BoxRec

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

manchester-mexican wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
He was getting hit heavy and clean and threw nothing for a long long time. He clearly wasn't going to go down. Did you want to see him hit anymore?

Champion, why not give him a standing count ??

It's not allowed.

And it really should be, we've seen lots of fighters come back from a standing 8 count in the past. It was a really useful tool for a ref back in the day and prevented a lot of premature stoppages, call it a 10-8 round and carry on because the fighter receiving the standing count knows he has to start throwing back or he's out of there. Although in this fight I thought the stoppage was about right, Chudinov had thrown nothing back for a while and was getting hit clean time after time. Really pleased for Groves, proper redemption time for him and a reward for his dedication and resilience.

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

manchester-mexican wrote: Champion, why not give him a standing count ??

It's not allowed.

And it really should be, we've seen lots of fighters come back from a standing 8 count in the past. It was a really useful tool for a ref back in the day and prevented a lot of premature stoppages, call it a 10-8 round and carry on because the fighter receiving the standing count knows he has to start throwing back or he's out of there. Although in this fight I thought the stoppage was about right, Chudinov had thrown nothing back for a while and was getting hit clean time after time. Really pleased for Groves, proper redemption time for him and a reward for his dedication and resilience.

Is it fair to take momentum away from the fighter on the verge of beating someone though?

So pleased for George, he deserves it.

I think Chudinov would give any of the top 168lb guys trouble. Could see him walking through DeGale

Why is every Groves fight such a monumental battle?
Of course we love those, but one day can he have an easy win without comming off the canvas or bleeding everywhere?

Really delighted for George. Was fortunate enough to see him defeat the definition of "teak tough" ( (c) Adam Smith) Charles Adamu on the Haye-Ruiz undercard and I thought that night it was a formality he'd become a world titlist. That one remains Adamu's sole stoppage defeat and he's taken both Froch and Rocky Fielding the distance. I was also at the Degale fight (I'd like to see a rematch) and the Gutknecht battle. It's taken longer than I thought but he's done it now and it is richly deserved. Seriously, can anyone list a Groves fight that hasn't been action packed?
Also, that was a great interview with Kugan posted earlier and you can tell absolutely that the tragic situation of Gutknecht still bears heavily on Groves. He bore a heavy burden last night: the pressure of what could have been a last-chance at a world belt and the psychological weight of what happened to Eddy. Not only has George Groves become a deserved world champion, he has conducted himself with great dignity.

straali wrote:Really delighted for George. Was fortunate enough to see him defeat the definition of "teak tough" ( (c) Adam Smith) Charles Adamu on the Haye-Ruiz undercard and I thought that night it was a formality he'd become a world titlist. That one remains Adamu's sole stoppage defeat and he's taken both Froch and Rocky Fielding the distance. I was also at the Degale fight (I'd like to see a rematch) and the Gutknecht battle. It's taken longer than I thought but he's done it now and it is richly deserved. Seriously, can anyone list a Groves fight that hasn't been action packed?
Also, that was a great interview with Kugan posted earlier and you can tell absolutely that the tragic situation of Gutknecht still bears heavily on Groves. He bore a heavy burden last night: the pressure of what could have been a last-chance at a world belt and the psychological weight of what happened to Eddy. Not only has George Groves become a deserved world champion, he has conducted himself with great dignity.

Top post mate

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
It's not allowed.

And it really should be, we've seen lots of fighters come back from a standing 8 count in the past. It was a really useful tool for a ref back in the day and prevented a lot of premature stoppages, call it a 10-8 round and carry on because the fighter receiving the standing count knows he has to start throwing back or he's out of there. Although in this fight I thought the stoppage was about right, Chudinov had thrown nothing back for a while and was getting hit clean time after time. Really pleased for Groves, proper redemption time for him and a reward for his dedication and resilience.

Is it fair to take momentum away from the fighter on the verge of beating someone though?

Thats a very good point to be fair but I'm thinking of cases when the referee isn't absolutely sure and just panics and ends up stopping it prematurely. A standing count gives him vital extra seconds to observe the fighters reactions, it should still be classed as a knockdown and a 10-8 so the aggressor still stands to gain from it. I'd be interested to know why some organisations don't allow it

manchester-mexican wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

manchester-mexican wrote:stopped a bit early for me

He was getting hit heavy and clean and threw nothing for a long long time. He clearly wasn't going to go down. Did you want to see him hit anymore?

Champion, why not give him a standing count ??

He wasn't the champion....

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:
And it really should be, we've seen lots of fighters come back from a standing 8 count in the past. It was a really useful tool for a ref back in the day and prevented a lot of premature stoppages, call it a 10-8 round and carry on because the fighter receiving the standing count knows he has to start throwing back or he's out of there. Although in this fight I thought the stoppage was about right, Chudinov had thrown nothing back for a while and was getting hit clean time after time. Really pleased for Groves, proper redemption time for him and a reward for his dedication and resilience.

Is it fair to take momentum away from the fighter on the verge of beating someone though?

Thats a very good point to be fair but I'm thinking of cases when the referee isn't absolutely sure and just panics and ends up stopping it prematurely. A standing count gives him vital extra seconds to observe the fighters reactions, it should still be classed as a knockdown and a 10-8 so the aggressor still stands to gain from it. I'd be interested to know why some organisations don't allow it

Well, looking at something like Castillo-Corralles 1 shows how just a few seconds of respite can change the course of a fight. Corralles was all but done, spat out his mouthpiece and after the short break managed to stop Castillo who was on top at the time. I can understand the idea of it but for me it's an unfair stoppage that despite the loss of a point helps the losing boxer, I don't think it's fair on the other boxer who is close to stopping someone because he could get stopped on the next shot after the losing boxer has regained a little composure.

Refs still have used it mistakenly, the corner came in to stop Bute but the ref was giving him a standing eight count against Froch. If it had carried on and he'd have knocked Carl out it would have been a travesty.

MarkMcBurney wrote:

manchester-mexican wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
He was getting hit heavy and clean and threw nothing for a long long time. He clearly wasn't going to go down. Did you want to see him hit anymore?

Champion, why not give him a standing count ??

He wasn't the champion....

Good point, I missed that last night.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Is it fair to take momentum away from the fighter on the verge of beating someone though?

Thats a very good point to be fair but I'm thinking of cases when the referee isn't absolutely sure and just panics and ends up stopping it prematurely. A standing count gives him vital extra seconds to observe the fighters reactions, it should still be classed as a knockdown and a 10-8 so the aggressor still stands to gain from it. I'd be interested to know why some organisations don't allow it

Well, looking at something like Castillo-Corralles 1 shows how just a few seconds of respite can change the course of a fight. Corralles was all but done, spat out his mouthpiece and after the short break managed to stop Castillo who was on top at the time. I can understand the idea of it but for me it's an unfair stoppage that despite the loss of a point helps the losing boxer, I don't think it's fair on the other boxer who is close to stopping someone because he could get stopped on the next shot after the losing boxer has regained a little composure.

Refs still have used it mistakenly, the corner came in to stop Bute but the ref was giving him a standing eight count against Froch. If it had carried on and he'd have knocked Carl out it would have been a travesty.

I'm struggling to disagree with you as you make excellent points but its sometimes a useful tool for a ref like I said earlier. In the aftermath of Froch/Groves 1 some people questioned why Groves wasn't given a standing count instead of being stopped too soon. For what its worth I still think Froch would have stopped him regardless but it would have taken away a lot of the controversy at the time. As that was also for the IBF title I presume the standing 8 count wasn't used then either and it may have deprived us all of the rematch but in that first fight a standing count could have maybe caused Howard Foster to make a different decision. Spitting out the gum shield or feigning a low blow is used by boxers in trouble to buy time, give them a mandatory standing count maybe to deter this?

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:
Thats a very good point to be fair but I'm thinking of cases when the referee isn't absolutely sure and just panics and ends up stopping it prematurely. A standing count gives him vital extra seconds to observe the fighters reactions, it should still be classed as a knockdown and a 10-8 so the aggressor still stands to gain from it. I'd be interested to know why some organisations don't allow it

Well, looking at something like Castillo-Corralles 1 shows how just a few seconds of respite can change the course of a fight. Corralles was all but done, spat out his mouthpiece and after the short break managed to stop Castillo who was on top at the time. I can understand the idea of it but for me it's an unfair stoppage that despite the loss of a point helps the losing boxer, I don't think it's fair on the other boxer who is close to stopping someone because he could get stopped on the next shot after the losing boxer has regained a little composure.

Refs still have used it mistakenly, the corner came in to stop Bute but the ref was giving him a standing eight count against Froch. If it had carried on and he'd have knocked Carl out it would have been a travesty.

I'm struggling to disagree with you as you make excellent points but its sometimes a useful tool for a ref like I said earlier. In the aftermath of Froch/Groves 1 some people questioned why Groves wasn't given a standing count instead of being stopped too soon. For what its worth I still think Froch would have stopped him regardless but it would have taken away a lot of the controversy at the time. As that was also for the IBF title I presume the standing 8 count wasn't used then either and it may have deprived us all of the rematch but in that first fight a standing count could have maybe caused Howard Foster to make a different decision. Spitting out the gum shield or feigning a low blow is used by boxers in trouble to buy time, give them a mandatory standing count maybe to deter this?

This is where it's troubling, you've shown a time when it could have been used appropriately. We may have never needed a second fight if there was no controversy in the first. I was supporting Groves that night and was disappointed with the stoppage, a standing eight count could have allowed for an actual deciding win for Froch who was the stronger of the two at the time.

For what it's worth I don't think it'll ever be back.

Really happy for Groves. He comes across a bit of a gobshite sometimes but his post fight interview was class. Was obviously emotional and his comments about Gutknecht show what type of guy he is. Really pleased for him and I think finally getting that title will definitely make him a better fighter. Looking forward to seeing how his career progresses from here.

I hope to fukk he doesn't fight Cox. That guy shouldn't be anywhere near world level yet.

CaptainSpacerod wrote:So pleased for George, he deserves it.

Same here. He's a very good fighter & im delighted for him that he's earned World Champion recognition.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Jackson328 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Well, looking at something like Castillo-Corralles 1 shows how just a few seconds of respite can change the course of a fight. Corralles was all but done, spat out his mouthpiece and after the short break managed to stop Castillo who was on top at the time. I can understand the idea of it but for me it's an unfair stoppage that despite the loss of a point helps the losing boxer, I don't think it's fair on the other boxer who is close to stopping someone because he could get stopped on the next shot after the losing boxer has regained a little composure.

Refs still have used it mistakenly, the corner came in to stop Bute but the ref was giving him a standing eight count against Froch. If it had carried on and he'd have knocked Carl out it would have been a travesty.

I'm struggling to disagree with you as you make excellent points but its sometimes a useful tool for a ref like I said earlier. In the aftermath of Froch/Groves 1 some people questioned why Groves wasn't given a standing count instead of being stopped too soon. For what its worth I still think Froch would have stopped him regardless but it would have taken away a lot of the controversy at the time. As that was also for the IBF title I presume the standing 8 count wasn't used then either and it may have deprived us all of the rematch but in that first fight a standing count could have maybe caused Howard Foster to make a different decision. Spitting out the gum shield or feigning a low blow is used by boxers in trouble to buy time, give them a mandatory standing count maybe to deter this?

This is where it's troubling, you've shown a time when it could have been used appropriately. We may have never needed a second fight if there was no controversy in the first. I was supporting Groves that night and was disappointed with the stoppage, a standing eight count could have allowed for an actual deciding win for Froch who was the stronger of the two at the time.

For what it's worth I don't think it'll ever be back.

No it probably won't but I think used sparingly its another tool for a ref assessing a fighter in trouble. Chudinov might have got a standing count last night instead of being stopped, I thought it was a good stoppage as he was shipping some heavy shots and wasn't firing too much back but would have been interesting if the ref could have given him a count and asked him to walk forward to assess him. Gutnecht may have taken a few standing counts in the Groves fight and after 2 or 3 of them the ref would maybe have felt obliged to stop the fight, I don't know.

Stuarty30 wrote:Really happy for Groves. He comes across a bit of a gobshite sometimes but his post fight interview was class. Was obviously emotional and his comments about Gutknecht show what type of guy he is. Really pleased for him and I think finally getting that title will definitely make him a better fighter. Looking forward to seeing how his career progresses from here.

I hope to fukk he doesn't fight Cox. That guy shouldn't be anywhere near world level yet.

I'm in Team Groves now. He was class in and out of the fight last night. Seems to be the real lad coming through now. Or maybe just found some humility for a number of reasons. Either way, good on him.

samwbr wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Really happy for Groves. He comes across a bit of a gobshite sometimes but his post fight interview was class. Was obviously emotional and his comments about Gutknecht show what type of guy he is. Really pleased for him and I think finally getting that title will definitely make him a better fighter. Looking forward to seeing how his career progresses from here.

I hope to fukk he doesn't fight Cox. That guy shouldn't be anywhere near world level yet.

I'm in Team Groves now. He was class in and out of the fight last night. Seems to be the real lad coming through now. Or maybe just found some humility for a number of reasons. Either way, good on him.

I was always kind of on the fence with Groves. I've been a fan of DeGale since he turned over and was also a fan of Froch so he always kind of rubbed me up the wrong way. I was the same with Froch though until Calzaghe retired then he grew on me. I'll definitely be supporting Groves from here on in because he really impressed me last night. You could see what it meant to him and his words about Gutknecht were nice to hear.

Stuarty30 wrote:

samwbr wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:Really happy for Groves. He comes across a bit of a gobshite sometimes but his post fight interview was class. Was obviously emotional and his comments about Gutknecht show what type of guy he is. Really pleased for him and I think finally getting that title will definitely make him a better fighter. Looking forward to seeing how his career progresses from here.

I hope to fukk he doesn't fight Cox. That guy shouldn't be anywhere near world level yet.

I'm in Team Groves now. He was class in and out of the fight last night. Seems to be the real lad coming through now. Or maybe just found some humility for a number of reasons. Either way, good on him.

I was always kind of on the fence with Groves. I've been a fan of DeGale since he turned over and was also a fan of Froch so he always kind of rubbed me up the wrong way. I was the same with Froch though until Calzaghe retired then he grew on me. I'll definitely be supporting Groves from here on in because he really impressed me last night. You could see what it meant to him and his words about Gutknecht were nice to hear.

Even Froch was on his feet applauding and was generous in his commentary. Think they can all see he's been through a dark time the last 6 months.

So Happy for Groves. What a tough bloke Chudinov was, just took a belting and stood up to it. You have to save a guy like that from himself.

You saw in the slow mo that Grove knew his chance was finally here and he just threw leather non stop until it was over. Love it when a guy puts it all on the line to snatch glory.

He has been through a tough time the last 3 or 4 years but kept the faith and made the changes needed. Fair play to the guy. I'm not a fan of him to be fair, but I cant deny being thrilled to see him win last night and get such a great reception

His promoter Kalle is a funny bloke. Licking his lips and sniffing like he just climbed out of a bucket full of Colombia's finest.