BoxRec

thechump wrote:

Lennox wrote:

thechump wrote:Ruddock made a career out of the 2 defeats by mike tyson,povetkin all day long

I don't know how well you are aquainted with the heavyweights before 1990 but Ruddock absolutely anhiliated Mike Dokes, plus he stopped Bonecrusher. He also beat Mike Weaver and a host of decent top 30 heavies. Now you may think so what or that's no much but if you study boxing you realise that pretty much all the heavyweights have ever done is avoid top 50 fighters. Not many heavyweights have ever beaten FIVE top 50 opponents. Probably less than 10 heavyweights have beaten FIVE top 10 opponents active within the last 10 years. I am talking about a true top 10 opponent not an ABC one. Ruddock struggled with Asthma, that caused the Jaco loss, there was another he nearly lost as he could not breathe but I don't remember which one. FWIW I thought he looked good v Tyson. Tyson said it was his hardest opponent up to that point.

My point is after the tyson fights he made millions on the fact he went 19 rounds with mike tyson am i right or wrong?

He certainly did not make millions. His only real big fight after was the eliminator with Lennox, it was purse bids but with an equal split I doubt he walked away with much more than $200,000. I think after that loss he was finished pretty much. I have never heard a quote that you suggest as being all Ruddock was famous for, though I agree it was considered a 'good loss'. A thing to consider about peak fighters, they are not at their peak for long, it might take 20 fights to learn to get to your peak and you might have less than 5 fights at your peak....after that some fighters go into terrible decline some do retire after one or two losses.

Lennox wrote:

thechump wrote:

Lennox wrote:I don't know how well you are aquainted with the heavyweights before 1990 but Ruddock absolutely anhiliated Mike Dokes, plus he stopped Bonecrusher. He also beat Mike Weaver and a host of decent top 30 heavies. Now you may think so what or that's no much but if you study boxing you realise that pretty much all the heavyweights have ever done is avoid top 50 fighters. Not many heavyweights have ever beaten FIVE top 50 opponents. Probably less than 10 heavyweights have beaten FIVE top 10 opponents active within the last 10 years. I am talking about a true top 10 opponent not an ABC one. Ruddock struggled with Asthma, that caused the Jaco loss, there was another he nearly lost as he could not breathe but I don't remember which one. FWIW I thought he looked good v Tyson. Tyson said it was his hardest opponent up to that point.

My point is after the tyson fights he made millions on the fact he went 19 rounds with mike tyson am i right or wrong?

He certainly did not make millions. His only real big fight after was the eliminator with Lennox, it was purse bids but with an equal split I doubt he walked away with much more than $200,000. I think after that loss he was finished pretty much. I have never heard a quote that you suggest as being all Ruddock was famous for, though I agree it was considered a 'good loss'. A thing to consider about peak fighters, they are not at their peak for long, it might take 20 fights to learn to get to your peak and you might have less than 5 fights at your peak....after that some fighters go into terrible decline some do retire after one or two losses.

Well the way i look at it is different to you,ruddock rode tysons coat tails after going 19 rounds with him

Lennox wrote:

thechump wrote:

Lennox wrote:I don't know how well you are aquainted with the heavyweights before 1990 but Ruddock absolutely anhiliated Mike Dokes, plus he stopped Bonecrusher. He also beat Mike Weaver and a host of decent top 30 heavies. Now you may think so what or that's no much but if you study boxing you realise that pretty much all the heavyweights have ever done is avoid top 50 fighters. Not many heavyweights have ever beaten FIVE top 50 opponents. Probably less than 10 heavyweights have beaten FIVE top 10 opponents active within the last 10 years. I am talking about a true top 10 opponent not an ABC one. Ruddock struggled with Asthma, that caused the Jaco loss, there was another he nearly lost as he could not breathe but I don't remember which one. FWIW I thought he looked good v Tyson. Tyson said it was his hardest opponent up to that point.

My point is after the tyson fights he made millions on the fact he went 19 rounds with mike tyson am i right or wrong?

He certainly did not make millions. His only real big fight after was the eliminator with Lennox, it was purse bids but with an equal split I doubt he walked away with much more than $200,000. I think after that loss he was finished pretty much. I have never heard a quote that you suggest as being all Ruddock was famous for, though I agree it was considered a 'good loss'. A thing to consider about peak fighters, they are not at their peak for long, it might take 20 fights to learn to get to your peak and you might have less than 5 fights at your peak....after that some fighters go into terrible decline some do retire after one or two losses.

razor ruddock made 10 million in his 2 fights with mike tyson
razor ruddock made 2 million v lewis and lewis made 1.7 million

Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wasnt taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price ...then ruddock took 15 months off came back under d king for 1 fight anthony wade ..took another 15 months went back to murad muhammad and foght tommy morrison totally shot /fatt / inactive and still made it interesting ...after loosing to morrison ruddock took time off and came back with mice acrie there were talks about ruddock v tua in 99....and ruddock v ibeabuchi on hbo ...then ruddock v vitali for wbo title ....but nothing became of those so ruddock foufgt in 2001 ar 241 1/2 against egerton marcus and at age 37 ruddocks body looked good ,,,,he visciouly knocked out marcus in the 10 th rd ......razor ruddock pulled out of tons of fights with don king (ray anis/samson puha / dan murphy / poncho carter on usa / on morrison v terry andserson bout on espn ruddock was supposed to fight but pulled out with a tooth ache .....

badkatt wrote:

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price ...then ruddock took 15 months off came back under d king for 1 fight anthony wade ..took another 15 months went back to murad muhammad and foght tommy morrison totally shot /fatt / inactive and still made it interesting ...after loosing to morrison ruddock took time off and came back with mice acrie there were talks about ruddock v tua in 99....and ruddock v ibeabuchi on hbo ...then ruddock v vitali for wbo title ....but nothing became of those so ruddock foufgt in 2001 ar 241 1/2 against egerton marcus and at age 37 ruddocks body looked good ,,,,he visciouly knocked out marcus in the 10 th rd ......razor ruddock pulled out of tons of fights with don king (ray anis/samson puha / dan murphy / poncho carter on usa / on morrison v terry andserson bout on espn ruddock was supposed to fight but pulled out with a tooth ache .....

Ruddock never looked devastating or worked off the jab very well... The man didn't have a jab.. If he had one he'd have used it on Tyson -- and he did nothing all night.. And Ruddock had no footwork.. Evander jabbed Tyson very well, and Lewis jabbed him better ... Ruddock had as much chance with Lewis as Andrew Golota had.. Another guy with no jab, no feet, and no defense.. You can't judge anything from a guy beating up cheap sparring partners when he's got nothing

badkatt wrote:

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price

Lewis was just a much better fighter, even that pre-prime, pre-Steward version. People overrated Ruddock based on his fights against Tyson I don't know why. Douglas did much better against the same version of Tyson - he outboxed him, beat him up and knocked him out. Yet people somehow thought Ruddock, who got beaten twice by post-Douglas Tyson, was better.

Boxing Writer wrote:

badkatt wrote:

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price

Lewis was just a much better fighter, even that pre-prime, pre-Steward version. People overrated Ruddock based on his fights against Tyson I don't know why. Douglas did much better against the same version of Tyson - he outboxed him, beat him up and knocked him out. Yet people somehow thought Ruddock, who got beaten twice by post-Douglas Tyson, was better.

Dead right.

Ruddock was hugely overrated back then.

I tipped Lewis to win on the eve of his fight with Ruddock & my friends thought I had gone mad.

Admittedly, I did not imagine for a second that he'd blast Ruddock out inside two rounds without breaking sweat; I thought he'd do it on points, but I didn't think Ruddock did the basics well enough anymore.

He had become a one dimensional slugger who thought he could flatten all his opponents with his signature punch.

Boxing Writer wrote:

badkatt wrote:

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price

Lewis was just a much better fighter, even that pre-prime, pre-Steward version. People overrated Ruddock based on his fights against Tyson I don't know why. Douglas did much better against the same version of Tyson - he outboxed him, beat him up and knocked him out. Yet people somehow thought Ruddock, who got beaten twice by post-Douglas Tyson, was better.

I thought Ruddock was getting knocked out in 4 rounds, maybe the 1st... He was wide open and Lewis could hit like a SOB... I thought Lewis would take out Morrison in the 1st.. but I think he carried him because he was so easy to box.. It's fun to just poke and pop somebody for a few rounds.

Kalan wrote:

badkatt wrote:

Lennox wrote:Then I apologise and you are right if Razor made that sort of money for the Lewis fight. That equals a $3,700,000 Purse win for an eliminator, absolutely massive money to what fighters get theses days (25 years later). I am suprised he fought so much after the Lewis loss.

i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price ...then ruddock took 15 months off came back under d king for 1 fight anthony wade ..took another 15 months went back to murad muhammad and foght tommy morrison totally shot /fatt / inactive and still made it interesting ...after loosing to morrison ruddock took time off and came back with mice acrie there were talks about ruddock v tua in 99....and ruddock v ibeabuchi on hbo ...then ruddock v vitali for wbo title ....but nothing became of those so ruddock foufgt in 2001 ar 241 1/2 against egerton marcus and at age 37 ruddocks body looked good ,,,,he visciouly knocked out marcus in the 10 th rd ......razor ruddock pulled out of tons of fights with don king (ray anis/samson puha / dan murphy / poncho carter on usa / on morrison v terry andserson bout on espn ruddock was supposed to fight but pulled out with a tooth ache .....

Ruddock never looked devastating or worked off the jab very well... The man didn't have a jab.. If he had one he'd have used it on Tyson -- and he did nothing all night.. And Ruddock had no footwork.. Evander jabbed Tyson very well, and Lewis jabbed him better ... Ruddock had as much chance with Lewis as Andrew Golota had.. Another guy with no jab, no feet, and no defense.. You can't judge anything from a guy beating up cheap sparring partners when he's got nothing

ask mike weaver about donovans jab / ask larry holmes about donovans jab ...they sparred in 86 donovan was tiny about 215 lbs check ot out on youtube ...ruddock was helping holmes get ready for the spinks rematch

I don't need to ask anybody about Ruddock's jab... I saw the Ruddock Tyson and Ruddock-Lewis fights.. He had no jab.

Some people thought Morrison could jab beause he caught Foreman with a few.. Gee whiz, that's not the test.. Foreman ate jabs.. Many people thought Riddick Bowe could jab.. The man was a brawler with no real skills, and certainly no jab.. De La Hoya had a fair jab at best. Floyd out-jabbed him easily.. Mosley had a fair jab at best. Cotto was much shorter and didn't have the reach of Mosley, but Cotto out-jabbed Mosley by a clear margin.

I look at the stance first.. How well balanced and maneuverable is it??? Are the knees bent too much.. stance too wide.. head too forward.. Then the hand placement.. where are the shoulders.. is there any tension on them or are they hunching them? Are their feints deceptive? Is their timing good and do they try to put power on the jab.. Very few boxers have a good jab and Ruddock wasn't one of them.. Joshua, Ortiz, Usyk, Kovalev, Ward, Golovkin, Crawford, Mikey Garcia, Lomachenko, and Rigondeaux have good jabs.. Holmes had a good jab.. Cotto had a pretty fair jab for a short guy.

Kalan wrote:I don't need to ask anybody about Ruddock's jab... I saw the Ruddock Tyson and Ruddock-Lewis fights.. He had no jab.

Add here that both Tyson and Lewis were vulnerable to jabs. Mercer, who had really good jab, hit Lewis with his jabs at will for all 10 rounds. Plus he was much shorter than Ruddock, and against Mercer it was much more polished and experienced version of Lewis. As for Tyson, Douglas has shown everybody how to use a jab against him, but Ruddock couldn't do it at all. Ruddock didn't have a good jab.

badkatt wrote:

Kalan wrote:

badkatt wrote: i taped the prefight press conferance with a camcorder(quality to this day not bad ) ....ruddock 2 million ...lewis 1.7 ...and ya for 1992 thats a lot of money ....ruddock made 10 million in the 2 tyson fights .....by the way there was sum drama in the lewis v ruddock prefight press ,,,,,lewis told ruddock he wants taking a steroid test ....and ruddock said hes taking the next flite to florida ....then lewis giggled and said the test has already been done .....ruddock didnt seem to happy and lennox was toying with him ....a buddy of mine mr rainford watched a bunch of lewis and ruddock sparring and lewis was having trouble with tubbs (his sparring partner) ...and mike weaver also .....and my buddy said ruddock looked devistating in sparring working everything off the jab ....i guess razor froze ...threw a stupid lazy jab to the body and paid the price ...then ruddock took 15 months off came back under d king for 1 fight anthony wade ..took another 15 months went back to murad muhammad and foght tommy morrison totally shot /fatt / inactive and still made it interesting ...after loosing to morrison ruddock took time off and came back with mice acrie there were talks about ruddock v tua in 99....and ruddock v ibeabuchi on hbo ...then ruddock v vitali for wbo title ....but nothing became of those so ruddock foufgt in 2001 ar 241 1/2 against egerton marcus and at age 37 ruddocks body looked good ,,,,he visciouly knocked out marcus in the 10 th rd ......razor ruddock pulled out of tons of fights with don king (ray anis/samson puha / dan murphy / poncho carter on usa / on morrison v terry andserson bout on espn ruddock was supposed to fight but pulled out with a tooth ache .....

Ruddock never looked devastating or worked off the jab very well... The man didn't have a jab.. If he had one he'd have used it on Tyson -- and he did nothing all night.. And Ruddock had no footwork.. Evander jabbed Tyson very well, and Lewis jabbed him better ... Ruddock had as much chance with Lewis as Andrew Golota had.. Another guy with no jab, no feet, and no defense.. You can't judge anything from a guy beating up cheap sparring partners when he's got nothing

ask mike weaver about donovans jab / ask larry holmes about donovans jab ...they sparred in 86 donovan was tiny about 215 lbs check ot out on youtube ...ruddock was helping holmes get ready for the spinks rematch

Ruddock was a good boxer in '86.

He abandoned his boxing after flaking out Dokes & became a largely one dimensional slugger.

Boxing Writer wrote:

Kalan wrote:I don't need to ask anybody about Ruddock's jab... I saw the Ruddock Tyson and Ruddock-Lewis fights.. He had no jab.

Add here that both Tyson and Lewis were vulnerable to jabs. Mercer, who had really good jab, hit Lewis with his jabs at will for all 10 rounds. Plus he was much shorter than Ruddock, and against Mercer it was much more polished and experienced version of Lewis. As for Tyson, Douglas has shown everybody how to use a jab against him, but Ruddock couldn't do it at all. Ruddock didn't have a good jab.

Lewis was even outjabbed by the much slower & ponderous Frank Bruno too, although, to be fair to Lewis, he hadn't matured as a fighter at that point & was fighting a lot like Razor Ruddock was in the latter part of his career; one dimensional & wide open.

Lewis getting sparked by McCall made him as a fighter, because he then had to learn & utilise the basics, which he obviously always had, but often neglected to use as he was drunk on his power.

Syntax Error wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

Kalan wrote:I don't need to ask anybody about Ruddock's jab... I saw the Ruddock Tyson and Ruddock-Lewis fights.. He had no jab.

Add here that both Tyson and Lewis were vulnerable to jabs. Mercer, who had really good jab, hit Lewis with his jabs at will for all 10 rounds. Plus he was much shorter than Ruddock, and against Mercer it was much more polished and experienced version of Lewis. As for Tyson, Douglas has shown everybody how to use a jab against him, but Ruddock couldn't do it at all. Ruddock didn't have a good jab.

Lewis was even outjabbed by the much slower & ponderous Frank Bruno too, although, to be fair to Lewis, he hadn't matured as a fighter at that point & was fighting a lot like Razor Ruddock was in the latter part of his career; one dimensional & wide open.

Lewis getting sparked by McCall made him as a fighter, because he then had to learn & utilise the basics, which he obviously always had, but often neglected to use as he was drunk on his power.

Losing to McCall was the best thing that could happen for his career. It made him much better fighter