BoxRec

Don't get me wrong he's still in great shape (as usual) but I think that's also good lighting.

..looks more like a bodybuilder than boxer to me...

I am getting the impression that some people believe that Haye is taking performance enhancing drugs. I've seen these thread's, and Dave Coldwell, in an interview with IFL, saying that Haye "goes to Miami,gets big and comes back again". Bellew is also tweeting pictures of his regular drug tests, which reads as slightly pointed. Personally, I would be very surprised if Haye was. When he was with Adam Booth, they were very vocal about being anti-drugs, and Haye doesn't have super ordinary punch out put and stamina. He wins his fights on precision, timing and punch power. I hope it is all legit.

I must say, I really like Bellew's stance on drugs. He is one of the few professional fighters that is prepared to stick his neck above the parapet and condemn people abusing the system.

David Haye has always looked ripped, this isn't a groundbreaking revelation. He's just put on more muscle since his layoff, presumably because he's older and can't/doesn't want to do as much cardio as when he was younger.

In a recent article I read Haye said he lifted a lot of heavy weights so not surprising he looks that.

bripez wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:He looks in good shape, but hardly ripped in the true sense of the word. The traps are unbelievably good for a natural athlete

Traps are a dead give away - I have seen literally hundreds of lads in gyms who suddenly develop good traps, and it isn't all down to doing shrugs

He looks like Evander Holyfield in his HW prime with those bulging Trapezium muscles.

If I were Bellew, I'd definitely be trying to make Haye chase him, that's a lot of muscle to carry around on a relatively small frame.

Problem is, don't think Bellew has the footwork to stay out of his way for long.

Syntax Error wrote:

bripez wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:He looks in good shape, but hardly ripped in the true sense of the word. The traps are unbelievably good for a natural athlete

Traps are a dead give away - I have seen literally hundreds of lads in gyms who suddenly develop good traps, and it isn't all down to doing shrugs

He looks like Evander Holyfield in his HW prime with those bulging Trapezium muscles.

Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

Sorry if I'm being naive but if Haye is juicing won't this show up in the testing?

darkstar81 wrote:Sorry if I'm being naive but if Haye is juicing won't this show up in the testing?

Have any of the major dopers not passed drug tests? It can be masked, some have even said they are more an intelligene test than anything.

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Also, Holyfield was boxing at 190 in April 1988, and 3 months later he was 202 versus Quick Tillis. Do you think he was walking around between fights at 190? No one thinks the 160 champs were walking around at 160. The 175 champs scaling a cut 175 all year round. Why is Evander Holyfield alone in boxing history singled out as the guy who was boxing at his exact natural weight?

Tuan_Jim wrote:

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Also, Holyfield was boxing at 190 in April 1988, and 3 months later he was 202 versus Quick Tillis. Do you think he was walking around between fights at 190? No one thinks the 160 champs were walking around at 160. The 175 champs scaling a cut 175 all year round. Why is Evander Holyfield alone in boxing history singled out as the guy who was boxing at his exact natural weight?

Say what now?

You are trying to say Holy was clean and you believe did NOT take juice?!

Tuan_Jim wrote:

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Both boxers looked at least fleshy or even fat (particularly Tucker) - Following his weight gain Holeyfield looked like an Adonis

Tuan_Jim wrote:

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Also, Holyfield was boxing at 190 in April 1988, and 3 months later he was 202 versus Quick Tillis. Do you think he was walking around between fights at 190? No one thinks the 160 champs were walking around at 160. The 175 champs scaling a cut 175 all year round. Why is Evander Holyfield alone in boxing history singled out as the guy who was boxing at his exact natural weight?

Evan Fields was not natural. It is highly unlikely that Bowe or Tucker were natural either given the climate of sports since the advent of drugs. Come on man

punchoutsb wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Also, Holyfield was boxing at 190 in April 1988, and 3 months later he was 202 versus Quick Tillis. Do you think he was walking around between fights at 190? No one thinks the 160 champs were walking around at 160. The 175 champs scaling a cut 175 all year round. Why is Evander Holyfield alone in boxing history singled out as the guy who was boxing at his exact natural weight?

Evan Fields was not natural. It is highly unlikely that Bowe or Tucker were natural either given the climate of sports since the advent of drugs. Come on man

Di you think both Bellew and Haye are juicing? Is it a case now that every top fighter is on something, or is it clear from physics that some aren't? This is not an area of my expertiese, so can't really tell, unless it is someone like a WWF wrestler whose neck, traps and physique looks completely blown up out of proportion.

big lennox wrote: Di you think both Bellew and Haye are juicing? Is it a case now that every top fighter is on something, or is it clear from physics that some aren't? This is not an area of my expertiese, so can't really tell, unless it is someone like a WWF wrestler whose neck, traps and physique looks completely blown up out of proportion.

There are some physical tells, but that depends more on the athletes training and nutrition. Performance enhancing drugs do not necessarily equal physique enhancing drugs. Haye's physique looks enhanced, Bellews does not but if there were an actual test that could not be beaten I'd imagine both would fail.

My opinion is that all high level athletes are taking something. When I say all there will of course always be a few exceptions, but in the case of pro sports it is the VERY few. Think about it, millions upon millions of dollars potentially available to you; wouldn't you do whatever you could to reach that especially given the relatively low risks of being caught?

punchoutsb wrote:

big lennox wrote: Di you think both Bellew and Haye are juicing? Is it a case now that every top fighter is on something, or is it clear from physics that some aren't? This is not an area of my expertiese, so can't really tell, unless it is someone like a WWF wrestler whose neck, traps and physique looks completely blown up out of proportion.

There are some physical tells, but that depends more on the athletes training and nutrition. Performance enhancing drugs do not necessarily equal physique enhancing drugs. Haye's physique looks enhanced, Bellews does not but if there were an actual test that could not be beaten I'd imagine both would fail.

My opinion is that all high level athletes are taking something. When I say all there will of course always be a few exceptions, but in the case of pro sports it is the VERY few. Think about it, millions upon millions of dollars potentially available to you; wouldn't you do whatever you could to reach that especially given the relatively low risks of being caught?

It's an interesting one. Until fairly recently, I had assumed that there were a few bad eggs, but the amount of american boxers in recent years who have failed tests (all without their knowledge apparently) and received pathetic bans, I am beginning to have a different view. The turning point for me, was when Manny turned down a 50%, $40m +PPV split with Mayweather because he refused to take a blood test. It always seems to be that the American fighters are able to defy physics and go up weight classes and, instead of being slower and throwing less punches, managed to do the opposite. The British fighters tend not to do so well going up even a weight above, let alone 3 or 4, so had assumed that there is less drugs in British boxing.

big lennox wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

big lennox wrote: Di you think both Bellew and Haye are juicing? Is it a case now that every top fighter is on something, or is it clear from physics that some aren't? This is not an area of my expertiese, so can't really tell, unless it is someone like a WWF wrestler whose neck, traps and physique looks completely blown up out of proportion.

There are some physical tells, but that depends more on the athletes training and nutrition. Performance enhancing drugs do not necessarily equal physique enhancing drugs. Haye's physique looks enhanced, Bellews does not but if there were an actual test that could not be beaten I'd imagine both would fail.

My opinion is that all high level athletes are taking something. When I say all there will of course always be a few exceptions, but in the case of pro sports it is the VERY few. Think about it, millions upon millions of dollars potentially available to you; wouldn't you do whatever you could to reach that especially given the relatively low risks of being caught?

It's an interesting one. Until fairly recently, I had assumed that there were a few bad eggs, but the amount of american boxers in recent years who have failed tests (all without their knowledge apparently) and received pathetic bans, I am beginning to have a different view. The turning point for me, was when Manny turned down a 50%, $40m +PPV split with Mayweather because he refused to take a blood test. It always seems to be that the American fighters are able to defy physics and go up weight classes and, instead of being slower and throwing less punches, managed to do the opposite. The British fighters tend not to do so well going up even a weight above, let alone 3 or 4, so had assumed that there is less drugs in British boxing.

Sports are all about money. Insane, unrealistic amounts of money. I boxed and competed in MMA through my undergrad studies, but was friends with a lot of the football players. This was a VERY small college and every player I knew of was taking some kind of PED, most just testosterone since it's very cheap and readily available. This school had never sent a player pro ever in history, and still the temptation was too much for these athletes. The MINIMUM salary for an NFL player is $450,000 a year. A practice squad player, the "worst" players involved in the NFL have a minimum wage of $6,600 per week. When you look at figures like that seeing drug use in sports is much more logical.

punchoutsb wrote:

big lennox wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
There are some physical tells, but that depends more on the athletes training and nutrition. Performance enhancing drugs do not necessarily equal physique enhancing drugs. Haye's physique looks enhanced, Bellews does not but if there were an actual test that could not be beaten I'd imagine both would fail.

My opinion is that all high level athletes are taking something. When I say all there will of course always be a few exceptions, but in the case of pro sports it is the VERY few. Think about it, millions upon millions of dollars potentially available to you; wouldn't you do whatever you could to reach that especially given the relatively low risks of being caught?

It's an interesting one. Until fairly recently, I had assumed that there were a few bad eggs, but the amount of american boxers in recent years who have failed tests (all without their knowledge apparently) and received pathetic bans, I am beginning to have a different view. The turning point for me, was when Manny turned down a 50%, $40m +PPV split with Mayweather because he refused to take a blood test. It always seems to be that the American fighters are able to defy physics and go up weight classes and, instead of being slower and throwing less punches, managed to do the opposite. The British fighters tend not to do so well going up even a weight above, let alone 3 or 4, so had assumed that there is less drugs in British boxing.

Sports are all about money. Insane, unrealistic amounts of money. I boxed and competed in MMA through my undergrad studies, but was friends with a lot of the football players. This was a VERY small college and every player I knew of was taking some kind of PED, most just testosterone since it's very cheap and readily available. This school had never sent a player pro ever in history, and still the temptation was too much for these athletes. The MINIMUM salary for an NFL player is $450,000 a year. A practice squad player, the "worst" players involved in the NFL have a minimum wage of $6,600 per week. When you look at figures like that seeing drug use in sports is much more logical.

Thank you -that is really useful context. There is almost an inevitability about it, it would seem.

punchoutsb wrote: ... I boxed and competed in MMA through my undergrad studies, but was friends with a lot of the football players. This was a VERY small college and every player I knew of was taking some kind of PED, most just testosterone since it's very cheap and readily available. This school had never sent a player pro ever in history, and still the temptation was too much for these athletes. ...

..in which years was it?

greg wrote:

punchoutsb wrote: ... I boxed and competed in MMA through my undergrad studies, but was friends with a lot of the football players. This was a VERY small college and every player I knew of was taking some kind of PED, most just testosterone since it's very cheap and readily available. This school had never sent a player pro ever in history, and still the temptation was too much for these athletes. ...

..in which years was it?

2006-2011. Since then I've been working in the health and fitness industry and nothing has changed...in fact the amount of casuals using PEDs is going up. In my opinion they should be legalized for general use and legal in professional sports and regulated like crazy among amateurs and youth.

punchoutsb wrote:
There are some physical tells, but that depends more on the athletes training and nutrition. Performance enhancing drugs do not necessarily equal physique enhancing drugs. Haye's physique looks enhanced, Bellews does not but if there were an actual test that could not be beaten I'd imagine both would fail.

My opinion is that all high level athletes are taking something. When I say all there will of course always be a few exceptions, but in the case of pro sports it is the VERY few. Think about it, millions upon millions of dollars potentially available to you; wouldn't you do whatever you could to reach that especially given the relatively low risks of being caught?

Clearly you know your stuff and you mention that you work in the fitness industry but there's a big leap of faith from a "most of my friends at college were doing it" type remark to sweeping generalizations like the above comment. I'm sure you make the comment in good faith but like all the others who jump on the "they're all doping" bandwagon there's very little actual evidence to back it up.

You would have me believe that the vast majority of professional athletes are cheating and their back up staff ( their clubs, coaches, doctors, medical personnel etc) are all complicit even though in many cases this could lead to exclusion from the sport they've spent most of their life playing and consequent loss of livelihood.

Not only this but the many thousands of people who in the last few years have retired from sport or no longer work as support staff all loyally abide by this code of omerta.

Doesn't seem very realistic does it.

I'd be amazed if it turned out that Haye was on steroids. Never failed a test in his life and certainly won't need size for this fight.

Joshua I'm not so sure...

haye doesn't need any drugs for this fight

I think he just has that frame naturally, plus hits the weights to sculpt accordingly as he is vain

bripez wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

bripez wrote:Evander boxed as a light heavy as an amateur and a cruiserweight as a pro.

He then became mates with Lee Haney and went off grid for a full year - when he returned he was a ripped fully fledged heavyweight.

Maybe it's because he was older or did a few weights like others have said - it is really easy for the body to build lots of muscle if you are not careful ....... even though your bodies natural testosterone starts to d cline over the age of about 25 .......

So many heavyweight champs boxed as light heavies in the amateurs, including behemoths like Tony Tucker and Riddick Bowe. So not a sound point.

Both boxers looked at least fleshy or even fat (particularly Tucker) - Following his weight gain Holeyfield looked like an Adonis

Tucker looked fat?