BoxRec

APerno wrote:I want to push again - we need a picture of Vicente Saldivar - this guy is too good to be a silhouette. 11 world title fights, he deserves a pic: http://boxrec.com/boxer/11594



Can anyone confirm this is he?

BTW: If I come across like I am challenging or nit-picking BoxRec for every little thing missing, it is not my intention to disrespect, nor is it out of dissatisfaction, but instead it is from an attitude of respect and admiration for the effort; there is no doubt that BoxRec is now (has replaced The Ring as,) the 'bible of boxing,' the go to source for everyone from promoters to historians, thus because we love this thing, and need this thing, we all now have an obligation to make it perfect, so think I.

Looks like him to me. There are at least a few other easy to find pictures of him out there; dunno why he is only a silhouette right now (plenty of less accomplished and older fighters with a picture), just one of those things I guess.

As for his place in the top 10, I did seriously consider him but don't have the memory of why exactly I ended up leaving him out - looks more than worthy of a place today.

He is!

Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera

I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads

davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera

I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads

Why hate them?

Tomasino wrote:

davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera

I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads

Why hate them?

I don't actually hate them

davie wrote:Willie Pep
Salvador Sanchez
Sandy Saddler
Johnny Kilbane
Freddie Miller
Abe Attell
Eusebio Pedroza
Naseem Hamed
Vicente Saldivar
Marco Antonio Barrera

I don't think I've posted a list that looks so different from my original thoughts.
I made a list on the first of the month and other than the top 3, that list is unrecognisable from what i started with, Arguello and Armstrong were mid table (i'm not entirely sure why they've dropped right out )
Christ I hardly knew who Freddie Miller was a month ago.
That's why I love (and hate) these threads

Miller beat Nel Tarleton twice and he was a legendary boxer from here in the uk. Miller must have been some fighter to beat Nel at his best.

I will update this within the next 24 hours.

And we are down to our last three days for this weight division.
Our table looks like this: (with everything fully up-to-date)

Crease wrote:CURRENT Scoreboard: (13 Members have voted)

1st - 123 pts Willie Pep
2nd - 108 pts Salvador Sanchez
3rd - 89 pts Sandy Saddler
4th - 60 pts Alexis Arguello
5th - 51 pts Abe Attell
6th - 47 pts Henry Armstrong
Tied 7th - 40 pts Kid Chocolate
Tied 7th - 40 pts Eusebio Pedroza
9th - 34 pts Freddie Miller
10th - 25 pts Johnny Kilbane

11th - 19 pts Naseem Hamed
12th - 17 pts Marco Antonio Barrera
13th - 16 pts Azumah Nelson
14th - 15 pts George Dixon
15th - 11 pts Vicente Saldivar
16th - 8 pts Terry McGovern
17th - 5 pts Jim Driscoll
18th - 3 pts Tony Canzoneri
19th - 2 pts Danny Lopez
Tied 20th - 1 pt Chris John
Tied 20th - 1 pt Barry McGuigan

Only 13 votes so far ! Sadly, in the US, as you go down in weight divisions, interest tends to wane, despite the fact that the fights tend to be much better the lighter the guys are.

It's not interest for me, just harder to do on the fly. 1. Saddler 2. Pep 3. Attell 4. Sanchez 5. Arguello 6. Canzoneri 7 morales 8 Arizmendi 9.Wilfredo Gomez.10. barrera

Agreed....I don't intend to duck this....I just need to peruse the names and sort them. I find the differences less distinct between the top echelon in this division.

BoxBuzz wrote:Agreed....I don't intend to duck this....I just need to peruse the names and sort them. I find the differences less distinct between the top echelon in this division.

I thought the top 3 picked themselves, with perhaps room to reshuffle them in to you prefered order.
But the guys from 4 - 17 on the list just now could have made the top 10 comforably

Tied for first: Willie Pep/Sandy Saddler
third: Abe Attell
fourth: Kid Chocolate
fifth: Sanchez
sixth: Arguello
seventh Pedroza
eighth Dixon
ninth: Barerra
tenth: Saldivar

BoxBuzz wrote:Tied for first: Willie Pep/Sandy Saddler
third: Abe Attell
fourth: Kid Chocolate
fifth: Sanchez
sixth: Arguello
seventh Pedroza
eighth Dixon
ninth: Barerra
tenth: Saldivar

A very good list, no doubt

To be clearly in the all-time top ten in 3 weight classes also shows your complete greatness. It's a feat of itself. The great Henry Armstrong is an all time great fighter in 3 weight divisions inside the top 10 at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight.

I got him ranked all-time in the following weight classifications:
#2 at featherweight
#10 at lightweight
#2 at welterweight

Has any other fighter has been ranked all-time in 3 weight divisions like Homicide Henry?

In the top ten? I doubt that.

I do not see him in the top 10 fw but lw and ww certainly.

elmersalsa wrote:Has any other fighter has been ranked all-time in 3 weight divisions like Homicide Henry?

Not in these series of threads. Armstrong stands alone in that achievement.

Armstrong won the Welterweight title and then defended it successfully 6 times while weighing within the Light Weight limit. There's not a LW in History with a record that impressive.

I disagreed with Armstrong being top 10 at lightweight, though I could see a case for it - for at least some of his welterweight title reign he was a lightweight in all but name (as Seamus has just pointed out coincidentally). At feather though I can't agree with him being ranked so highly at all. He boiled down for all of one significant fight (winning the title, yes) then never came close to the weight ever again. Eder Jofre has rightly not been mentioned once in this thread but even he at least beat TWO top opponents.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions (that goes without saying) and can't be changed now but I figured it might be worthy of further discussion anyway.

It gets really difficult the lower the weight classes get, especially with only using the original 8. I put Gomez in there specifically because of his reign at 122 that means nothing in this context.

It is no wonder that he is the best after Sugar Ray Robinson boxer of all times .

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Vincente Saldivar
5. Abe Attell
6. Johnny Kilbane
7. Terry McGovern
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. George Dixon
10. Sugar Ramos

As others have allueded to, this is tough becasue there were so many great fighters who fought at featherweight, but only briefly. ie Eder Jofre, Alexis Arguello, Tony Canzoneri, Erik Morales etc.

Also tough because there has seldom been very much depth at at one one time in the featherweight division. Most of these guys did not actually that many really good opponents at featherweight. This makes it harder to compare.

1. Pep
2. Saddler
3. Sanchez
4. Armstrong
5. Attell
6. Kilbane
7. Arguello
8. Chocolate
9. Saldivar
10. Driscoll