BoxRec

Not sure how his legacy has been tarnished. Unified one division stepped up and instead of facing a nobody, fought the guy who was a legit world champion (wba super) beat him, gave him a rematch and lost a narrow decsion whilst headlining the MGM in Vegas(how many Brits can say they've done that as champ). A 3rd fight and possible win(if Carl can make adjustments) in Belfast would IMO cement his legacy more.

Frampton's legacy is just fine.

Would we rather he sat in belfast fighting WBO bums for 12 years before fighting a fellow beltholder ?

His legacy was secure when he managed to win the first one! LSC should beat Frampton imo. The Jackal taking the first fight was a great result. If a third one gets made I think LSC wins by a slightly bigger margin than he did at the weekend.

Pretty disappointing thread TBH I expect this sort of shite on CS

Framptons legacy has not been altered , he won ,in a great fight , and instead of ducking and taking easy fights like others , he went the rematch and lost , setting up bout number 3 for the decider ,, What i do think is maybee he may be a bit small for the weight , but time will tell .

A niggling doubt i have in my mind is Framptons trainer , His he a good trainer , course he is otherwise Groves Frampton , , Haye would'nt have a bar of him , there profesionals they know who knows what and who does'nt ... But I've always said you don'nt wake up one day and say i'm going to be a top boxer tomoro and win a world title next year ,, you go and spend years learning , training hard and picking up skills and knoledge .

Its excatly the same for being a top trainer , you learn form years of experience and until you have had years of experience i don't think you can be a top cornerman ,,, Shane i think is too young , not saying he's no good , i just think the success he has had has been more to do with the matches made rather than him having to plan the fights , Quigg Frampton was a good example , Framptons style handled Quigg ,, Frampton -Cruz num 1 was a good fight but not a lot of tactics shown ,, num 2 there corner adapted changed thngs around and won .

I'm not sure , Shane mcguigan has the experience to do the same , this does'nt make him a bad trainer just inexperienced enough , personaly i think he has a bright future has a coach , but at the moment he just seems to me to be a celebrity trainer , If Frampton wants his title back i think he needs to go with an experienced coach

Cruz is a quality fighter I don't think this has damaged framptons legacy providing he wins the 3rd in some style. I have no doubt that the narrow loss will be a big learning curve for both frampton and Shane, I think they will come back stronger.

TheLeprechaun wrote:He couldn't deal with Santa Cruz employing a jab and counter punching. I don't think any of us think Santa Cruz is the second coming of Muhammad Ali. I though Frampton was a level above Santa Cruz and could compete with the likes of Russell Jr and possibly rigondeaux and lomachenko. Now I don't think he beats Selby.

Absolute rubbish...far to much is made if the undefeated thing in boxing. He lost a close decision to a good former champion.

Was Lewis, Eubank or Naz's legacy take a big hit after defeats

Im a fan of Shane McGuigan as a trainer and hate fighters jumping ship as soon as they take a loss. Frampton and McGuigan however wont be parting ways and shouldnt be encouraged to do so either.

My only criticism of McGuigan on the night would have been after what I think was round 8 when he told Frampton he had lost the round. The commentary team all commented that it was a physcological thing knowing how to get Frampton going but I couldnt help but disagree. I thought he had just won probably his only clear round of the fight by changing his workrate and approach, was expecting him to be told to do more of the same as his change of tactics may have had an effect but instead he was told he had lost the round, dropped his workrate and went back to similar tactics as he had from 1-7.

(I could have the round wrong but think it was 8)

Frampton and McGuigan(s) however do make a good team. Personally if I was a fighter I think that McGuigan or Booth would be my choice as a trainer. I like the smaller stables although McGuigan might be slowly starting to venture away from falling into that category.

gazza8 wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:He couldn't deal with Santa Cruz employing a jab and counter punching. I don't think any of us think Santa Cruz is the second coming of Muhammad Ali. I though Frampton was a level above Santa Cruz and could compete with the likes of Russell Jr and possibly rigondeaux and lomachenko. Now I don't think he beats Selby.

Absolute rubbish...far to much is made if the undefeated thing in boxing. He lost a close decision to a good former champion.

Was Lewis, Eubank or Naz's legacy take a big hit after defeats

Naz's legacy did take a big hit after his defeat imo. Not because he lost, but because he basically quit boxing afterwards. A big part of legacy is showing you can come back from adversity - Naz never did that (and never even tried to). Lewis's losses were objectively much worse than Naz's (got ko'd twice by lesser fighters), but he avenged them both.

Naz's legacy will always be hurt by his loss. Badly as well.

If there's one thing I hate, it's discussion of legacy when a fighter is active. Legacy time is when he's done.

G0mez wrote:Frampton's legacy is just fine.

Would we rather he sat in belfast fighting WBO bums for 12 years before fighting a fellow beltholder ?

Are u having a dig at calzaghe or nelson or eubank or collins haha,frampton is a briliant fight he is my favourite british fighter atm and probably fav world wide. His legacy is fine like you say infact he is forever in the irish history books,first irish man to win world titles at two weights

thechump wrote:

G0mez wrote:Frampton's legacy is just fine.

Would we rather he sat in belfast fighting WBO bums for 12 years before fighting a fellow beltholder ?

Are u having a dig at calzaghe or nelson or eubank or collins haha,frampton is a briliant fight he is my favourite british fighter atm and probably fav world wide. His legacy is fine like you say infact he is forever in the irish history books,first irish man to win world titles at two weights

Oh sorry it must be calzaghe cause none of the others fought another title holder well eubank fought benn for his wbc but no one else

gazza8 wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:He couldn't deal with Santa Cruz employing a jab and counter punching. I don't think any of us think Santa Cruz is the second coming of Muhammad Ali. I though Frampton was a level above Santa Cruz and could compete with the likes of Russell Jr and possibly rigondeaux and lomachenko. Now I don't think he beats Selby.

Absolute rubbish...far to much is made if the undefeated thing in boxing. He lost a close decision to a good former champion.

Was Lewis, Eubank or Naz's legacy take a big hit after defeats

Lewis is seen as an elite fighter who got caught by inferior fighters. He was never outboxed like Frampton was.

Naz was beaten by Barerra who is levels above LSC.

Eubank is generally considered round about Framptons level. Not quite elite. Wouldn't have beaten the likes of Toney or Jones Jr. Probably the best chin of all time though.

Frampton is going to go down as a Eubank-level guy.

I thought he was better than that.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

gazza8 wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:He couldn't deal with Santa Cruz employing a jab and counter punching. I don't think any of us think Santa Cruz is the second coming of Muhammad Ali. I though Frampton was a level above Santa Cruz and could compete with the likes of Russell Jr and possibly rigondeaux and lomachenko. Now I don't think he beats Selby.

Absolute rubbish...far to much is made if the undefeated thing in boxing. He lost a close decision to a good former champion.

Was Lewis, Eubank or Naz's legacy take a big hit after defeats

Naz's legacy did take a big hit after his defeat imo. Not because he lost, but because he basically quit boxing afterwards. A big part of legacy is showing you can come back from adversity - Naz never did that (and never even tried to). Lewis's losses were objectively much worse than Naz's (got ko'd twice by lesser fighters), but he avenged them both.

I don't think anyone really holds those losses against Lewis because he was clearly a superior fighter to Rahman or McCall. In the heavyweight division you can get caught and KO'd by one punch and we take that into consideration when assessing Lewis. I was never really big on Lewis until he fought Klitschko. How he approached that fight made me a big fan.

Far too much focus is put on the zero on a fighter's record nowadays. Theres no shame in losing and if Carl gets the third fight and avenges his defeat i think his legacy will be enhanced despite the 1 on his record.

Did Muhammad Ali's legacy take a hit when he lost to Joe Frazier?

Ruthless-RKO wrote:Did Muhammad Ali's legacy take a hit when he lost to Joe Frazier?

I don't think Frampton legacy has taken any hit at all. Got to say I don't quite have him nor LSC in that sort of league though

lillywhite14 wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:Did Muhammad Ali's legacy take a hit when he lost to Joe Frazier?

I don't think Frampton legacy has taken any hit at all. Got to say I don't quite have him nor LSC in that sort of league though

Neither do I

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:Did Muhammad Ali's legacy take a hit when he lost to Joe Frazier?

I don't think Frampton legacy has taken any hit at all. Got to say I don't quite have him nor LSC in that sort of league though

Neither do I

Then you make no sense. Loosing to ATG isn't the same as loosing to pretty unremarkable Leo.

Tarkus wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:
I don't think Frampton legacy has taken any hit at all. Got to say I don't quite have him nor LSC in that sort of league though

Neither do I

Then you make no sense. Loosing to ATG isn't the same as loosing to pretty unremarkable Leo.

Joe wasn't an ATG at the time though was he?. In terms of Leo, he's a very good boxer.

Is it better to say Lennox Lewis' legacy took a hit when he got knocked out by Rahman?

Tarkus wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:
I don't think Frampton legacy has taken any hit at all. Got to say I don't quite have him nor LSC in that sort of league though

Neither do I

Then you make no sense. Loosing to ATG isn't the same as loosing to pretty unremarkable Leo.

unremarkable leo ? jesus effing Christ ! it was top level stuff from both lads, Cruz controlled the distance better this time that's all, really don't know what some people want/expect from boxers these days, would people have been more impressed if they just stood ring centre and swung hooks at each other all night ?

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:
Neither do I

Then you make no sense. Loosing to ATG isn't the same as loosing to pretty unremarkable Leo.

Joe wasn't an ATG at the time though was he?. In terms of Leo, he's a very good boxer.

Is it better to say Lennox Lewis' legacy took a hit when he got knocked out by Rahman?

Neither Joe or Ali were bonafide ATG's at the time of their first fight. They helped each other become ATG fighters.

Lewis' legacy took a major dent with his two defeats. Had he won both them fights comfortably like he should have, we could possibly have seen him fight Bowe and also Holyfield/Tyson a little earlier too. Them two defeats potentially cost Lewis the greatest heavyweight of all time tag.

Frampton will never be at that sort of level. He's a fine fighter though with some great achievements already. He will be involved in more big nights no doubt.

lillywhite14 wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

Tarkus wrote: Then you make no sense. Loosing to ATG isn't the same as loosing to pretty unremarkable Leo.

Joe wasn't an ATG at the time though was he?. In terms of Leo, he's a very good boxer.

Is it better to say Lennox Lewis' legacy took a hit when he got knocked out by Rahman?

Neither Joe or Ali were bonafide ATG's at the time of their first fight. They helped each other become ATG fighters.

Lewis' legacy took a major dent with his two defeats. Had he won both them fights comfortably like he should have, we could possibly have seen him fight Bowe and also Holyfield/Tyson a little earlier too. Them two defeats potentially cost Lewis the greatest heavyweight of all time tag.

Frampton will never be at that sort of level. He's a fine fighter though with some great achievements already. He will be involved in more big nights no doubt.

That makes sense.. He did win the rematches, which is good. He can say he beat everyone he fought.