BoxRec

crusader wrote:

WelshDevil wrote:After the Tyson, Lewis era's I hated the Klitschko rubbish. Poor contender after poor contender. Boredom. I want Wladimir to get KTFO and then ride off into the sunset.

Do you think the contenders are much better these days?

Well, they are more fan friendly which adds a bit more to the Heavyweight division. Wlad was in some complete snoozefests.

The contenders today are better than most of the fighters Wlad faced such as Chagaev, Ibragimov, Mormeck, Pianata, Leapai.

I don't really see a much improved division. Wlad victims like Povetkin and Pulev are still top HWs, Parker just barely got past fatty Ruiz, Ortiz looks old as fuckk and probably doesn't have much time left, and guys of the Whyte/Chisora standard are nothing new. In today's landscape, even someone like Dom Breazeale is very arguably top 15. By the way, Wlad fought many guys better than Alex Leapai and Pianeta (though the latter did unanimously beat recent title challenger Duhuapas!).

Are there that many exciting out there for AJ if he wins? Wilder (with his grand total of one bout against a top ten opponent) would probably be the most interesting fight. If AJ comes through opponents like old Wlad and Wilder easily, won't we probably just have another dominant champ beating up relatively weak opposition?

crusader wrote:I don't really see a much improved division. Wlad victims like Povetkin and Pulev are still top HWs, Parker just barely got past fatty Ruiz, Ortiz looks old as fuckk and probably doesn't have much time left, and guys of the Whyte/Chisora standard are nothing new. In today's landscape, even someone like Dom Breazeale is very arguably top 15. By the way, Wlad fought many guys better than Alex Leapai and Pianeta (though the latter did unanimously beat recent title challenger Duhuapas!).

Are there that many exciting out there for AJ if he wins? Wilder (with his grand total of one bout against a top ten opponent) would probably be the most interesting fight. If AJ comes through opponents like old Wlad and Wilder easily, won't we probably just have another dominant champ beating up relatively weak opposition?

Where does Tyson Fury lie in the landscape when (if) he's back to his best?

He'd be relevant, but who knows if he'll ever get back remotely close to peak form.

At this point I don't think someone like Joseph Parker is better than circa 2010 Chagaev, and he's apparently one of the big potential fights for AJ. I guess if people want to discredit Wlad, it makes sense to act as if the division is much stronger today, but I don't see it. To me AJ is the only emerging fighter who is probably any better than the Haye we saw lose widely to Wlad, and I believe that Wlad drubbing victim Pov would have a great chance of beating Wilder and Ortiz if those fights happened. It probably wouldn't take someone as good as Pov to beat Parker...hell, many thought fat boy Ruz did it.

How close is the vote on this one?
It's almost a 50/50 fight according to you lot. And if that isn't good for the division, I don't know what is.
Tired of Wilder being called a champion?
Only just heard of Joseph Parker?
Want to see two genuine heavy weights go 12 for two belts?
I do, and I can't wait no matter who wins (as long as it's AJ)

Although... As someone said, I also would love to see Eddies face if AJ lost

crusader wrote:I don't really see a much improved division. Wlad victims like Povetkin and Pulev are still top HWs, Parker just barely got past fatty Ruiz, Ortiz looks old as fuckk and probably doesn't have much time left, and guys of the Whyte/Chisora standard are nothing new. In today's landscape, even someone like Dom Breazeale is very arguably top 15. By the way, Wlad fought many guys better than Alex Leapai and Pianeta (though the latter did unanimously beat recent title challenger Duhuapas!).

Are there that many exciting out there for AJ if he wins? Wilder (with his grand total of one bout against a top ten opponent) would probably be the most interesting fight. If AJ comes through opponents like old Wlad and Wilder easily, won't we probably just have another dominant champ beating up relatively weak opposition?

It's not the quality of the division that has improved without the klitschko brothers, it's the competitiveness. Wlad or Vitali of 5 or 10 years ago would still clean up this division (Joshua included) fairly easily. It's also fair to say that the Klitschko's will be talked about as all time greats. The problem with them is that they were not very exciting to watch and towards the end the only fight that would have added spark to the division would have been against each other.

You might be right though. In 5 years time one of the current 'new' fighters could end up dominant and we are back to the same scenario. The difference being at the moment that we just don't know which one which makes it interesting. Hopefully they all start beating each other and we have some entertainment for the next few years.

In my view, it's not necessarily the quality that matters as long as it's competitive. At the moment it looks a heck of a lot more competitive than 5 years ago.

I genuinely don't mind who wins at this point as long as it's a good fight.

Like others have said, it's either a new genuine star is born or we etc to see matchroom shit a brick.

I'll probably stick a bet on nearer the time and that will sway me.

Ps I'm stealing Dr stayhumble and think the forum should get that trending on twitter during the build up

freddydoesdallas wrote:I genuinely don't mind who wins at this point as long as it's a good fight.

Like others have said, it's either a new genuine star is born or we etc to see matchroom poo a brick.

I'll probably stick a bet on nearer the time and that will sway me.

Ps I'm stealing Dr stayhumble and think the forum should get that trending on twitter during the build up

Yes bro lets trend #drstayhumble

(I say this despite not having the twitter)

Old Jack J wrote:In 5 years time one of the current 'new' fighters could end up dominant and we are back to the same scenario. The difference being at the moment that we just don't know which one which makes it interesting. Hopefully they all start beating each other and we have some entertainment for the next few years.

I don't think it being competitive is the only factor. Heavyweight boxing had an absolutely massive boom period when Tyson was wrecking everyone he fought; the major issue for me with the Klitschko's, especially Wlad, is how boring his fights often are. Tremendously effective but dull as hell, safety first stuff which, lets be honest, has turned loads of people off the sport.

AJ obviously. I would dearly love him to be the goods. If he loses to a 42 year old Wlad who was humiliated by Tyson Fury (a fat bloke who doesn't even like boxing and will probably never fight again) then it leaves us nowhere. I don't hate on AJ for his media image. It feels like boxing has never been more popular and that is because of Anthony. I bet he's a fornicating complete psychopath in real life but for now he's being smart and playing the game and making good money. I like him. Time to pass the torch.

clopixolacuphase wrote:AJ obviously. I would dearly love him to be the goods. If he loses to a 42 year old Wlad who was humiliated by Tyson Fury (a fat bloke who doesn't even like boxing and will probably never fight again) then it leaves us nowhere. I don't hate on AJ for his media image. It feels like boxing has never been more popular and that is because of Anthony. I bet he's a effing complete psychopath in real life but for now he's being smart and playing the game and making good money. I like him. Time to pass the torch.

Fury loves the sport and would be a genuine fan even if wasn't the best heavyweight in the world. His knowledge of the sport is brilliant. Boxing is popular because of Anthony? F!ck off! What a silly thing to say.

mickey1975 wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:AJ obviously. I would dearly love him to be the goods. If he loses to a 42 year old Wlad who was humiliated by Tyson Fury (a fat bloke who doesn't even like boxing and will probably never fight again) then it leaves us nowhere. I don't hate on AJ for his media image. It feels like boxing has never been more popular and that is because of Anthony. I bet he's a effing complete psychopath in real life but for now he's being smart and playing the game and making good money. I like him. Time to pass the torch.

Fury loves the sport and would be a genuine fan even if wasn't the best heavyweight in the world. His knowledge of the sport is brilliant. Boxing is popular because of Anthony? F!ck off! What a silly thing to say.

Joshua is selling out the national stadium and putting boxing on the cover of non boxing magazines. You might hate him, think he's overrated, whatever. He's doing it. Boxing is as popular in this country as it has been for ages and a lot of that is to do with him.

Fury gets boxing noted for the wrong reasons. The amount of times you hear 'boxing is a joke - look at the state of the fat guy who's HW champ.'

mickey1975 wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:AJ obviously. I would dearly love him to be the goods. If he loses to a 42 year old Wlad who was humiliated by Tyson Fury (a fat bloke who doesn't even like boxing and will probably never fight again) then it leaves us nowhere. I don't hate on AJ for his media image. It feels like boxing has never been more popular and that is because of Anthony. I bet he's a effing complete psychopath in real life but for now he's being smart and playing the game and making good money. I like him. Time to pass the torch.

Fury loves the sport and would be a genuine fan even if wasn't the best heavyweight in the world. His knowledge of the sport is brilliant. Boxing is popular because of Anthony? F!ck off! What a silly thing to say.

I've watched all of Fury's interviews and he certainly knows his stuff but I'm only using his own words, and if Tyson liked boxing (as in, the verb, as in actually participating) then he'd be doing it. But he doesn't like it and it's made him incredibly miserable.

And mate, I know you're team Fury and are pals with the family and that, but Joshua, with his padded record and his paper title, is absolutely massive. If you can't see what his current popularity has done for the profile of the sport in this country, then I don't know what to say. Don't you make a load of money off touting tickets for his shows?

I don't know Fury or his family. I've done ok ticketing on hundreds of artists, doesn't mean I like them.

mickey1975 wrote:I don't know Fury or his family. I've done ok ticketing on hundreds of artists, doesn't mean I like them.

I'm pretty sure you've talked about knowing family members and having met Tyson. Maybe I'm mistaken. You don't know anybody connected to them then? I must have gotten it wrong.

it's quite clear you don't like Joshua. That wasn't the original point though, was it?

clopixolacuphase wrote:I've watched all of Fury's interviews and he certainly knows his stuff but I'm only using his own words, and if Tyson liked boxing (as in, the verb, as in actually participating) then he'd be doing it. But he doesn't like it and it's made him incredibly miserable.

And mate, I know you're team Fury and are pals with the family and that, but Joshua, with his padded record and his paper title, is absolutely massive. If you can't see what his current popularity has done for the profile of the sport in this country, then I don't know what to say. Don't you make a load of money off touting tickets for his shows?

From experience anyone who has backed Fury throughout his career seems to really hate Joshua, largely due to (understandable in many ways) jealousy. Joshua as you say wins a belt the easiest way possible, whereas Fury becomes the man by going away from home and beating the undisputed number one at the weight. In return, Joshua earns millions and gets his mug on the likes of GQ with everyone saying how great he is. Fury gets his face on page 24 of the Mirror being laughed at for being a fat bastard in a kebab shop.

Fury maintains a regular guy, tells it like it is persona whereas Joshua comes across as a media managed robot, but Fury seems to turn more off than on due to the lapses when he changes from a seemingly genuinely nice bloke into some raving, ranting bigot.

The sad thing is Fury could have been a bit of a heavyweight Hatton. I honestly believe he's 99% a lovely guy. But his team are the sort of people who shouldn't be dealing with a top level sportsman, his promotion has been nothing short of pathetic, and he's ended up being the real champion getting laughed at by someone like Joshua.

clopixolacuphase wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:I don't know Fury or his family. I've done ok ticketing on hundreds of artists, doesn't mean I like them.

I'm pretty sure you've talked about knowing family members and having met Tyson. Maybe I'm mistaken. You don't know anybody connected to them then? I must have gotten it wrong.

it's quite clear you don't like Joshua. That wasn't the original point though, was it?

I know a few connected to them, not immediate family, and have met Tyson in much the same circumstances as I have other boxers.

dirk2686 wrote:

Old Jack J wrote:In 5 years time one of the current 'new' fighters could end up dominant and we are back to the same scenario. The difference being at the moment that we just don't know which one which makes it interesting. Hopefully they all start beating each other and we have some entertainment for the next few years.

I don't think it being competitive is the only factor. Heavyweight boxing had an absolutely massive boom period when Tyson was wrecking everyone he fought; the major issue for me with the Klitschko's, especially Wlad, is how boring his fights often are. Tremendously effective but dull as hell, safety first stuff which, lets be honest, has turned loads of people off the sport.

I didn't say it was the only factor. It's a bit like when you go on a bit of a dry run with the girls. After a while anything will do just for a change. It might be a big ugly bird but bless her, she serves a purpose. After a couple of weeks of sex with her you fancy a change again so get rid.

Boxing's the same. We just had a dry run with a boring run of champions but now things are looking up. We might get a couple of years out of this lot before we fancy something else.

The main thing is that we enjoy the moment. It feels like we are just getting the knickers off for the first time in a while and the anticipation is building. Wlad vs AJ could be the first thrust of an exciting time ahead.

Old Jack J wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:

Old Jack J wrote:In 5 years time one of the current 'new' fighters could end up dominant and we are back to the same scenario. The difference being at the moment that we just don't know which one which makes it interesting. Hopefully they all start beating each other and we have some entertainment for the next few years.

I don't think it being competitive is the only factor. Heavyweight boxing had an absolutely massive boom period when Tyson was wrecking everyone he fought; the major issue for me with the Klitschko's, especially Wlad, is how boring his fights often are. Tremendously effective but dull as hell, safety first stuff which, lets be honest, has turned loads of people off the sport.

I didn't say it was the only factor. It's a bit like when you go on a bit of a dry run with the girls. After a while anything will do just for a change. It might be a big ugly bird but bless her, she serves a purpose. After a couple of weeks of sex with her you fancy a change again so get rid.

mickey1975 wrote:

Sklar wrote:Always liked Wlad and watching him tonk a young lion would satisfy me but being dispassionate still leans me towards preferring an AJ win. Fury v AJ is what I want to see.

You wanted Wlad to beat Fury. Answer to the question- Wlad.

I did but Tyson finished him as a top level force. No point looking backwards.

dirk2686 wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:I've watched all of Fury's interviews and he certainly knows his stuff but I'm only using his own words, and if Tyson liked boxing (as in, the verb, as in actually participating) then he'd be doing it. But he doesn't like it and it's made him incredibly miserable.

And mate, I know you're team Fury and are pals with the family and that, but Joshua, with his padded record and his paper title, is absolutely massive. If you can't see what his current popularity has done for the profile of the sport in this country, then I don't know what to say. Don't you make a load of money off touting tickets for his shows?

From experience anyone who has backed Fury throughout his career seems to really hate Joshua, largely due to (understandable in many ways) jealousy. Joshua as you say wins a belt the easiest way possible, whereas Fury becomes the man by going away from home and beating the undisputed number one at the weight. In return, Joshua earns millions and gets his mug on the likes of GQ with everyone saying how great he is. Fury gets his face on page 24 of the Mirror being laughed at for being a fat bastard in a kebab shop.

Fury maintains a regular guy, tells it like it is persona whereas Joshua comes across as a media managed robot, but Fury seems to turn more off than on due to the lapses when he changes from a seemingly genuinely nice bloke into some raving, ranting bigot.

The sad thing is Fury could have been a bit of a heavyweight Hatton. I honestly believe he's 99% a lovely guy. But his team are the sort of people who shouldn't be dealing with a top level sportsman, his promotion has been nothing short of pathetic, and he's ended up being the real champion getting laughed at by someone like Joshua.

Thats a really good post

I'd like to see Wlad win in an up and down battle where both come out looking good. And then AJ KOs him early in the rematch.

Klit gets his last big win and then sent off in to the sunset with the subsequent loss. AJ survives the disaster of losing the first fight because it was competitive, but ultimately takes over the heavyweight mantle for future fights with Fury, Wilder etc.

It is best for the division that AJ carries on the mantle going forward, but I would like to see the hype slowed down a little.

JimJim2009 wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:I've watched all of Fury's interviews and he certainly knows his stuff but I'm only using his own words, and if Tyson liked boxing (as in, the verb, as in actually participating) then he'd be doing it. But he doesn't like it and it's made him incredibly miserable.

And mate, I know you're team Fury and are pals with the family and that, but Joshua, with his padded record and his paper title, is absolutely massive. If you can't see what his current popularity has done for the profile of the sport in this country, then I don't know what to say. Don't you make a load of money off touting tickets for his shows?

From experience anyone who has backed Fury throughout his career seems to really hate Joshua, largely due to (understandable in many ways) jealousy. Joshua as you say wins a belt the easiest way possible, whereas Fury becomes the man by going away from home and beating the undisputed number one at the weight. In return, Joshua earns millions and gets his mug on the likes of GQ with everyone saying how great he is. Fury gets his face on page 24 of the Mirror being laughed at for being a fat bastard in a kebab shop.

Fury maintains a regular guy, tells it like it is persona whereas Joshua comes across as a media managed robot, but Fury seems to turn more off than on due to the lapses when he changes from a seemingly genuinely nice bloke into some raving, ranting bigot.

The sad thing is Fury could have been a bit of a heavyweight Hatton. I honestly believe he's 99% a lovely guy. But his team are the sort of people who shouldn't be dealing with a top level sportsman, his promotion has been nothing short of pathetic, and he's ended up being the real champion getting laughed at by someone like Joshua.

Thats a really good post

AJ. I really don't want to go back to Wladimir as Champion and his boring, boring title defenses.