BoxRec

Boxing Writer wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Tyson lost to Kevin McBride. Enough said.

Please spare me the excuses as to why, because the ones you make for the Douglas defeat are pathetic enough. Fact remains Tyson couldn't even avenge THAT defeat, never mind the more important ones. On top fighter, gets beat, wants nothing more to do with it, unless you really want to count the deliberately fouling his way out of another beating by Holyfield.

Kevin McBride? Really? Like if Iron Mike was in his prime. LOL! Tyson would have never lost to bums like Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman. That would have been EMBARRASSING.

Tyson before losing to the great Evander Holyfield the second time around only had 2 defeats against boxers that knew how to fight. McCall nor Rahman can't teach a dam thing about boxing.

I don't make excuses about Tyson losing to Buster Douglas. I was ecstatic when Douglas won. He fought a great fight. It was an ill-prepared Tyson, but the better man won. I would not rule the possibility if Tyson was in shape, it would have been the same outcome. Yes, it would have been. Would Tyson win if prepared? Why not? Why not give the benefit of a doubt to one of the all time greatest heavyweights? I consider Tyson a legend and also a top 100 pound per pound all time great. That is something that I will never see in Lennox Lewis. He came at the right time. That's all. Tyson of the 80s never lose to no version of Lewis. I just can't picture it. You know why? Because Lewis WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH NOR FAST ENOUGH TO BEAT HIM.

Of course, Douglas was better than McCall and Rahman, and I agree prime Lewis didn't have prime Douglas' handspeed. By to say Tyson would beat Lennox prime for prime based on those things would be wrong because in such a case we look at this mithycal match up from the Tyson's side only. Let's take a look from a different perspective: how prime Tyson fought big guys? Two best big opponents in Tyson's prime period were Tony Tucker and James Smith. Lewis was much better boxer than Smith and much bigger puncher than Tucker. He also was a better boxer than Tucker too. Both Tucker and Smith went the distance against not just prime but peak version of Tyson. Both were holding Mike in clinches hell a lot of times, but Lewis could actually not only box but also hold better than them. Lennox was very effective clincher. Plus prime Lewis was 10-15 lbs heavier than Smith that fought Tyson, and 20-25 lbs heavier than Tucker that fought Tyson. That would be an additinal weight in EVERY clinch. One of the Tyson's biggest flaws was awful ineffectiveness in the clinches and his inability to stop his opponent from holding him. I think Lewis would hold him as much as Tucker and Smith did but would also do more at the offensive end. And, once again, Lewis was definitely harder puncher than Tucker and way more skilled boxer than Smith. Of course, Tucker and Smith possesed much better chins than Lennox did, so I definitely can't exclude scenario in which Tyson lands left hook or a big right hand and finishes Lewis early. But I also can see the scenario in which Lewis would hold Tyson a lot, frustrate and tire him in clinches while also working with a jab and occasional right hands.

elmersalsa wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:
Kevin McBride? Really? Like if Iron Mike was in his prime. LOL! Tyson would have never lost to bums like Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman. That would have been EMBARRASSING.

Tyson before losing to the great Evander Holyfield the second time around only had 2 defeats against boxers that knew how to fight. McCall nor Rahman can't teach a dam thing about boxing.

I don't make excuses about Tyson losing to Buster Douglas. I was ecstatic when Douglas won. He fought a great fight. It was an ill-prepared Tyson, but the better man won. I would not rule the possibility if Tyson was in shape, it would have been the same outcome. Yes, it would have been. Would Tyson win if prepared? Why not? Why not give the benefit of a doubt to one of the all time greatest heavyweights? I consider Tyson a legend and also a top 100 pound per pound all time great. That is something that I will never see in Lennox Lewis. He came at the right time. That's all. Tyson of the 80s never lose to no version of Lewis. I just can't picture it. You know why? Because Lewis WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH NOR FAST ENOUGH TO BEAT HIM.

Of course, Douglas was better than McCall and Rahman, and I agree prime Lewis didn't have prime Douglas' handspeed. By to say Tyson would beat Lennox prime for prime based on those things would be wrong because in such a case we look at this mithycal match up from the Tyson's side only. Let's take a look from a different perspective: how prime Tyson fought big guys? Two best big opponents in Tyson's prime period were Tony Tucker and James Smith. Lewis was much better boxer than Smith and much bigger puncher than Tucker. He also was a better boxer than Tucker too. Both Tucker and Smith went the distance against not just prime but peak version of Tyson. Both were holding Mike in clinches hell a lot of times, but Lewis could actually not only box but also hold better than them. Lennox was very effective clincher. Plus prime Lewis was 10-15 lbs heavier than Smith that fought Tyson, and 20-25 lbs heavier than Tucker that fought Tyson. That would be an additinal weight in EVERY clinch. One of the Tyson's biggest flaws was awful ineffectiveness in the clinches and his inability to stop his opponent from holding him. I think Lewis would hold him as much as Tucker and Smith did but would also do more at the offensive end. And, once again, Lewis was definitely harder puncher than Tucker and way more skilled boxer than Smith. Of course, Tucker and Smith possesed much better chins than Lennox did, so I definitely can't exclude scenario in which Tyson lands left hook or a big right hand and finishes Lewis early. But I also can see the scenario in which Lewis would hold Tyson a lot, frustrate and tire him in clinches while also working with a jab and occasional right hands.

You cannot beat the great Mike Tyson by just holding him and putting your big weight on top of him. To beat Tyson, you gotta have a FAST JAB and be very accurate puncher. Lennox Lewis was not a fast puncher. He couldn't move fast enough, either. And his balance was TERRIBLE! OMG! TERRIBLE!

I am sure that Lewis would not be scared. That is a given. He would be prepared. That's a given. But, he LACKED THE SPEED TO BEAT TYSON! SPEED is what matters to beat him, not weight. And he didn't had the KO punch to beat Tyson. Tyson was not going to be stopped by one shot. His chin confirmed it. It was by accumulation of punches that he went down in his prime or close. Lewis lacked what the great Evander Holyfield and Buster Douglas had:
1. SPEED
2. A fast and quick jab
3. Make Tyson pay by beating him to the punch.
4. Not to be scared.

Lewis lacked the first 3. He had the last one. He was TOO SLOW TO BEAT TYSON! TOO SLOW!

golden oldie wrote:What I think you are having extreme difficulty in understanding Elmer is really quite simple.

1. Tyson is way way too small to bother Lewis on the outside.

2. Tyson was WORSE than useless on the inside. As evidenced by the way Smith and Tucker easily tied him up when he got there. It has already been explained to you, that Lewis was a hell of a lot bigger than Tucker, and a lot better at tying people up than Smith.

3. That leaves Tyson with his ONLY proven option of fighting. MID RANGE. Some of us simply don't give him as big a chance as you do, in said option of beating Lewis.

Boxing Writer wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Tyson lost to Kevin McBride. Enough said.

Please spare me the excuses as to why, because the ones you make for the Douglas defeat are pathetic enough. Fact remains Tyson couldn't even avenge THAT defeat, never mind the more important ones. On top fighter, gets beat, wants nothing more to do with it, unless you really want to count the deliberately fouling his way out of another beating by Holyfield.

Kevin McBride? Really? Like if Iron Mike was in his prime. LOL! Tyson would have never lost to bums like Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman. That would have been EMBARRASSING.

Tyson before losing to the great Evander Holyfield the second time around only had 2 defeats against boxers that knew how to fight. McCall nor Rahman can't teach a dam thing about boxing.

I don't make excuses about Tyson losing to Buster Douglas. I was ecstatic when Douglas won. He fought a great fight. It was an ill-prepared Tyson, but the better man won. I would not rule the possibility if Tyson was in shape, it would have been the same outcome. Yes, it would have been. Would Tyson win if prepared? Why not? Why not give the benefit of a doubt to one of the all time greatest heavyweights? I consider Tyson a legend and also a top 100 pound per pound all time great. That is something that I will never see in Lennox Lewis. He came at the right time. That's all. Tyson of the 80s never lose to no version of Lewis. I just can't picture it. You know why? Because Lewis WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH NOR FAST ENOUGH TO BEAT HIM.

Of course, Douglas was better than McCall and Rahman, and I agree prime Lewis didn't have prime Douglas' handspeed. By to say Tyson would beat Lennox prime for prime based on those things would be wrong because in such a case we look at this mithycal match up from the Tyson's side only. Let's take a look from a different perspective: how prime Tyson fought big guys? Two best big opponents in Tyson's prime period were Tony Tucker and James Smith. Lewis was much better boxer than Smith and much bigger puncher than Tucker. He also was a better boxer than Tucker too. Both Tucker and Smith went the distance against not just prime but peak version of Tyson. Both were holding Mike in clinches hell a lot of times, but Lewis could actually not only box but also hold better than them. Lennox was very effective clincher. Plus prime Lewis was 10-15 lbs heavier than Smith that fought Tyson, and 20-25 lbs heavier than Tucker that fought Tyson. That would be an additinal weight in EVERY clinch. One of the Tyson's biggest flaws was awful ineffectiveness in the clinches and his inability to stop his opponent from holding him. I think Lewis would hold him as much as Tucker and Smith did but would also do more at the offensive end. And, once again, Lewis was definitely harder puncher than Tucker and way more skilled boxer than Smith. Of course, Tucker and Smith possesed much better chins than Lennox did, so I definitely can't exclude scenario in which Tyson lands left hook or a big right hand and finishes Lewis early. But I also can see the scenario in which Lewis would hold Tyson a lot, frustrate and tire him in clinches while also working with a jab and occasional right hands.

elmersalsa wrote:

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: And Iron Mike was also TOO WASHED UP. Lewis caught Tyson at the right time. It wasn't 1986. It was 2002. Sixteen years later.

That's okay... Tyson couldn't do anything to James Smith or Tony Tucker in 1987... They were big, tall, strong guys, but not good... Mike was a stubby little character and easy to hit... If they could box and punch as well as Lewis they would have punched Mike straight into the canvas -- like Douglas did when Mike was only 23.. You can't say Tyson was past his prime -- and Douglas found him an easy guy to box, punch, bully around, and beat the Hell out of.

Tony Tucker and James "Bonecrusher" Smith didn't do nothing on Iron Mike even though they were big heavyweights. They CLUTCHED AND GRABBED THE WHOLE NIGHT FOR SURVIVAL, Kalan! Survival!

No version of Lennox Lewis beats the Buster Douglas that beat the great Mike Tyson in Tokyo. No version of Lewis beats that destructible force of the late 80s and early 90s. Why? He is TOO SLOW FOR TYSON. TOO SLOW! To beat Tyson, you gotta be fast. You gotta have SPEED. Lewis never gave us that indication that he had that speed. And with that chin, he ain't gonna go far against Iron Mike. He could grab and hold like Smith and Tucker did for survival. He was big. He wouldn't be scared. But he couldn't outbox Tyson because he was slow of hands and feet. That's not enough.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Just stand up to Tyson and you win! Just ask Razor Ruddock, Pinklon Thomas, or Tony Tucker.
Lewis was an Olympic Champion, so he must have speed!
If Tyson blew out a guy it was because he was scared!
Good to know all of this.

golden oldie wrote:Still waiting for all these Tyson fanboys to give an example of a stumpy little guy with short arms putting Lewis in trouble.

However it seems the same old feeble excuses are still doing the rounds. Either Tyson was SO under prepared for Buster that everyone he ever defeated previously could have battered him that night in Tokyo. Or Douglas was a combination of Superman, Rambo, and Genghis Khan in the fight.

Pathetic.

ginty wrote:

golden oldie wrote:Still waiting for all these Tyson fanboys to give an example of a stumpy little guy with short arms putting Lewis in trouble.

However it seems the same old feeble excuses are still doing the rounds. Either Tyson was SO under prepared for Buster that everyone he ever defeated previously could have battered him that night in Tokyo. Or Douglas was a combination of Superman, Rambo, and Genghis Khan in the fight.

Pathetic.

Jean chanet he had Lewis out on his feet.

golden oldie wrote:

Give up wrote:

ginty wrote: Jean chanet he had Lewis out on his feet.

Lewis is the only and best for some people. This is pathetic.

Bothers you that along with Marciano, Lewis is the only Heavyweight to defeat every man he ever faced, does it?

golden oldie wrote:

Give up wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Bothers you that along with Marciano, Lewis is the only Heavyweight to defeat every man he ever faced, does it?

You are Lewis fan Your choice.
Holyfield had a better competition.I have more respect.
Lewis is overated for me . Marciano the first fight with LA Starza

I'm just giving you the FACTS. He beat every man he EVER faced, simple as that. You are the one offering opinions on the matter.

golden oldie wrote:

Give up wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
I'm just giving you the FACTS. He beat every man he EVER faced, simple as that. You are the one offering opinions on the matter.

I"m not impressed with this competition with Lewis and Marciano.Rematch after losing to me ridiculous. Lewis demanded a rematch but did not give others that opportunity. After Vitaly i lost all respect for hm.
View first fight Marciano vs La Starza. It is fact.

More opinions I'm afraid.

Facts.

1. Lewis FOUGHT his way into contention for the VACANT WBC title fight against McCall.

2. Lewis had a rematch clause written into the Rahman 1 fight, hence he sued Rahman and King to get a judge to enforce it.

3. There was no rematch clause in the Klitchko fight, unless Lewis lost. He didn't.

4. Lewis did NOT duck Vitali and fight someone else. He retired and STAYED retired.

Nice try, but just declare your hatred of Lewis as being that, as opposed to inventing nonsense about the man.

Keko wrote:He is not overated.Top 10 or close to this.

golden oldie wrote:

Give up wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
More opinions I'm afraid.

Facts.

1. Lewis FOUGHT his way into contention for the VACANT WBC title fight against McCall.

2. Lewis had a rematch clause written into the Rahman 1 fight, hence he sued Rahman and King to get a judge to enforce it.

3. There was no rematch clause in the Klitchko fight, unless Lewis lost. He didn't.

4. Lewis did NOT duck Vitali and fight someone else. He retired and STAYED retired.

Nice try, but just declare your hatred of Lewis as being that, as opposed to inventing nonsense about the man.

You write as a fan not objectively.
He promised rematch Vitaly. This is a fact. He is overated.

You have got things ass about face, again, as usual. You are the one lacking objectivity, but you have the opportunity to refute the facts that I posted in relation to Lewis's fights with McCall and Rahman.

If you are too dumb to realise a fighter can SAY whatever he likes but it is worthless unless there is a legal obligation, then that is your problem.

Once again, Lewis did not avoid Vitali and take an easier option. He RETIRED. Just like millions of people all over the world retire every year.

Ambling Alp II wrote:That was not what was being said before the fight. I remember this well.