BoxRec

Tomasino wrote:Marciano fought and beat the best black fighters of his day. He wasn't beaten by anyone. That's why he's an icon and an ATG. Not because he was white. What an absolute dick this guy Oldie is.

golden oldie wrote:

Controversial wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
So how does 39 year old George Foreman STOPPING a guy in 7 rounds equate to a 29 year old Marciano winning his title then retiring at 32, or a 28 year old Peter winning his title? I am saying the version that beat Toney, and Maskaev splatters Marciano.

I was making reference to a big punching HW fighting someone of similar size (actually shorter) to Marciano and not blasting them out. Don't you think Qawi would've put up a better fight if he was at his best fighting weight, i.e under 200lb?

Not particularly no. He might have been more evasive, but he certainly wouldn't have made a dent in Foreman, as he didn't at 220. Get things in perspective. Foreman had his 8th comeback fight against Quawi after a 10 year lay off. The previous 7 had lasted a total 26 rounds between them. Quawi was a step up in class to the others, even though he had only been fighting at Cruiser for the previous 3 years.

Controversial wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Controversial wrote:
Yet a 235lb Foreman, rated by many as the hardest punching HW in history, struggled to beat the former LHW and cruiserweight Qawi. Qawi was 5'7" so shorter than Marciano and Frazier and fought under 200lb for all but one bout prior to fighting Foreman. He also took the fight at very short notice coming in 30lb heavier than he was against Holyfield in his previous fight. He was out of shape. Adding 30lb of blubber wouldn't make Qawi any fitter, faster or able to take a punch better, if anything he would've probably fought a better fight if he still weighed 190lb.

Let's be clear. An old Foreman pummeled Qawi for 7 rounds and made him quit. Qawi was down a couple times and wasn't in the fight a lot that I could see. Those buzzsaw combos didn't do anything to George. It was similar to Marciano pounding fat Light Heavyweights Moore and Cockell for 9 rounds each, but they didn't have the hand speed, head movement, and slipperiness of the Camden Buzzsaw.

I thought it was similar to the Frazier fight in a way, but Foreman lacked the youth, strength, conditioning, energy, and firepower of the Frazier effort, which was his best fight that he ever fought.. You're talking about the hardest puncher ever??? Certainly not the 235 pound version who fought Qawi.. There was some power there but not the guy who ripped Frazier.. However, as an older version George was mean and serious. He hurt the Hell out of Qawi.. I expected Qawi to quit any time, because he was getting beat to death with glancing blows.. But part of power is having the conditioning, reflexes, and reactions to nail a guy clean and get him out ... and he was knocking Frazier into the ring lights.

I was more pointing out that a small out of shape guy took huge punches from Foreman for several rounds and the weight Qawi was carrying was more of a hindrance than beneficial. Qawi was very overweight, he hardly trained and took the fight at 2-3 weeks notice. Qawi was a LHW and CW and had never fought a HW before, the heaviest guy he fought before Foreman weighed 197lb. Its was a closer fight than people think, the scorecards were close and I seem to recall the commentator thought Qawi was ahead. Neither knockdown was counted as one was a punch to the back of the head and the other a push. Some posters in another post were backing Foreman to beat Tyson even at that stage of his career because Tyson was 'too small' !!!

Kalan wrote:
I disagree 100%.. Qawi looked good and looked ready to fight at that weight.. He didn't look obese, he looked fine.. I didn't see any huge punches he took from Foreman who showed poor form, but kept throwing non-stop and was hurting him... I don't give a damn what idiot commentator Al Bernstein said about who was winning either. Use your own eyes and don't listen to BS from dopes like Bernstein. Foreman was winning easily on more effective punches landing. He was beating the crap out of Qawi. The knockdowns should have counted because they were real. There's good reasons Qawi quit. To save his health and possibly life are 2 of them.. Foreman struggled like a maniac in the Alex Stewart fight.. He was beaten half to death and hung in there.. With Qawi he didn't struggle like that and was looking to stop him the whole fight. So for me the fight was 10 X easier than the Stewart fight -- and 10 X harder than the Frazier fight -- which means it wasn't that hard.

golden oldie wrote:

Dixonian wrote:

cfang wrote:Calling a decent and honourable fighter like don cockell a 'pathetic dog' is a disgrace. He had glandular problems which meant he couldn't stop putting on weight hence his move to heavy and he was most likely drained against Turpin (who was off a tremendous boxer). Cockell managed to beat Lloyd marshall twice, harry matthews and roland lastarza. He was a dam fine heavy who fought at a very high level and showed considerable bravery in the marciano fight.

Well said. He was head-butted, hit low, forearm smashed in that fight. He even threw up between rounds but never quit. A true gladiator who has the respect of any right-minded person who knows anything about boxing.

Nailed.

Controversial wrote:

Kalan wrote:
I disagree 100%.. Qawi looked good and looked ready to fight at that weight.. He didn't look obese, he looked fine.. I didn't see any huge punches he took from Foreman who showed poor form, but kept throwing non-stop and was hurting him... I don't give a damn what idiot commentator Al Bernstein said about who was winning either. Use your own eyes and don't listen to BS from dopes like Bernstein. Foreman was winning easily on more effective punches landing. He was beating the crap out of Qawi. The knockdowns should have counted because they were real. There's good reasons Qawi quit. To save his health and possibly life are 2 of them.. Foreman struggled like a maniac in the Alex Stewart fight.. He was beaten half to death and hung in there.. With Qawi he didn't struggle like that and was looking to stop him the whole fight. So for me the fight was 10 X easier than the Stewart fight -- and 10 X harder than the Frazier fight -- which means it wasn't that hard.

Qawi wasn't in shape. Three months previous he was 190lb against Holyfield and took Foreman on 2 weeks notice. Qawi dropped back to 193lb in his next fight and stayed at CW from then onwards. I never said Qawi was winning but he was hitting Foreman quite regularly and took a few rounds. If he weighed 190lb he would've put up a better fight, thats the point I'm making.

Kalan wrote:

Controversial wrote:

Kalan wrote:
I disagree 100%.. Qawi looked good and looked ready to fight at that weight.. He didn't look obese, he looked fine.. I didn't see any huge punches he took from Foreman who showed poor form, but kept throwing non-stop and was hurting him... I don't give a damn what idiot commentator Al Bernstein said about who was winning either. Use your own eyes and don't listen to BS from dopes like Bernstein. Foreman was winning easily on more effective punches landing. He was beating the crap out of Qawi. The knockdowns should have counted because they were real. There's good reasons Qawi quit. To save his health and possibly life are 2 of them.. Foreman struggled like a maniac in the Alex Stewart fight.. He was beaten half to death and hung in there.. With Qawi he didn't struggle like that and was looking to stop him the whole fight. So for me the fight was 10 X easier than the Stewart fight -- and 10 X harder than the Frazier fight -- which means it wasn't that hard.

Qawi wasn't in shape. Three months previous he was 190lb against Holyfield and took Foreman on 2 weeks notice. Qawi dropped back to 193lb in his next fight and stayed at CW from then onwards. I never said Qawi was winning but he was hitting Foreman quite regularly and took a few rounds. If he weighed 190lb he would've put up a better fight, thats the point I'm making.

He might have done better were he in better shape.. I don't see him winning or better able to take punches at a lighter weight. Michael Moorer was a Light Heavyweight Champion, but weighed as much as 250 for some of his Heavyweight fights... He weighed 247 versus Vasily Jirov and knocked him out... That added weight and strength help you a lot, but if you pack it on in a few months it might not help at all... Roy Jones added 25lbs in 3 months or so to become a Heavyweight.. It looked like damned good, functional weight to me.. It depends on how good your strength trainer is.. Some are really good and some won't help you a lot. Good ones are expensive.

Controversial wrote: Styles make fights too, Marciano would get steamrolled by Tyson but would have far more success against Ali.

Kalan wrote:
And Roy didn't weigh 193 into the ring vs Ruiz.. He weighed 198..

golden oldie wrote:You can always tell when the cretins

golden oldie wrote:

Tomasino wrote:Marciano fought and beat the best black fighters of his day. He wasn't beaten by anyone. That's why he's an icon and an ATG. Not because he was white. What an absolute dick this guy Oldie is.

Shut up you fool. Next you will come out with something even more moronic such as America WASN'T racist during Marciano's career.

You are a muppet.

golden oldie wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
You have no knowledge, hence your inability to spell.

Don't you think that mocking my spelling is a little bit childish?

Not particularly, I just like to mock smart arses, and you certainly qualify there.

Kalan wrote:The weigh-in weight is what they always announce... For instance Canyellow was 154 for his last fight, right??? ... The pre-fight weigh-in had Roy at 198.

golden oldie wrote:Only a cretin would describe a guy who has 5 inches in height, 11 inches in reach, and 30lbs in weight over Marciano as " small "

golden oldie wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Not particularly, I just like to mock smart arses, and you certainly qualify there.

My arse is indeed smart, is that your thing, nice arses?

It depends on what perfume you wear, and your hairstyle. That is the criteria I have always used with girls like you.

golden oldie wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Shut up you fool. Next you will come out with something even more moronic such as America WASN'T racist during Marciano's career.

You are a muppet.

Your still a racist. Grow up you bitter little prick.

The only racists are the Marciano nuthuggers you lowlife piece of dogshite.

golden oldie wrote:The only racists are the Marciano nuthuggers you lowlife piece of dogshite.

golden oldie wrote:You can always tell when the cretins arguments are baseless.

They have the 6' 3" with a 78" wingspan average weight 215 - 218 Holyfield, as an example of a small Heavyweight in a thread about the 5' 10" wingspan 67" ( forget the stats on Boxrec the guy gave an interview on Aussie TV and said his wingspan was ONLY 67 " ) average weigh 185 - 187, Marciano. By the way Holyfield is another one who easily batters the crap of the stumpy little Marciano.