fast skilled boxers and tyson looked excellent in those fights so even by your parameters you once again dont know wtf you're talking about.

And for your idiotic comparison, lennox is one of the top ten best heavies of all time in terms of skill, size and power while tyson was almost completely washed up yet it took lewis 8 rounds of clubbing jabs and overhand right to take tyson out. Vitali was in his PRIME and was brutally stopped by a fat past his prime lewis in 6 rounds.

Cygnus475 wrote:

You're basically excusing Tyson's very poor boxing ability... Anytime Tyson fought a big, fast, tall, skilled Heavyweight like Lewis or Douglas, who could box and punch, he was knocked out

Vitali had none of those qualities other than being tall and big so stfu. You assume all tall fighters are the same with your narrow minded agenda. Its reeeally getting old.

Biggs, tillis, and tucker were all big fast skilled boxers and tyson looked excellent in those fights so even by your parameters you once again dont know wtf you're talking about.

And for your idiotic comparison, lennox is one of the top ten best heavies of all time in terms of skill, size and power while tyson was almost completely washed up yet it took lewis 8 rounds of clubbing jabs and overhand right to take tyson out. Vitali was in his PRIME and was brutally stopped by a fat past his prime lewis in 6 rounds.

You're an idiot with a turd for a brain... Biggs was not skilled. Tillis was not skilled. Tucker was not skilled. They were 2nd rate, slow, weak, and lacked power.. Tucker was easily beaten in a Title Fight by Herbie Hide... Hide was easily knocked out in 2 rounds by Vitali Klitschko.. Biggs was trashed by Bowe who was trashed by the inept foulster Golota.. Golota was hammered out by Michael Grant... Grant was easily outboxed by Tomasz Adamek... Adamaek was dominated and knocked out by a 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko... Tillis was beaten by Mike Tyson... Tyson was knocked out quickly by Danny Williams... Williams was brutally beaten and stopped by Vitali Klitschko.

And Lewis is one of the best ever and trashed Tyson very easily... but Lewis was losing on ALL SCORECARDS to Vitali Klitschko at the end of their fight... Vitali was big, strong, tall, fast, skilled, powerful, and never behind on points and never knocked down... Both happened to Lewis.

Tillis, Biggs, and Tucker are slow and unskilled yet he is singing the praises for the speedy and slick Klitschko? Wow.
Tucker was shot by the time he fought Hide.
Tyson was shot by the time he fought Danny Williams.
Bowe beat Golota.

Maybe an obscure boxing rule should be pointed out. If you are winning a fight on the scorecards but are stopped or quit like a dog, you still lose.

Otherwise a great post.

Maybe you should be aware of something in Boxing called corruption... Vitali was winning on ALL SCORECARDS and Klitschko-Lewis should have gone to the cards because Lewis fouled the Hell out of VK to start the 3rd when he slashed open those cuts... It wasn't legal punches that inflicted those cuts.. That was the only fight Lewis ever won on cuts and the only fight VK lost on cuts.. He was never seriously cut in any other fight. Lewis hit Mavrovic non-stop and failed to open the slightest nick.. Lewis was desperate after he was almost knocked out in the 1st 2 rounds and he fouled like crazy. Lewis was only 37, Vitali fought to age 41. He retired the cowardly Lewis.

Maybe you never watched Tillis lose to Marvis Frazier... Tucker get shittcanned by Herbie Hide... And Biggs get battered out by every top fighter he fought

And maybe you never saw a 37 year old Vitali Klitschko, who was coming off a 3-year-layoff, smash the crap out of 30-1 Sam Peter.. Peter blew out Oleg Maskaev who knocked out Hasim Rahman twice ... In between those fights Rahman knocked Lennox Lewis out with 1 punch... Something that never happened to Vitali Klitschko... Vitali was never outboxed, never knocked down, and never behind on points after any fight... He only lost due to injury and corruption. Other fights where Vitali showed his skills and speed were, Tomasz Adamek, 44-1... Juan Carlos Gomez, 44-1... Chris Arreola 27-0... Kirk Johnson, 34-1, and Corrie Sanders 39-2, and Larry Donald, 39-2-2, and Vaughn Bean 42-2.. Klitschko was the first to stop each of them except Gomez, and the only guy to stop Donald... Vitali would murder little Mike, who was knocked out 5 times... Vitali was never knocked down.

Kalan wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:

You're basically excusing Tyson's very poor boxing ability... Anytime Tyson fought a big, fast, tall, skilled Heavyweight like Lewis or Douglas, who could box and punch, he was knocked out

Vitali had none of those qualities other than being tall and big so stfu. You assume all tall fighters are the same with your narrow minded agenda. Its reeeally getting old.

Biggs, tillis, and tucker were all big fast skilled boxers and tyson looked excellent in those fights so even by your parameters you once again dont know wtf you're talking about.

And for your idiotic comparison, lennox is one of the top ten best heavies of all time in terms of skill, size and power while tyson was almost completely washed up yet it took lewis 8 rounds of clubbing jabs and overhand right to take tyson out. Vitali was in his PRIME and was brutally stopped by a fat past his prime lewis in 6 rounds.

You're an idiot with a turd for a brain... Biggs was not skilled. Tillis was not skilled. Tucker was not skilled. They were 2nd rate, slow, weak, and lacked power.. Tucker was easily beaten in a Title Fight by Herbie Hide... Hide was easily knocked out in 2 rounds by Vitali Klitschko.. Biggs was trashed by Bowe who was trashed by the inept foulster Golota.. Golota was hammered out by Michael Grant... Grant was easily outboxed by Tomasz Adamek... Adamaek was dominated and knocked out by a 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko... Tillis was beaten by Mike Tyson... Tyson was knocked out quickly by Danny Williams... Williams was brutally beaten and stopped by Vitali Klitschko.

And Lewis is one of the best ever and trashed Tyson very easily... but Lewis was losing on ALL SCORECARDS to Vitali Klitschko at the end of their fight... Vitali was big, strong, tall, fast, skilled, powerful, and never behind on points and never knocked down... Both happened to Lewis.

Tillis went the distance with Earnie Shavers and a prime Mike Tyson. He obviously had to have some skill to pull that off.

Biggs was a tall strong heavy gold medalist...none of these guys were slow or unskilled. Youre thinking of the plodding robotic vitali klitschko. Lewis was past it when he fought vitali u nimrod.

Funny that Lewis was past it at 37 but Vitali fought to age 41, better than ever...

Biggs was slow and hittable.. The boy got pounded by anybody good.. Tillis was a walking punching bag.. Page biffed him like nobody's business, and even pathetic Ruddock and Bugner beat Page.. Those boys couldn't hang.. Tucker looked slow like he could barely move.

Vitali Klitschko was much faster, but Klitschko did have stiff legs.. He injured them severely in Kickboxing and had to take 4 years off to rehab his legs after the Danny Williams fight.. But he looked fast in that fight.. Roy Jones praised Vitali in that fight, saying "When have you ever seen a big man do that?" referring to the variety of punches he was throwing. Tyson looked like a punching bag versus Williams.. Vitali had do make adjustments to accommodate his legs. Wladimir could do plyometric jumps and get tons of spring and height out of his leaps. Vitali couldn't do that at all, but he was stronger and tougher.