BoxRec

I fucken loved Joe

Very good fighter, but his legacy suffers from not having fought enough of the top fighters in their prime.

Endless WBO defenses at home meant for much of his career you might consider he was a "British World Champion"... rather than "the main man".

Think I've told this story before, but I worked in a cocktail bar when I was a student and once served Joe Calzaghe a Pineapple Bacardi Breezer. Must admit I was disappointed with his selection.

samwbr wrote:Calzaghe vacated when Froch was made his mandatory didnt he?

Yes, as I remember it.

Crease wrote:

samwbr wrote:Calzaghe vacated when Froch was made his mandatory didnt he?

Yes, as I remember it.

After Joe had already fought Hopkins at 175.

Counter-puncher wrote:Reviewing a fighters career having actually watched more han two of his fights, now there's an innovative idea. It's crazy but it might just catch on

It may help.

Kalan has been my favourite so far, he's a well known trainer allegedly, but he talked some shit about Joe's career.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Reviewing a fighters career having actually watched more han two of his fights, now there's an innovative idea. It's crazy but it might just catch on

It may help.

Kalan has been my favourite so far, he's a well known trainer allegedly, but he talked some poo about Joe's career.

The horrificality of him insisting Froch Calzaghe was a stadium fight before Froch had a world title was mental, I couldn't deal with it

I think he's generally held in about the right way. Broadly speaking as someone whose rated highly with tremendous achievements, but there will always be holes in his resume

The biggest hole being the lack of American opponents. There are actually a number of good names, wood hall and Reid etc on his cv... but there were massive American fights out there for him earlier than he got them... Roy, Hopkins, possibly Toney. He certainly wouldn't have beaten peak Roy imo. Toney would give him huge problems but it's possible to hustle him by volume. Hopkins could be beaten he didn't hit a top top top level like Roy but stayed really good for ages.

His best performance was Lacey for domination

His best win imo was Hopkins. Despite Hopkins being old I believe he was still at a good level when they fought. He'd beaten target prior and pavlik after. They are two of Hopkins best ever wins. People go on about frochs cv being better, but who does froch have on his cv that's better than the Hopkins win? Froch had wha seems like a more willing attitude to take fights, but they level of his opponents get blown up too high imo

Ossyrules wrote:I think he's generally held in about the right way. Broadly speaking as someone whose rated highly with tremendous achievements, but there will always be holes in his resume

The biggest hole being the lack of American opponents. There are actually a number of good names, wood hall and Reid etc on his cv... but there were massive American fights out there for him earlier than he got them... Roy, Hopkins, possibly Toney. He certainly wouldn't have beaten peak Roy imo. Toney would give him huge problems but it's possible to hustle him by volume. Hopkins could be beaten he didn't hit a top top top level like Roy but stayed really good for ages.

His best performance was Lacey for domination

His best win imo was Hopkins. Despite Hopkins being old I believe he was still at a good level when they fought. He'd beaten target prior and pavlik after. They are two of Hopkins best ever wins. People go on about frochs cv being better, but who does froch have on his cv that's better than the Hopkins win? Froch had wha seems like a more willing attitude to take fights, but they level of his opponents get blown up too high imo

Toney hasn't weighed 168 since 1994, and was fighting at crusierweight when Joe bear Eubank. It was never on the cards.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:I think he's generally held in about the right way. Broadly speaking as someone whose rated highly with tremendous achievements, but there will always be holes in his resume

The biggest hole being the lack of American opponents. There are actually a number of good names, wood hall and Reid etc on his cv... but there were massive American fights out there for him earlier than he got them... Roy, Hopkins, possibly Toney. He certainly wouldn't have beaten peak Roy imo. Toney would give him huge problems but it's possible to hustle him by volume. Hopkins could be beaten he didn't hit a top top top level like Roy but stayed really good for ages.

His best performance was Lacey for domination

His best win imo was Hopkins. Despite Hopkins being old I believe he was still at a good level when they fought. He'd beaten target prior and pavlik after. They are two of Hopkins best ever wins. People go on about frochs cv being better, but who does froch have on his cv that's better than the Hopkins win? Froch had wha seems like a more willing attitude to take fights, but they level of his opponents get blown up too high imo

Toney hasn't weighed 168 since 1994, and was fighting at crusierweight when Joe bear Eubank. It was never on the cards.

Apologies, without looking it up I had it in my head Toney was still around light heavy 97/98 ish. Albeit that's still a division above early in calzaghe championship reign so not overly realistic.

The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

samwbr wrote:The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

Boxerbeetle wrote:Think I've told this story before, but I worked in a cocktail bar when I was a student and once served Joe Calzaghe a Pineapple Bacardi Breezer. Must admit I was disappointed with his selection.

I didn't know they made such a thing Did he use a straw to drink it?

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

He traveled to Germany and Denmark

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

He traveled to Germany and Denmark

Very easily done from the UK without flying. Did he definitely fly? I don't know.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:The scared of flying thing annoyed me, it was clearly a load of bollocks.

Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He's up there and it seems like I'm having a dig but I think there was more could have done to cement his spot.

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote: It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He's up there and it seems like I'm having a dig but I think there was more could have done to cement his spot.

Yes of course, but who do you consider better at the weight? I'm sure I can pull their resume apart too.

About right for me. In the U.K. he's widely considered post war #2 behind Lennox which is about right.

Maybe under-rated stateside though.

He was only a couple of fights away from being something legendary but he didn't have a huge career defining fight.
Lacy and Kessler are good wins but don't fall under great wins.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He's up there and it seems like I'm having a dig but I think there was more could have done to cement his spot.

Yes of course, but who do you consider better at the weight? I'm sure I can pull their resume apart too.

The question here is whether he should have stayed at 168 for so long fighting people like Salem, Pudwill and Ashira in fights nobody was bothered about, or moved division. An abiding memory of the Calzaghe days was Joe acting like the WBO super middleweight title was some absolute boxing holy grail.

People talk about him having a lack of opponents. Well, he fought Hopkins. Hopkins fought Pavlik, Dawson, Johnson, Taylor, Tarver and Pascal. Joe fought none of them. He could have gone to 175 years earlier and fought Johnson, Woods or a Jones who wasn't completely shot. Stump up the money and get a fight with Ottke or Beyer made earlier in his reign. His legacy could have been fantastic; I certainly don't buy the no decent opposition available line.

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He's up there and it seems like I'm having a dig but I think there was more could have done to cement his spot.

Yes of course, but who do you consider better at the weight? I'm sure I can pull their resume apart too.

It can be done to anyone, ask Horse.

dirk2686 wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote: He's up there and it seems like I'm having a dig but I think there was more could have done to cement his spot.

Yes of course, but who do you consider better at the weight? I'm sure I can pull their resume apart too.

The question here is whether he should have stayed at 168 for so long fighting people like Salem, Pudwill and Ashira in fights nobody was bothered about, or moved division. An abiding memory of the Calzaghe days was Joe acting like the WBO super middleweight title was some absolute boxing holy grail.

People talk about him having a lack of opponents. Well, he fought Hopkins. Hopkins fought Pavlik, Dawson, Johnson, Taylor, Tarver and Pascal. Joe fought none of them. He could have gone to 175 years earlier and fought Johnson, Woods or a Jones who wasn't completely shot. Stump up the money and get a fight with Ottke or Beyer made earlier in his reign. His legacy could have been fantastic; I certainly don't buy the no decent opposition available line.

Your argument is all wrong. Take into account the timing of all these fights, and aside from Johnson and arguably Dawson they were never going to happen. I mean why would Calzaghe fight Tarber after he beat Hopkins? Why would he ever have entertained Pascal?

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Why?

When he eventually fought jones and Hopkins he was at a level where the money was far more worthwhile, you can judge that but I'd rather get on a plane for a good few mill than what he would have gotten a few years prior.

It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He has the best SMW legacy, but what Roy did to Toney in 12 rounds is a better feat than anything Calzaghe did to any other opponent. He would not beat peak Roy imo

I like Calzaghe but it's no coincidence his cv is always bought up when discussing his legend. Fear of flying or not, the biggest fights weren't fought in his career.

Ossyrules wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

samwbr wrote: It's the reason why there are question marks over his career for me, he was avoiding people. He was very good but not the ATG he has become in retirement.

I'd consider him one of the best SMW of all time, if not the best. Wouldn't you?

He has the best SMW legacy, but what Roy did to Toney in 12 rounds is a better feat than anything Calzaghe did to any other opponent. He would not beat peak Roy imo

I like Calzaghe but it's no coincidence his cv is always bought up when discussing his legend. Fear of flying or not, the biggest fights weren't fought in his career.

I wouldn't argue differently regarding Jones-Toney, but Jones' time at SMW is so short it's hard for me to rate him highly there. I'd fancy Calzaghe against Toney, the workrate for me would win it. Toney is dangerous but lazy and I'd fancy Calzaghe's volume to outpoint him.