APerno wrote:I want to push again - we need a picture of Vicente Saldivar - this guy is too good to be a silhouette. 11 world title fights, he deserves a pic: http://boxrec.com/boxer/11594
Can anyone confirm this is he?
BTW: If I come across like I am challenging or nit-picking BoxRec for every little thing missing, it is not my intention to disrespect, nor is it out of dissatisfaction, but instead it is from an attitude of respect and admiration for the effort; there is no doubt that BoxRec is now (has replaced The Ring as,) the 'bible of boxing,' the go to source for everyone from promoters to historians, thus because we love this thing, and need this thing, we all now have an obligation to make it perfect, so think I.
Looks like him to me. There are at least a few other easy to find pictures of him out there; dunno why he is only a silhouette right now (plenty of less accomplished and older fighters with a picture), just one of those things I guess.
As for his place in the top 10, I did seriously consider him but don't have the memory of why exactly I ended up leaving him out - looks more than worthy of a place today.
Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera
I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads
davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera
I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads
davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera
I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads
davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera
I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads
Miller beat Nel Tarleton twice and he was a legendary boxer from here in the uk. Miller must have been some fighter to beat Nel at his best.
Only 13 votes so far ! Sadly, in the US, as you go down in weight divisions, interest tends to wane, despite the fact that the fights tend to be much better the lighter the guys are.
It's not interest for me, just harder to do on the fly. 1. Saddler 2. Pep 3. Attell 4. Sanchez 5. Arguello 6. Canzoneri 7 morales 8 Arizmendi 9.Wilfredo Gomez.10. barrera
Agreed....I don't intend to duck this....I just need to peruse the names and sort them. I find the differences less distinct between the top echelon in this division.
BoxBuzz wrote:Agreed....I don't intend to duck this....I just need to peruse the names and sort them. I find the differences less distinct between the top echelon in this division.
I thought the top 3 picked themselves, with perhaps room to reshuffle them in to you prefered order.
But the guys from 4 - 17 on the list just now could have made the top 10 comforably
To be clearly in the all-time top ten in 3 weight classes also shows your complete greatness. It's a feat of itself. The great Henry Armstrong is an all time great fighter in 3 weight divisions inside the top 10 at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight.
I got him ranked all-time in the following weight classifications:
#2 at featherweight
#10 at lightweight
#2 at welterweight
Armstrong won the Welterweight title and then defended it successfully 6 times while weighing within the Light Weight limit. There's not a LW in History with a record that impressive.
I disagreed with Armstrong being top 10 at lightweight, though I could see a case for it - for at least some of his welterweight title reign he was a lightweight in all but name (as Seamus has just pointed out coincidentally). At feather though I can't agree with him being ranked so highly at all. He boiled down for all of one significant fight (winning the title, yes) then never came close to the weight ever again. Eder Jofre has rightly not been mentioned once in this thread but even he at least beat TWO top opponents.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions (that goes without saying) and can't be changed now but I figured it might be worthy of further discussion anyway.
It gets really difficult the lower the weight classes get, especially with only using the original 8. I put Gomez in there specifically because of his reign at 122 that means nothing in this context.
1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Vincente Saldivar
5. Abe Attell
6. Johnny Kilbane
7. Terry McGovern
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. George Dixon
10. Sugar Ramos
As others have allueded to, this is tough becasue there were so many great fighters who fought at featherweight, but only briefly. ie Eder Jofre, Alexis Arguello, Tony Canzoneri, Erik Morales etc.
Also tough because there has seldom been very much depth at at one one time in the featherweight division. Most of these guys did not actually that many really good opponents at featherweight. This makes it harder to compare.
