BoxRec

Oiky wrote:Brook still beats Khan from one end of the ring to the other, Khan knows that, his team knows that.

Forget records, forget who's been pro longer or any of that, khan will not pen a deal to fight brook, despite his "record". When it comes to Khan "records are for dj's" comes to mind. Whatever it looks like on paper, Khan would still get sparked on fight night

As things stand Khan's record makes him the greater fighter.

You claiming that Brook would whoop him is just talk.

freddydoesdallas wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:Can someone explain why Khan didn't deserve a fight with Mayweather but Maidana, Ortiz, Guerrero and Berto did? And while we're at it, if his 'hanging around for undeserved fights' includes Pacquiao, can someone again tell me why Khan didn't but Algieri did?

Not saying it's the best record going but you have to be fair to Khan.

The key to this part is the fighters you have mentioned wouldn't have been expecting anywhere near the financial reward Khan was expecting. They fully recognised they were the b side and would get a short percentage. Khan wanted a significant chunk.

Amir saw what Hatton took from mayweather and, understandably, wanted the same. The difference was that Hatton brought a lot more to the table reputation wide, fan wise and crucially , financially. Plus he slipped mayweather a bit of a Mickley with regards to UK ppv

Any evidence of any of this?

Bricks wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:Can someone explain why Khan didn't deserve a fight with Mayweather but Maidana, Ortiz, Guerrero and Berto did? And while we're at it, if his 'hanging around for undeserved fights' includes Pacquiao, can someone again tell me why Khan didn't but Algieri did?

Not saying it's the best record going but you have to be fair to Khan.

Because the others didnt make out it was a superfight between two equal superstars and they deserved vast sums of money.maidana ,guerrero and berto even ortiz had done far more to be deserving.....algieri was just cannon fodder and he didnt sell it as the fight of the century.....khan had done nothing...apart from beat a alexander who had already been finished by porter...he had lost to peterson and garcia been floored by diaz struggled with collazo,plus his ego was annoying to floyd and manny and their teams....now khan has been blitzed in his last fight but somehow that earns a fight with pac? At least the others were active khan has been inactive.....a b level guy who adopts a mayweather pac schedule of one or two fights a year

This, is barely comprehensible.

dirk2686 wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:Can someone explain why Khan didn't deserve a fight with Mayweather but Maidana, Ortiz, Guerrero and Berto did? And while we're at it, if his 'hanging around for undeserved fights' includes Pacquiao, can someone again tell me why Khan didn't but Algieri did?

Not saying it's the best record going but you have to be fair to Khan.

The key to this part is the fighters you have mentioned wouldn't have been expecting anywhere near the financial reward Khan was expecting. They fully recognised they were the b side and would get a short percentage. Khan wanted a significant chunk.

Amir saw what Hatton took from mayweather and, understandably, wanted the same. The difference was that Hatton brought a lot more to the table reputation wide, fan wise and crucially , financially. Plus he slipped mayweather a bit of a Mickley with regards to UK ppv

Any evidence of any of this?

Evidence of which part specifically?

Just to add, the figures released for the opponents you mentioned are Berto $4m, Maidana $3.2m, Ortiz $2m and Guerrero $3m.

Do you think Khan would have been happy with that figure and not getting the UK ppv split? Mayweather can always point out that he's done better UK ppv figures than Khan (Hatton & Pacquiao).

There's nothing wrong with trying to get paid as much as possible but when you go to high you can get burnt

Stuarty30 wrote:

Horse wrote:

Loynesy wrote:Horse - if someone said oil was black, would you try and claim it was white?

The post was an irreverent look at Khan's recent career, which is, at best, shambolic and disjointed.

Khan shouldn't be treated irreverently.

Khan deserves far more respect than he gets. He has an excellent record.

Amir Khan

Marcos Maidana
Andriy Kotelnik
Zab Judah
Paulie Malignaggi
Devon Alexander
Luis Collazo
Lamont Peterson - (Lost)
Chris Algieri
Julio Diaz
Paul McCloskey

Most of them are second rate. Algieri and Diaz arguably beat him!

How many great wins does Brook have though? Brook has beaten Porter and thats it.

Horse wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:G is a much better and dangerous fighter, hence why Canelo has spent years ducking him, Khan would not be able to take the shots that Brook did, this has been proven over and over, also he beats Spence it beats any win Khan has had for a long long time.

I don't think that Golovkin is much better than Alvarez.

Golovkin is a vastly overrated fighter and Alvarez is starting to be a significantly underrated fighter.

Such a shame Canelo and his team don't feel like that.

A fighter floats with the idea of fighting in a different sport ,, Err can't really see whats wrong here , Nobody on here calling Mgregoer a dick is there , or even worse Mayweather thinking of taking him on i the biggest circus act since Ali fought that wrestler

A fighter expressing his disappointment at familly and freinds ripping him off , whilst admitting he is uneducated , and was to busy boxing to be bothered getting educated , and believing he could trust his better educated familly and freinds ,, can't really see anything wrong there

I think with his expensive life style and wife , you will find Khan is going to be one of them bad luck stories , he's probably relizing he's been badly advised , and ripped of finacially and of course he's desperate for another couple of big paydays , he needs to keep his wife in Botox , and he's probaly counting how many thousands he'll have left when she takes him for his last couple of million .

Sad case really , Here he is 17 on top of the world and does'nt know any better than to let his familly and freinds look after his money , later on marries a educated Bimbo , who obviously looks at him and says there ripping you off , let me handle the money , so he falls out with his familly and freinds , , Later on down the track after the lavish lifestyle starts to fade he'll still have a house in Bolton but a wife that disapeared with his money to buy more Botox , and yo will see a sad old Amir , sat wondering WHAT WENT WRONG .

I used to like Khan but the whole Kell Brook thing frustrates me.

I feel like what was a world title winning career has been derailed and he doesn't play the game properly now re rankings and trying to get a belt, just hanging about for the biggest paying fights. I understand that they should be paid very well but I think it's at the expense of any sort of plan in his career last few years

dirk2686 wrote:

Bricks wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:Can someone explain why Khan didn't deserve a fight with Mayweather but Maidana, Ortiz, Guerrero and Berto did? And while we're at it, if his 'hanging around for undeserved fights' includes Pacquiao, can someone again tell me why Khan didn't but Algieri did?

Not saying it's the best record going but you have to be fair to Khan.

Because the others didnt make out it was a superfight between two equal superstars and they deserved vast sums of money.maidana ,guerrero and berto even ortiz had done far more to be deserving.....algieri was just cannon fodder and he didnt sell it as the fight of the century.....khan had done nothing...apart from beat a alexander who had already been finished by porter...he had lost to peterson and garcia been floored by diaz struggled with collazo,plus his ego was annoying to floyd and manny and their teams....now khan has been blitzed in his last fight but somehow that earns a fight with pac? At least the others were active khan has been inactive.....a b level guy who adopts a mayweather pac schedule of one or two fights a year

This, is barely comprehensible.

Do not blame me for your father made u work in uncle randys hardware store in wisconsin rather than send you to school to learn English its not my fault.if i could draw it in crayons for ya i would

Horse wrote:

Oiky wrote:Brook still beats Khan from one end of the ring to the other, Khan knows that, his team knows that.

Forget records, forget who's been pro longer or any of that, khan will not pen a deal to fight brook, despite his "record". When it comes to Khan "records are for dj's" comes to mind. Whatever it looks like on paper, Khan would still get sparked on fight night

As things stand Khan's record makes him the greater fighter.

You claiming that Brook would whoop him is just talk.

Yes, at the minute it is just talk

But my opinion is Khan doesn't want it

And if the fight was made I fancy brook to win by stoppage

freddydoesdallas wrote:Evidence of which part specifically?

That Khan expected more than the other fighters mentioned.

The fact is that when people say Khan sat around waiting for a fight he didn't deserve, other fights who were at very best on the same level Khan was at actually got that fight. Mayweather can't fight Canelo or Pacquaio every time, and when Khan sees Floyd fighting Berto (surely a massive let down for all concerned), Ortiz (who had lost to Maidana who Khan had beaten), Maidana (who Khan had beaten) and Maidana again (rinse and repeat), you surely have to accept that in and among that group Khan himself wouldn't stand out as being the odd man out.

Point is, it seems churlish to berate Khan for trying to get the biggest opponent in all of boxing when he had the chance to, and when that fight really didn't seem that unlikely. If you can show me any evidence that the fight didn't happen because Khan wanted too much money fair enough. But I'm not sure you can.

From a personal point of view if I was a professional boxer I wouldn't give a gnats chuff about what fight the fans wanted to see, the aim is to make money and if you can make that money fighting less than taxing opponents or fighters who are a big name but are faded past their best then that's what you do. If I'm making 2 million per fight and there's a guy in my division who's an absolute wrecking ball of a fighter then I want 10 fornicating mill for fighting him, maximise my earnings and if the fight doesn't come off because of pricing myself out then I'll take another 5 easier fights earning 2 million. If Mr Hardcore isn't happy he can vote by not paying to watch me but if there's 10 million casuals who want to watch me, it's not going to be a big loss.

Don't get me wrong, as a fan of boxing I like to see see competitive fights between top class fighters but then I also understand why they don't happen.

banjo wrote:From a personal point of view if I was a professional boxer I wouldn't give a gnats chuff about what fight the fans wanted to see, the aim is to make money and if you can make that money fighting less than taxing opponents or fighters who are a big name but are faded past their best then that's what you do. If I'm making 2 million per fight and there's a guy in my division who's an absolute wrecking ball of a fighter then I want 10 effing mill for fighting him, maximise my earnings and if the fight doesn't come off because of pricing myself out then I'll take another 5 easier fights earning 2 million. If Mr Hardcore isn't happy he can vote by not paying to watch me but if there's 10 million casuals who want to watch me, it's not going to be a big loss.

Don't get me wrong, as a fan of boxing I like to see see competitive fights between top class fighters but then I also understand why they don't happen.

There's more to life than money.

I've just read the entire thread and find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with Horse.

I'm going for a lie down.

Bricks wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing ... regor.html

We had two bleedin years of his lies about money-khan was the fight the world was holding its breath for and " people will forever wonder what would happen if Amir Khan fought floyd mayweather" than we had the money grab with canelo, than the chasing of a 79 year old manny, now hes trying to jump the queue to a underserved money fight with Mcgregor.......the guy is shameless he has been knocked out 4 times , and in a decade of fighting hes beaten a grand total of two top ten 140-147 lbs fighters..............at this point he should consider himself lucky to be in the reckoning for a brook fight but no.......khan wants the A list....but has done nothing to earn it

Khan got my respect your kidding mate

Horse wrote:

Loynesy wrote:Horse

I am not moving any goalposts, and you brought in an unnecessary comparison with Golovkin.

You presented a list of fighters as though it was a tableau to greatness. I merely asked how well regarded they were at the time Amir fought them.

I'm not picking a fight, as I said previously, I genuinely admire Khan for his cash generation, and the times I've met him, he has been charming.

You spoke about only beating 3 top 5 ranked fighters like it was no big deal.

But that is roughly the amount that most of the top 10 P4Pers have beaten.

Loynesy wrote:But he's not a British great.

That depends on were the line is drawn on who is great or not.

He's certainly in the British top 100 ATG list.

Name the other 99 British ATG list then horse

Syntax Error wrote:

Horse wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:Horse, you're making the fatal mistake that many people on forums like this make; that is, claiming their opinion is a fact.

It is a fact that Amir Khan is a human being; it is your opinion that he has the best record of any British fighter of the last decade.

No, it is not my opinion that he has the best record of any British fighter in the last decade. Froch has a better record.

It is, however, a fact that he has one of the best records of any British fighter in the last decade.

Fair point; I misread what you said.

I agree that Froch has the best resume of any British fighter in the last 10 years, by far.

Think froch has the best resume of ANY british fighter ever tbh only because of a contracted super 6

I like Khan. I think some off the criticism he's receiving on here is fair enough though.

But I'm still a fan of his.

freddydoesdallas wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:
The key to this part is the fighters you have mentioned wouldn't have been expecting anywhere near the financial reward Khan was expecting. They fully recognised they were the b side and would get a short percentage. Khan wanted a significant chunk.

Amir saw what Hatton took from mayweather and, understandably, wanted the same. The difference was that Hatton brought a lot more to the table reputation wide, fan wise and crucially , financially. Plus he slipped mayweather a bit of a Mickley with regards to UK ppv

Any evidence of any of this?

Evidence of which part specifically?

Just to add, the figures released for the opponents you mentioned are Berto $4m, Maidana $3.2m, Ortiz $2m and Guerrero $3m.

Do you think Khan would have been happy with that figure and not getting the UK ppv split? Mayweather can always point out that he's done better UK ppv figures than Khan (Hatton & Pacquiao).

There's nothing wrong with trying to get paid as much as possible but when you go to high you can get burnt

When the Hatton and mayweather deal was done, the deal was agreed that Hatton took all the uk ppv buys, as it happens the mayweathers realised this was a massive mistake

Horse wrote:
You claiming that Brook would whoop him is just talk.

Because Khan has ducked him for the last 3 years.

Do you condone his shameless ducking?

IT wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Horse wrote:Khan shouldn't be treated irreverently.

Khan deserves far more respect than he gets. He has an excellent record.

Amir Khan

Marcos Maidana
Andriy Kotelnik
Zab Judah
Paulie Malignaggi
Devon Alexander
Luis Collazo
Lamont Peterson - (Lost)
Chris Algieri
Julio Diaz
Paul McCloskey

Most of them are second rate. Algieri and Diaz arguably beat him!

How many great wins does Brook have though? Brook has beaten Porter and thats it.

I'm not sure as to why folk keep bringing Brook in to it? We're talking about Khan. Khan has had massive advantages in his career 99% of fighters can only dream of. Yeah he's talented and worked hard but he's bought in to his own hype and he comes across as if he's an elite level fighter and the fact of the matter is he isn't close. He has an arrogance and sense of entitlement that rubs people up the wrong way. He's wasted arguably his best years talking tripe and treading water. There's big fights there for him but he looks down on fighters and tries to make out as if they're unworthy of sharing a ring with him.

I'd wage good money his next fight is against another fuckin sub standard bottom dweller who can't punch for shít. Amir should've learned the lesson years ago of shutting up and letting his boxing do the talking. He's a frustrating guy and IMO becomes more unlikeable as time goes on. I used to be a fan and have travelled and spent my hard earned money on him on numerous occasions but I cannot go the guy at all now.

dirk2686 wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:Evidence of which part specifically?

That Khan expected more than the other fighters mentioned.

The fact is that when people say Khan sat around waiting for a fight he didn't deserve, other fights who were at very best on the same level Khan was at actually got that fight. Mayweather can't fight Canelo or Pacquaio every time, and when Khan sees Floyd fighting Berto (surely a massive let down for all concerned), Ortiz (who had lost to Maidana who Khan had beaten), Maidana (who Khan had beaten) and Maidana again (rinse and repeat), you surely have to accept that in and among that group Khan himself wouldn't stand out as being the odd man out.

Point is, it seems churlish to berate Khan for trying to get the biggest opponent in all of boxing when he had the chance to, and when that fight really didn't seem that unlikely. If you can show me any evidence that the fight didn't happen because Khan wanted too much money fair enough. But I'm not sure you can.

Well none of us are party to the actual discussions that went on between mayweather and Khan and so no, there is no evidence to say exactly that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of Khan over valuing himself for fights and believing that he is an a side fighter worthy of huge incomes.

You only quoted part of my original message and in the rest of it I listed the purse that was declared for Ortiz, Berto, Maidana, Guerrero. Do you think Khan would have taken those pay checks whilst floyd took $32m?

I also said that there is nothing wrong with wanting to fight the best. However, if you sit around hoping for the fight rather than cleaning house and taking everyone out who's vying for the same fight then don't go crying about it later on. Yes Khan beat Maidana in a tight great fight and didn't rematch him. He left doubt and gave people an excuse to say Maidana got the better of him. He didn't fight Guerrero, Ortiz, Berto and that's a major error.

There are plenty of reasons for the mayweather fight not happening for Khan and they all boil down to Khan

freddydoesdallas wrote:Well none of us are party to the actual discussions that went on between mayweather and Khan and so no, there is no evidence to say exactly that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of Khan over valuing himself for fights and believing that he is an a side fighter worthy of huge incomes.

You only quoted part of my original message and in the rest of it I listed the purse that was declared for Ortiz, Berto, Maidana, Guerrero. Do you think Khan would have taken those pay checks whilst floyd took $32m?

I also said that there is nothing wrong with wanting to fight the best. However, if you sit around hoping for the fight rather than cleaning house and taking everyone out who's vying for the same fight then don't go crying about it later on. Yes Khan beat Maidana in a tight great fight and didn't rematch him. He left doubt and gave people an excuse to say Maidana got the better of him. He didn't fight Guerrero, Ortiz, Berto and that's a major error.

There are plenty of reasons for the mayweather fight not happening for Khan and they all boil down to Khan

Ok, so just to nail that point, none of us know what Khan was asking for, so the notion of him pricing himself out of a Mayweather fight is pure conjecture. And we know he didn't price himself out of the Canelo fight, as that fight actually happened.

Would Khan take a career high payday for a crack at Mayweather? Yeah, I think he probably would. Does he think he's an A side worthy of 'huge incomes?' I don't know. He certainly thinks he's an A side v Brook, but clearly didn't against Canelo. I don't even think it's worth the time of day discussing whether he thinks he was a bigger name deserving of a higher billing than Mayweather.

'Sit around hoping?' Khan fights Collazo on the Maidana I undercard, followed up by beating Alexander. He then fights Algieri at around the same time Floyd fights Pacquaio in an effectively stay busy fight. During this period Andre Berto fights Steve Upsher Chambers and Josesito Lopez, and lands the Floyd fight. Khan did less 'sitting around' in this period, instead fighting three of the sort of fighters you tend to see people take on who get fights with Floyd.

dirk2686 wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote:Well none of us are party to the actual discussions that went on between mayweather and Khan and so no, there is no evidence to say exactly that. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of Khan over valuing himself for fights and believing that he is an a side fighter worthy of huge incomes.

You only quoted part of my original message and in the rest of it I listed the purse that was declared for Ortiz, Berto, Maidana, Guerrero. Do you think Khan would have taken those pay checks whilst floyd took $32m?

I also said that there is nothing wrong with wanting to fight the best. However, if you sit around hoping for the fight rather than cleaning house and taking everyone out who's vying for the same fight then don't go crying about it later on. Yes Khan beat Maidana in a tight great fight and didn't rematch him. He left doubt and gave people an excuse to say Maidana got the better of him. He didn't fight Guerrero, Ortiz, Berto and that's a major error.

There are plenty of reasons for the mayweather fight not happening for Khan and they all boil down to Khan

Ok, so just to nail that point, none of us know what Khan was asking for, so the notion of him pricing himself out of a Mayweather fight is pure conjecture. And we know he didn't price himself out of the Canelo fight, as that fight actually happened.

Would Khan take a career high payday for a crack at Mayweather? Yeah, I think he probably would. Does he think he's an A side worthy of 'huge incomes?' I don't know. He certainly thinks he's an A side v Brook, but clearly didn't against Canelo. I don't even think it's worth the time of day discussing whether he thinks he was a bigger name deserving of a higher billing than Mayweather.

'Sit around hoping?' Khan fights Collazo on the Maidana I undercard, followed up by beating Alexander. He then fights Algieri at around the same time Floyd fights Pacquaio in an effectively stay busy fight. During this period Andre Berto fights Steve Upsher Chambers and Josesito Lopez, and lands the Floyd fight. Khan did less 'sitting around' in this period, instead fighting three of the sort of fighters you tend to see people take on who get fights with Floyd.

Of course not. Out of interest, what facts are you using for why floyd didn't fight Khan? So far you've only used conjecture too.

Regarding the canelo situation. Khan got $8m according to reports. Canelo needed a name to ko and the extra Khan got paid would have also factored in the weight jump.

It's not about him thinking he's a bigger name than floyd it's about whether his ego would let him take just 10% of the purse in a mayweather fight.

The fights you mention are hardly screaming out that he's the next contender out there. The others you mention had a position and stake at welter. Khan was coming up in weight. Why didn't he fight Berto, rematch Maidana and beat him beyond doubt?

You also make it sound like those fights he had were snappy but they are his last fights since 2014!

freddydoesdallas wrote:Of course not. Out of interest, what facts are you using for why floyd didn't fight Khan? So far you've only used conjecture too.

Regarding the canelo situation. Khan got $8m according to reports. Canelo needed a name to ko and the extra Khan got paid would have also factored in the weight jump.

It's not about him thinking he's a bigger name than floyd it's about whether his ego would let him take just 10% of the purse in a mayweather fight.

The fights you mention are hardly screaming out that he's the next contender out there. The others you mention had a position and stake at welter. Khan was coming up in weight. Why didn't he fight Berto, rematch Maidana and beat him beyond doubt?

You also make it sound like those fights he had were snappy but they are his last fights since 2014!

I think Floyd knew there were major money fights out there for him which he needed to make, (Pacquaio, Canelo), and for the rest, I think he wanted a combination of names that were a little past their best, (I don't think there is any doubt that the Cotto, Mosley and Marquez who fought Floyd were the best version there had been), or low risk fights. I don't think Khan beats Mayweather of course, but do I think Khan presents more problems than, say, Andre Berto? Yeah, I probably do.

You say the other names I mentioned had a 'position and stake at welter.' Really? Robert Guerrero, a career feather/super feather, had two fights in his whole career above lightweight, (beating Aydin and Berto) before he had the fight with Floyd. Ortiz had had one fight at welter (again, Berto) before fighting Floyd. Guerro may have been an interim champion but so what. Khan was a silver champion or whatever nonsense they had him at at the time. As for Berto, come on. He'd lost three of his previous five to the two above and Soto Karass; that fight was garbage.

Why didn't he rematch Maidana? I think you're reading too much into that fight. Yeah Khan was wobbled but he won that fight and for me it wasn't really close. Not too long after Maidana loses again to Alexander who Khan absolutely destroyed.