Too Tall Jones vs Bert Cooper

[punchoutsb]

Guys like Arturo Diaz, Bash Ali, Mauricio Villegas, ismael Ruiz, Sly Kelly, Terry Krueger, and other appropriate opponents for his professional progression -- that establishment backed fighters would have gotten at a similar stage of their careers.

How do you know they ducked him? Was there even contact? I think this is all in your imagination Kalan.

Kalan. Why don't you answer my posts? It's almost as if you are making all of this up.

Making stuff up? NEVER!

[Controversial]

Guys like Arturo Diaz, Bash Ali, Mauricio Villegas, ismael Ruiz, Sly Kelly, Terry Krueger, and other appropriate opponents for his professional progression -- that establishment backed fighters would have gotten at a similar stage of their careers.

Diaz didn't turn pro until 1981
Ali was a LHW in 1980
Villegas didn't turn pro until 1984
Ruiz retired in 1980
Kelly - haven't a clue who he is
Kruegar retired in 1981 on a losing streak

Great list.

[keithmoonhangover]

Guys like Arturo Diaz, Bash Ali, Mauricio Villegas, ismael Ruiz, Sly Kelly, Terry Krueger, and other appropriate opponents for his professional progression -- that establishment backed fighters would have gotten at a similar stage of their careers.

Diaz didn't turn pro until 1981
Ali was a LHW in 1980
Villegas didn't turn pro until 1984
Ruiz retired in 1980
Kelly - haven't a clue who he is
Kruegar retired in 1981 on a losing streak

Great list.

[Kalan]

Then you explain to me, why, after winning his first 3 professional fights in his first 3 weeks (how many prospects do that?) and after smashing out 18-12-1 Fernando Montes in 41 seconds (3 weeks into his professional career in his 3rd fight, how many prospects do that?) Too Tall Jones could get NO more quality fights anywhere against any appropriate opponents. All they tossed him were dogs they knew would stink out the joint with a putrid smell.

His manager said he wanted Jones to have 40 fights in 30 months, that was their plan, so what? You haven't said what made Montes so great either, he beat no-one of note and was out of shape. The dogs they tossed Jones he should've splattered in a round if Jones was so good, not go 4 rounds with a 0-3 fighter he outweighed by 50lbs. None of your theories are based on any facts just your own imagination.

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

[keithmoonhangover]

Then you explain to me, why, after winning his first 3 professional fights in his first 3 weeks (how many prospects do that?) and after smashing out 18-12-1 Fernando Montes in 41 seconds (3 weeks into his professional career in his 3rd fight, how many prospects do that?) Too Tall Jones could get NO more quality fights anywhere against any appropriate opponents. All they tossed him were dogs they knew would stink out the joint with a putrid smell.

His manager said he wanted Jones to have 40 fights in 30 months, that was their plan, so what? You haven't said what made Montes so great either, he beat no-one of note and was out of shape. The dogs they tossed Jones he should've splattered in a round if Jones was so good, not go 4 rounds with a 0-3 fighter he outweighed by 50lbs. None of your theories are based on any facts just your own imagination.

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

What a load of bollocks.

[Controversial]

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

Ok so we can agree that Jones fought no one decent. So if he beat no one decent what makes you think he was so great, considering he wasn't exactly knocking these guys over easily?

[punchoutsb]

Guys like Arturo Diaz, Bash Ali, Mauricio Villegas, ismael Ruiz, Sly Kelly, Terry Krueger, and other appropriate opponents for his professional progression -- that establishment backed fighters would have gotten at a similar stage of their careers.

Diaz didn't turn pro until 1981
Ali was a LHW in 1980
Villegas didn't turn pro until 1984
Ruiz retired in 1980
Kelly - haven't a clue who he is
Kruegar retired in 1981 on a losing streak

Great list.

[Kalan]

Guys like Arturo Diaz, Bash Ali, Mauricio Villegas, ismael Ruiz, Sly Kelly, Terry Krueger, and other appropriate opponents for his professional progression -- that establishment backed fighters would have gotten at a similar stage of their careers.

Diaz didn't turn pro until 1981
Ali was a LHW in 1980
Villegas didn't turn pro until 1984
Ruiz retired in 1980
Kelly - haven't a clue who he is
Kruegar retired in 1981 on a losing streak

Great list.

Did Ali or Frazier ever fight any Light Heavyweights??? And couldn't Ruiz have fought Jones before he retired??? Sylvester Kelly... He was pretty good. Could have been brought out of retirement.. And who cares if Terry Krueger lost 3 in a row? He won a lot.. If he was good enough for Larry Frazier, why not Too Tall Jones? Better than the dogs Jones was forced to fight.

[gilgamesh]

Decent fighters would've been chomping at the bit to fight and knock out Too Tall Jones. Your assumption that he couldn't get fights is ridiculous. I'm sure he had a manager that was trying his best to get him back into Football because he knew that's where the money was for him, but if there was a future for him in Boxing he would've seen it through. There wasn't one, and it's not because he couldn't get fights. It's because he wasn't good enough to go further.

[Kalan]

His manager said he wanted Jones to have 40 fights in 30 months, that was their plan, so what? You haven't said what made Montes so great either, he beat no-one of note and was out of shape. The dogs they tossed Jones he should've splattered in a round if Jones was so good, not go 4 rounds with a 0-3 fighter he outweighed by 50lbs. None of your theories are based on any facts just your own imagination.

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

What a load of bollocks.

That's why... You're posts are knee-jerk BS and have no content.

[Kalan]

Decent fighters would've been chomping at the bit to fight and knock out Too Tall Jones. Your assumption that he couldn't get fights is ridiculous. I'm sure he had a manager that was trying his best to get him back into Football because he knew that's where the money was for him, but if there was a future for him in Boxing he would've seen it through. There wasn't one, and it's not because he couldn't get fights. It's because he wasn't good enough to go further.

If he wasn't good enough why was he undefeated and untied??? And how did he smash a guy out in 41 seconds that took contenders much longer to get out???

[punchoutsb]

Decent fighters would've been chomping at the bit to fight and knock out Too Tall Jones. Your assumption that he couldn't get fights is ridiculous. I'm sure he had a manager that was trying his best to get him back into Football because he knew that's where the money was for him, but if there was a future for him in Boxing he would've seen it through. There wasn't one, and it's not because he couldn't get fights. It's because he wasn't good enough to go further.

If he wasn't good enough why was he undefeated and untied??? And how did he smash a guy out in 41 seconds that took contenders much longer to get out???

You've got a great point here. I've never heard of a fighter going 6-0 and not ending up being an all time great. Great point!

[Kalan]

He had an 83% KO ratio and 100% winning record... So why would they down grad his last 3 opponents drastically??? ... They were bad... And instead of getting opponents every week like he wanted they came once a month... That's a long time to be twiddling your thumbs waiting for a joke opponent.

[gilgamesh]

He had an 83% KO ratio and 100% winning record... So why would they down grad his last 3 opponents drastically??? ... They were bad... And instead of getting opponents every week like he wanted they came once a month... That's a long time to be twiddling your thumbs waiting for a joke opponent.

They downgraded his opponents because decent opponents would knock him out. It's not hard to understand. Somebody was looking out for him and trying to be careful NOT to see him get his ass kicked.

Any Heavyweight in the Top 70 or maybe even lower during the time Jones was an active Heavyweight would've beaten him. Your feeling that simply being tall means you'd be a great boxer is absurd.

[Kalan]

Your asininity is absurd... He fought his best opponents in his 1st and 3rd fight... He 3rd opponent knocked out his 1st opponent so he was an upgrade... Since he smashed his best opponent out in 41 seconds you get him better opponents -- because he's ready for them.

And Montes wasn't real good but he beat some top 70 opponents.. The quality of the world's top 70 Heavyweights at that time didn't come anywhere close to matching the top 70 athletes in the National Football League in income or ability.. In fact, many were complete dogs.. Duane Bobick was ranked 4th by Ring Magazine at one time.. Duane was slow, inept, super hittable, had 2 left feet, and was pathetic.. Fernando Montes hit Bobick a whole lot more than he managed to hit the 6'9" X 255 Too Tall Jones... Bobick wasn't nearly as quick or athletic as Jones and that's why.

After resting up for a year and a half after the brutality of the Too Tall KO... Montes won his next 4 fights including a KO of Meneses

[Kalan]

Being tall doesn't make anyone a great boxer... Only 1 in 70 7-foot tall Basketball players makes it to the NBA -- so there has to be some really uncoordinated 7-footers... and they wouldn't make any better boxers... but being tall, fast, and extremely athletic, with very long and powerful arms, has to be pretty unusual.

[Controversial]

And Montes wasn't real good but he beat some top 70 opponents..

Really, who had he beat when he fought Jones then?

Diaz didn't turn pro until 1981
Ali was a LHW in 1980
Villegas didn't turn pro until 1984
Ruiz retired in 1980
Kelly - haven't a clue who he is
Kruegar retired in 1981 on a losing streak

Great list.

Did Ali or Frazier ever fight any Light Heavyweights??? And couldn't Ruiz have fought Jones before he retired??? Sylvester Kelly... He was pretty good. Could have been brought out of retirement.. And who cares if Terry Krueger lost 3 in a row? He won a lot.. If he was good enough for Larry Frazier, why not Too Tall Jones? Better than the dogs Jones was forced to fight.

I asked you originally who was ducking Jones and you supplied the above list of fighters. How were they ducking him when most were retired or hadn't even turned pro?

Talking of coming out of retirement, Chuck Wepner was offered $35,000 to fight Jones, Wepner demanded $50,000 and Jones team accepted even though Wepner had been retired for two years, Jones then quit boxing.

[sweetsci]

Ed Too Tall Jones becoming a boxer was pretty big news in 1979. Holmes was even offering him a shot at the title if he could be ready by that November.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 59,3158028

I remember watching Jones' debut against Yaqui Meneses. My then 12 year old eyes thought Jones looked HORRIBLE. Absolutely and totally lacking any boxing skills.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 27,1178654

This discussion made me want to watch it again. Was Jones as bad as I'd remembered? The fight was broadcast on CBS and covered by the major media. Surely it's on YouTube... Nope. At least not by itself. I'm not going to go through all of the Too Tall Jones interviews to see if they show a clip of him boxing.

Which makes me wonder if Jones' has a team of lawyers pulling down his fight(s) as soon as they go up? If so, why?
Without the video evidence some people might look at his record and be swayed - "Jones was a badass! 6-0 with 5 kayos!"

I'm going to trust my memory and the press reports on this one. Too Tall Jones was no boxer. When he went back to football I think he even said as much. He might have been big enough and athletic enough to get through a batch of poorly conditioned journeymen, but he would've been destroyed when he stepped up to fight a journeyman lower-level contender. Like a Bert Cooper, had Bert been around at the time.

[keithmoonhangover]

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

What a load of bollocks.

That's why... You're posts are knee-jerk BS and have no content.

Just because you use a lot of words, doesn't mean you're right. Why do you keep ignoring questions? I want to debate boxing with you, but when asked to back up your outlandish claims, you go silent. What's the matter? Are you not man enough to admit that you don't have any evidence?

[keithmoonhangover]

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

What a load of bollocks.

That's why... You're posts are knee-jerk BS and have no content.

Just because you use a lot of words, doesn't mean you're right. Why do you keep ignoring questions? I want to debate boxing with you, but when asked to back up your outlandish claims, you go silent. What's the matter? Are you not man enough to admit that you don't have any evidence?

[keithmoonhangover]

Montes wasn't so great... Didn't say he was did I??? ... I said he was an appropriate opponent for somebody with 3 weeks experience making his 3rd fight.

Obviously -- given the 41 second smash-out that Too Tall scored -- his next opponent should have had a better record... instead of a much, much worse record -- and his next 2 opponents got worse and worse. So obviously he knew he wasn't going to be given a chance... Jones went a few rounds with guys so he could get actual fight night action... If you're playing football every week your body craves action. But you get a chance to play... If you're boxing a guy for 41 seconds and don't get your next opponent for a month or more -- you might not want to end it in 30 seconds and not get a chance to use anything you've been practicing in the gym for several weeks...

Rotten opponents can be very frustrating. Even if you carry them a few rounds they don't engage like a competitive fighter -- so you get nothing.. Like Anthony Joshua shrugging his shoulders and turning up his hands at his trainer after Charles Martin went down for the 2nd time in 4 minutes... It seems like a lot of fkkin' effort to put in -- running 100's of miles and training 100's of hours... all for a couple minutes of action from some dipshoot.

What a load of bollocks.

That's why... You're posts are knee-jerk BS and have no content.

Just because you use a lot of words, doesn't mean you're right. Why do you keep ignoring questions? I want to debate boxing with you, but when asked to back up your outlandish claims, you go silent. What's the matter? Are you not man enough to admit that you don't have any evidence?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Surely every bit of fun to have with this troll has seen its days? Whether it is buzz or buzz just loves it, no more kalan! Ignore the child pretending to be 70.

[keithmoonhangover]

Surely every bit of fun to have with this troll has seen its days? Whether it is buzz or buzz just loves it, no more kalan! Ignore the child pretending to be 70.

I agree that he's a troll. 100%. He knows plenty of boxing facts, but his wild delusions are straight out of the Trolling For Dummies book.

In all fairness, Buzz' replies are one of the best things on the forum, comic genius.

[hhaehre]

Was Jones as bad as I'd remembered? The fight was broadcast on CBS and covered by the major media. Surely it's on YouTube... Nope. At least not by itself. I'm not going to go through all of the Too Tall Jones interviews to see if they show a clip of him boxing.

I've seen it on YouTube, don't know why it's no longer up. Too Tall looked like the novice he was and the knockdown was no push, he was clearly hurt. He was also hit while on the canvas and a dq wouldn't have been totally out of place .

[Kalan]

You're a liar... Too Tall Jones was physically pushed to the canvas and it wasn't a knockdown by any stretch...

Jones was then hit with a smashing foul blow while he was sitting on the canvas. The referee was interviewed and they showed the replay. The referee, said "I knew he was pushed down and hit while he was down, but I didn't realize he hit him that hard.. It was a devastating foul blow.. I blew it."