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Joe Joyce is a fake prospect. As an amateur, he won the silver medal when he was almost 31. That's worse than Audley Harrison, who won the gold medal when he was 28. People need to start understanding that your amateur accomplishments can't be graded in a vacuum, they have to be scaled to the age in which you won them. Winning a silver when you're 31 does not speak to the same level of potential as winning a silver when you're 19. I would say that even qualifying for the Olympics when you're 19 shows more potential than winning a medal when you're 31. Joyce got knocked out by Sergey Kuzmin in the amateurs, Kuzmin is even younger than Joyce, and Kuzmin is ranked 1200 ranks higher than Joyce in the pros. Why didn't Kuzmin win an Olympic silver medal in 2016, then? Because he turned pro in 2014, 4 years younger than Joyce did, because he's not a sandbagger trying to fight amateur children when he's in his 30's. Does anyone even realize that amateurs are called amateurs because they're amateurs?

pretty fornicating stupid to act like winning olympic medal means nothing just because of age. joyce was fighting grown men in their mid-20s at least, not pubescent teenagers. sure, age is something to consider when evaluating his potential. but it doesnt make him a fake prospect. and even the audley harrison , the apparent standard for olympic frauds, managed to win a european title and some prizefighters. thats a much better career than most hws have.

jamamb wrote:pretty effing stupid to act like winning olympic medal means nothing just because of age. joyce was fighting grown men in their mid-20s at least, not pubescent teenagers. sure, age is something to consider when evaluating his potential. but it doesnt make him a fake prospect. and even the audley harrison , the apparent standard for olympic frauds, managed to win a european title and some prizefighters. thats a much better career than most hws have.

Cool, man. So take Audley's potential, subtract the difference between gold and silver, subtract 3 years of potential, and you get Joyce. So I guess Joe Joyce will crack the top 100 after all. Maybe not the top 35 ever, though.

yep, cus thats exactly how it works. theres a perfect calculation to determine exactly how much success anyone will have. not like theres more to it than age and what medal the guy won

ValMar wrote:

dagilechia wrote:

TheBeast wrote:Brutal ko too.posted hls in the other dychko thread
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=215732

when the likes of Dychko Hrgovic Joyce and Yoka get some more experience on pros, Wilder and VADA would have hard time and a lot of work

I would mention Dubois, too.....

he has potential and he is very young, but im not so impressed so far, some of his opponents were in fact Cruiserweights, still waiting to see him vs someone at least decent

jamamb wrote:yep, cus thats exactly how it works. theres a perfect calculation to determine exactly how much success anyone will have. not like theres more to it than age and what medal the guy won

A more imperfect calculation would be to be impressed by his shiny medal and totally, completely ignore his age.

who is totally ignoring the age. certainly not me. read my posts again. i say age should be considered you doofus. joyce was top amateur for years. wasnt just fighting little kids either. hes obviously got some ability. prob wont become elite top tier champ but dont see why he shouldnt be considered a prospect at all.

plenty of oldies contending anyway. fornicate me even the useless 40 year old ustinov is is line for wba shot. joyce not out of time if moved appropriatly.

Lackeos wrote:Joe Joyce is a fake prospect. As an amateur, he won the silver medal when he was almost 31. That's worse than Audley Harrison, who won the gold medal when he was 28. People need to start understanding that your amateur accomplishments can't be graded in a vacuum, they have to be scaled to the age in which you won them. Winning a silver when you're 31 does not speak to the same level of potential as winning a silver when you're 19. I would say that even qualifying for the Olympics when you're 19 shows more potential than winning a medal when you're 31. Joyce got knocked out by Sergey Kuzmin in the amateurs, Kuzmin is even younger than Joyce, and Kuzmin is ranked 1200 ranks higher than Joyce in the pros. Why didn't Kuzmin win an Olympic silver medal in 2016, then? Because he turned pro in 2014, 4 years younger than Joyce did, because he's not a sandbagger trying to fight amateur children when he's in his 30's. Does anyone even realize that amateurs are called amateurs because they're amateurs?

Joyce also had a number of WSB fights, which are pro in all but name.

if joyce beats lewison hell match whytes second best win. maybe if joyce then gets flattened by aj hell move even further up the rankings.

dagilechia wrote:

ValMar wrote:

dagilechia wrote: when the likes of Dychko Hrgovic Joyce and Yoka get some more experience on pros, Wilder and VADA would have hard time and a lot of work

I would mention Dubois, too.....

he has potential and he is very young, but im not so impressed so far, some of his opponents were in fact Cruiserweights, still waiting to see him vs someone at least decent

dubois gets alot of hype just for looking physically like aj imo. hes deffo benefiting from ajs star. hes actually pretty lumbering and clumsy at times. not like hes fairly new to the sport either like aj was. dubois boxing since kid and about 70 amateur fights. also opponents either midgets or terrible chin like carter and howe. even gorman and dave allen stopped howe very early. they not getting the 'monster' hype.

but still, very strong guy and will get better. one to watch but not a 'sure thing'.

Lackeos wrote:Joe Joyce is a fake prospect. As an amateur, he won the silver medal when he was almost 31. That's worse than Audley Harrison, who won the gold medal when he was 28. People need to start understanding that your amateur accomplishments can't be graded in a vacuum, they have to be scaled to the age in which you won them. Winning a silver when you're 31 does not speak to the same level of potential as winning a silver when you're 19. I would say that even qualifying for the Olympics when you're 19 shows more potential than winning a medal when you're 31. Joyce got knocked out by Sergey Kuzmin in the amateurs, Kuzmin is even younger than Joyce, and Kuzmin is ranked 1200 ranks higher than Joyce in the pros. Why didn't Kuzmin win an Olympic silver medal in 2016, then? Because he turned pro in 2014, 4 years younger than Joyce did, because he's not a sandbagger trying to fight amateur children when he's in his 30's. Does anyone even realize that amateurs are called amateurs because they're amateurs?

I understand what you are saying, but Joyce is not a fake prospect. A better terminology is he's a more finished product. The man can hit, and should be a nice addition to professional heavyweight boxing.

jamamb wrote:

dagilechia wrote:

ValMar wrote:
I would mention Dubois, too.....

he has potential and he is very young, but im not so impressed so far, some of his opponents were in fact Cruiserweights, still waiting to see him vs someone at least decent

dubois gets alot of hype just for looking physically like aj imo. hes deffo benefiting from ajs star. hes actually pretty lumbering and clumsy at times. not like hes fairly new to the sport either like aj was. dubois boxing since kid and about 70 amateur fights. also opponents either midgets or terrible chin like carter and howe. even gorman and dave allen stopped howe very early. they not getting the 'monster' hype.

but still, very strong guy and will get better. one to watch but not a 'sure thing'.

agree 100%

Yeah me too

Dychko is 27... By the time he has strong professional skills he'll be 31 if he's extremely progressive... Generally Eastern Europeans are put on a slow track and kept back -- so that is unlikely.. He needs to have a Mike Tyson like fight schedule -- but he'll probably have a Artur Beterbiev type schedule..

These Eastern European boxers wait far too long to turn pro... Ivan Dychko fought an extremely close fight with Anthony Joshua 5 years ago and wasn't going to get a whole lot more out of the amateurs.. That was the time to turn pro.. Don't wait and try to rack up Gold Medals.. That's always a mistake -- especially when you're an Eastern European, can't speak English well, and you're going to be doing all of your pro fighting in the West. You need an early start because the fans are not going to turn out for you in droves -- nor will you find a lot of doors opened for you.

When Mike Tyson bombed out in the Olympic trials -- that was it for him... He had tremendous potential as an amateur and badly wanted an Olympic pedigreed... Cus D'Amato told him.. "Forget about that. People will forget all about that when you're Heavyweight Champion when you're 20 years old."

Kalan wrote:Dychko is 27... By the time he has strong professional skills he'll be 31 if he's extremely progressive... Generally Eastern Europeans are put on a slow track and kept back -- so that is unlikely.. He needs to have a Mike Tyson like fight schedule -- but he'll probably have a Artur Beterbiev type schedule..

These Eastern European boxers wait far too long to turn pro... Ivan Dychko fought an extremely close fight with Anthony Joshua 5 years ago and wasn't going to get a whole lot more out of the amateurs.. That was the time to turn pro.. Don't wait and try to rack up Gold Medals.. That's always a mistake -- especially when you're an Eastern European, can't speak English well, and you're going to be doing all of your pro fighting in the West. You need an early start because the fans are not going to turn out for you in droves -- nor will you find a lot of doors opened for you.

When Mike Tyson bombed out in the Olympic trials -- that was it for him... He had tremendous potential as an amateur and badly wanted an Olympic pedigreed... Cus D'Amato told him.. "Forget about that. People will forget all about that when you're Heavyweight Champion when you're 20 years old."

For Eastern European boxers it's very complicated to go pro! American or British guy can keep his day job at the pub and look for fights in his city or cities nearby. The guy from Kazakhstan cannot...no real pro scene nearby, no serious promoters...he must move to US\UK\Germany (difficult with Eastern Eeropean\Asian passport) and live on something(no work permission) till they get paid for fighting. And most of those guys don't know even basic English and don't have money to move!
On the other hand, good amateurs are well paid(police, post office,army) and if they are really good and get Olympic medals - they are set. And Olympic medal make them recognisable for Western promoters...so they can move West comfortably.

Lackeos wrote:Joe Joyce is a fake prospect. As an amateur, he won the silver medal when he was almost 31. That's worse than Audley Harrison, who won the gold medal when he was 28. People need to start understanding that your amateur accomplishments can't be graded in a vacuum, they have to be scaled to the age in which you won them. Winning a silver when you're 31 does not speak to the same level of potential as winning a silver when you're 19. I would say that even qualifying for the Olympics when you're 19 shows more potential than winning a medal when you're 31. Joyce got knocked out by Sergey Kuzmin in the amateurs, Kuzmin is even younger than Joyce, and Kuzmin is ranked 1200 ranks higher than Joyce in the pros. Why didn't Kuzmin win an Olympic silver medal in 2016, then? Because he turned pro in 2014, 4 years younger than Joyce did, because he's not a sandbagger trying to fight amateur children when he's in his 30's. Does anyone even realize that amateurs are called amateurs because they're amateurs?

To me, Joyce is just lacking talent. I've trained in the same gym as Joe and I don't think much of him. Compared to other guys (admittedly he was only 1 of maybe 2 HWs) he looked quite clumsy and if he was causing any trouble in sparring it was only him being awkward with this huge wingspan. I've been wrong in the past and underestimated some guys who actually managed to make some significant progress but with Joe - he may be too old to change much. Let's see but I can't see him having any better career than Audley or Price.

who was he sparring