BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The sad thing is that this is a totally unwarranted rematch (with Fonfara having been KO'd by Smith) but it's still Stevenson's strongest opponent in 3 and a half years.

Exactly. Why wouldn't he fight Smith, Alvarez, Beterbiev ?

Same reason he hasn't fought anyone good in years. They are milking this title run for all it is worth.

Fonfara vs. Beterbiev would actually have made much more sense, since Beterbiev is in need of a step-up fight.

Stuarty30 wrote:All I said was that Kovalevs comments cracked me up then you and that other bladder with a mouth jumped in on it and started menstruating all over the thread. I've said a few times that if it was down to the fighter alone then it would've probably happened haven't I! What more do you want. You seem to think it's cut and dried that Kovalev and his team backed away in fear and awe of Stevenson and that's just tripe. There's more bullshìt that goes on behind the scenes that we don't get to hear about and that's a fact.

Stop making excuses for Kovalev.

Horse wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:All I said was that Kovalevs comments cracked me up then you and that other bladder with a mouth jumped in on it and started menstruating all over the thread. I've said a few times that if it was down to the fighter alone then it would've probably happened haven't I! What more do you want. You seem to think it's cut and dried that Kovalev and his team backed away in fear and awe of Stevenson and that's just tripe. There's more bullshìt that goes on behind the scenes that we don't get to hear about and that's a fact.

Stop making excuses for Kovalev.

Go and take your face for a shite

Stuarty30 wrote:

Horse wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:I've read what you've read but I'm sure there's more to it than that. As I said if it were down to the two fighters I'm sure it would've happened but unfortunately things aren't as simple as that in boxing. It's ridiculous to insinuate that someone like Kovalev who would fight anyone is somehow running scared from a guy like Stevenson. Look at their recent opponents and judge for yourself.

But it's okay to suggest that Stevenson is running from Kovalev, when he was not the fighter to pull out of the fight?

All I said was that Kovalevs comments cracked me up then you and that other bladder with a mouth jumped in on it and started menstruating all over the thread. I've said a few times that if it was down to the fighter alone then it would've probably happened haven't I! What more do you want. You seem to think it's cut and dried that Kovalev and his team backed away in fear and awe of Stevenson and that's just tripe. There's more bullshìt that goes on behind the scenes that we don't get to hear about and that's a fact.

Whatever the reasons were, Sergey Kovalev refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to fight Adonis Stevenson.

Possessing a blatantly biased mind-set that feels compelled to dismiss this significant fact out-of-hand due to mythical reasons formulated only in your mind, is utterly preposterous.

You can't pretend this didn't happen whilst wholeheartedly endorsing Sergey Kovalev's post fight interview theatrics.

Amir Khan offered Brook the fight, but it doesn't mean he wanted it

Enlightened-One wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Horse wrote:But it's okay to suggest that Stevenson is running from Kovalev, when he was not the fighter to pull out of the fight?

All I said was that Kovalevs comments cracked me up then you and that other bladder with a mouth jumped in on it and started menstruating all over the thread. I've said a few times that if it was down to the fighter alone then it would've probably happened haven't I! What more do you want. You seem to think it's cut and dried that Kovalev and his team backed away in fear and awe of Stevenson and that's just tripe. There's more bullshìt that goes on behind the scenes that we don't get to hear about and that's a fact.

Whatever the reasons were, Sergey Kovalev refused to accept a guaranteed opportunity to fight Adonis Stevenson.

Possessing a blatantly biased mind-set that feels compelled to dismiss this significant fact out-of-hand due to mythical reasons formulated only in your mind, is utterly preposterous.

You can't pretend this didn't happen whilst wholeheartedly endorsing Sergey Kovalev's post fight interview theatrics.

Come back and talk when Stevenson fights someone worthwhile. This conversation is boring the knickers off me. If you think Kovalev shat it from Stevenson then batter in you ridiculous prick.

Ya, Stevenson didnt get to fight Kov, so he had no choice but to face a bunch of scrubs and an opponent he's already beaten (who recently got KTFO in 1)

At almost 40 the guy is really making big moves in his career

If you look through the rankings of The Ring, ESPN and the WBC, it seems that Adonis Stevenson’s options are limited.

• Andre Ward, Sergey Kovalev, Nathan Cleverly & Juergen Braehmer were all contractually-obliged to fulfil the terms of their rematch clauses (though the Brit may be able to face Badou Jack instead). In 2015, Sergey Kovalev actually declined a guaranteed shot at Adonis Stevenson.

• Even though Artur Beterbiev is a fellow Al Haymon and GYM fighter, Yvon Michel insists on taking him down the IBF route, since he wants all of the 175lb belts owned by his stable in order to secure lucrative title unification bouts in Canada.

• The WBC’s mandatory challenger, Eleider Alvarez, preferred to take step-aside money to allow his Haymon/GYM stablemate to make an optional defence.

• Sullivan Barrera is a Main Events fighter that has his fights televised by HBO, but was recently-defeated by Andre Ward and is already scheduled to face Paul Parker. And like his fellow Main Events stablemate, Sergey Kovalev, he was forced to withdraw from facing a GYM/Haymon fighter (Artur Beterbiev) by Kathy Duva, due to political reasons.

• Sean Monaghan is promoted by Top Rank, whose fighters usually competes on HBO… and was recently scheduled to face Adonis Stevenson, but the fight was cancelled when Showtime and HBO didn’t show any interest in the contest.

• Badou Jack is also an Al Haymon fighter, but has never competed as a 175lb-er, could be fighting Nathan Cleverly next and is not even ranked by the WBC.

• From what I’ve read, Oleksandr Gvozdyk and Joe Smith Jr. are lined-up to face each other in a WBC final title eliminator, with the winner being second in line, after Eleider Alvarez, to face Adonis Stevenson.

So in my mind, using purely the process of elimination, that just leaves Marcus Browne (a fellow Al Haymon fighter) as a viable alternative to Andrzej Fonfara, since there doesn't appear to be any better opposition for Stevenson to face.

Enlightened-One wrote:So in my mind, using purely the process of elimination, that just leaves Marcus Browne (a fellow Al Haymon fighter) as a viable alternative to Andrzej Fonfara, since there doesn't appear to be any better opposition for Stevenson to face.

Jean Pascal? Lucian Bute?

Adonis Stevenson isn't really a chap to take seriously is he

I actually liked Stevenson, but lack of opponents, not seeing him fight.. It's rather annoying..

I hope Fonfara wins, He's a fighter, he doesn't care who he fights and he shows up.

Oiky wrote:Adonis Stevenson isn't really a chap to take seriously is he

Exactly. Good fighter with obvious power but it seems he knows his goose is cooked as soon as he fights one of the top boys.

Horse wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:So in my mind, using purely the process of elimination, that just leaves Marcus Browne (a fellow Al Haymon fighter) as a viable alternative to Andrzej Fonfara, since there doesn't appear to be any better opposition for Stevenson to face.

Jean Pascal? Lucian Bute?

Jean Pascal has recently lost twice by stoppage to Sergey Kovalev and he only managed to defeat a journeyman in his most recent outing. So it’s a hard-sell. Pascal also recently became a free-agent since he departed Interbox. He’s rumoured to be re-joining GYM and if he does, Yvon Michel has already made it clear that he’ll be taking him down the Nathan Cleverly WBA route.

Lucian Bute has only won two of his last seven bouts, with those victories coming against against unheralded opponents. He cannot possibly be considered a better opponent for Adonis Stevenson than Andrzej Fonfara, especially when you consider the fact that he was KO'd only six weeks ago.

Enlightened-One wrote:Jean Pascal has recently lost twice by stoppage to Sergey Kovalev and he only managed to defeat a journeyman in his most recent outing. So it’s a hard-sell. Pascal also recently became a free-agent since he departed Interbox. He’s rumoured to be re-joining GYM and if he does, Yvon Michel has already made it clear that he’ll be taking him down the Nathan Cleverly WBA route.

Pascal losing twice to Kovalev isn't that big of a deal. Fonfara recently lost in a round to Smith.

I think most people would be more interested in that fight than this Fonfara rematch.

Enlightened-One wrote:Lucian Bute has only won two of his last seven bouts, with those victories coming against against unheralded opponents. He cannot possibly be considered a better opponent for Adonis Stevenson than Andrzej Fonfara.

Bute is less credible than Fonfara. I forgot about his most recent loss.

Horse wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Jean Pascal has recently lost twice by stoppage to Sergey Kovalev and he only managed to defeat a journeyman in his most recent outing. So it’s a hard-sell. Pascal also recently became a free-agent since he departed Interbox. He’s rumoured to be re-joining GYM and if he does, Yvon Michel has already made it clear that he’ll be taking him down the Nathan Cleverly WBA route.

Pascal losing twice to Kovalev isn't that big of a deal. Fonfara recently lost in a round to Smith.

I think most people would be more interested in that fight than this Fonfara rematch.

Jean Pascal seems more intent on calling out the UFC's Nick Diaz, though there is some talk of him facing Glen Johnson, and if the rumours are true about the Haitian-Canadian returning to GYM, he'll almost certainly be going down the route of the WBA "regular" title.

In addition to Marcus Browne, I guess Adonis Stevenson could potentially make an optional defence against the likes of Erik Skoglund and Robert Stieglitz, but are they really any better or bigger names than Andrzej Fonfara?

Regardless, whilst I appreciate the fact there is good justification to be frustrated at Adonis Stevenson’s reluctance to perform mandatory defences of his title, the main culprits are Yvon Michel and also the WBC for orchestrating this situation. You could also criticise HBO, Sergey Kovalev and Kathy Duva, since they refused to accept a guaranteed title shot at Adonis Stevenson. Also, there really aren’t that many decent big name opponents that Stevenson could face at this point in time.

Enlightened-One wrote:Jean Pascal seems more intent on calling out the UFC's Nick Diaz, though there is some talk of him facing Glen Johnson, and if the rumours are true about the Haitian-Canadian returning to GYM, he'll almost certainly be going down the route of the WBA "regular" title.

In addition to Marcus Browne, I guess Adonis Stevenson could potentially make an optional defence against the likes of Erik Skoglund and Robert Stieglitz, but are they really any better or bigger names than Andrzej Fonfara?

Regardless, whilst I appreciate the fact there is good justification to be frustrated at Adonis Stevenson’s reluctance to perform mandatory defences of his title, the main culprits are Yvon Michel and also the WBC for orchestrating this situation. You could also criticise HBO, Sergey Kovalev and Kathy Duva, since they refused to accept a guaranteed title shot at Adonis Stevenson. Also, there really aren’t that many decent big name opponents that Stevenson could face at this point in time.

His run of form over the last three years is inexcusable.

2014 - Andrzej Fonfara & Dmitry Sukhotskiy
2015 - Sakio Bika & Tommy Karpency
2016 - Thomas Williams Jr

Totally unacceptable.

can't blame a governing body that stevenson loses his bottle when it comes time to test himself

Oiky wrote:can't blame a governing body that stevenson loses his bottle when it comes time to test himself

They can give him good mandatories.

Horse wrote:

Oiky wrote:can't blame a governing body that stevenson loses his bottle when it comes time to test himself

They can give him good mandatories.

Haymon has ways to influence WBC which is why Wilder and Stevenson are allowed to defend against nohopers.

Horse wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Jean Pascal seems more intent on calling out the UFC's Nick Diaz, though there is some talk of him facing Glen Johnson, and if the rumours are true about the Haitian-Canadian returning to GYM, he'll almost certainly be going down the route of the WBA "regular" title.

In addition to Marcus Browne, I guess Adonis Stevenson could potentially make an optional defence against the likes of Erik Skoglund and Robert Stieglitz, but are they really any better or bigger names than Andrzej Fonfara?

Regardless, whilst I appreciate the fact there is good justification to be frustrated at Adonis Stevenson’s reluctance to perform mandatory defences of his title, the main culprits are Yvon Michel and also the WBC for orchestrating this situation. You could also criticise HBO, Sergey Kovalev and Kathy Duva, since they refused to accept a guaranteed title shot at Adonis Stevenson. Also, there really aren’t that many decent big name opponents that Stevenson could face at this point in time.

His run of form over the last three years is inexcusable.

2014 - Andrzej Fonfara & Dmitry Sukhotskiy
2015 - Sakio Bika & Tommy Karpency
2016 - Thomas Williams Jr

Totally unacceptable.

I can’t pretend the calibre of Adonis Stevenson’s opposition has been anything but disappointing since 2014, immediately after crossing the proverbial "street" from HBO to Showtime. However, his team have made multiple failed attempts to secure a bout against Sergey Kovalev, with the Russian withdrawing from the purse bid process and declining other opportunities, since Kathy Duva will only allow the bout to be televsised by HBO.

We also know that there has been a “cold war”, which resulted in HBO refusing to do business with fighters affiliated with Al Haymon or even working with Showtime (unless $200m+ fights are involved). We also know that Main Events, Top Rank and Golden Boy have all filed lawsuits against the PBC chief. And Stevenson is with Showtime & Haymon.

The only way that Kathy Duva managed to secure the bout between Hopkins & Kovalev, after the Executioner had very briefly crossed the street to Showtime, was to obtain agreement from GBP to give her the fight and in return she agreed to drop a pending lawsuit that she had already filed against them.

Nadjib Mohammedi & Isaac Chilemba were both top-ten ranked 175lb-ers that were with the same Main Events promoter that also handles Sergey Kovalev.

Andre Ward had signed a three-fight exclusive contract with HBO, which included an obligation to fight Sergey Kovalev.

Jean Pascal had predominantly had his fights televised by HBO (i.e. Dawson, Hopkins twice, Kovalev twice, Bute etc.).

Superman will be forty years of age soon, which means he’s probably looking to sign-off with a big money fight before he hangs-up his gloves. So there’s a good chance that he’s hoping that a network free-agent like Andre Ward will be willing to take the fight if he emerges successful from the Kovalev rematch (assuming Stevenson can avoid defeat in the interim).

I personally believe that it would be wrong to accuse Adonis Stevenson as being a “duck” or a “coward” when boxing politics is the primary reason why he has struggled to secure bouts against the sports’ biggest 175lb names. I also believe at this point in time that there is a distinct lack of viable opponents for the Superman to face.

Enlightened-One wrote:I personally believe that it would be wrong to accuse Adonis Stevenson as being a “duck” or a “coward” when boxing politics is the primary reason why he has struggled to secure bouts against the sports’ biggest 175lb names. I also believe at this point in time that there is a distinct lack of viable opponents for the Superman to face.

I don't let anyone off the hook with those sorts of excuses.

If he needs to change promoter, network, advisor etc. then that is what he should do.

There are plenty of decent opponents for him at 175 lbs. He should be fighting them.

Wilder and Stevenson are two completely different situations. Monahan is now with Dibella, by the way.

Horse wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:I personally believe that it would be wrong to accuse Adonis Stevenson as being a “duck” or a “coward” when boxing politics is the primary reason why he has struggled to secure bouts against the sports’ biggest 175lb names. I also believe at this point in time that there is a distinct lack of viable opponents for the Superman to face.

I don't let anyone off the hook with those sorts of excuses.

If he needs to change promoter, network, advisor etc. then that is what he should do.

There are plenty of decent opponents for him at 175 lbs. He should be fighting them.

That's the thing nowadays, it's not easy to be released from contracts, because there is the potential that he could endure an enforced layoff due to the same sort of legal issues encountered by the likes of Andre Ward and Demetrius Andrade.

Also, it’s hard to abandon the lure of receiving sizable purses for facing second-tier opposition, the sort that other Haymon affiliated fighters are accustomed to.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Horse wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:So in my mind, using purely the process of elimination, that just leaves Marcus Browne (a fellow Al Haymon fighter) as a viable alternative to Andrzej Fonfara, since there doesn't appear to be any better opposition for Stevenson to face.

Jean Pascal? Lucian Bute?

Jean Pascal has recently lost twice by stoppage to Sergey Kovalev and he only managed to defeat a journeyman in his most recent outing. So it’s a hard-sell. Pascal also recently became a free-agent since he departed Interbox. He’s rumoured to be re-joining GYM and if he does, Yvon Michel has already made it clear that he’ll be taking him down the Nathan Cleverly WBA route.

Lucian Bute has only won two of his last seven bouts, with those victories coming against against unheralded opponents. He cannot possibly be considered a better opponent for Adonis Stevenson than Andrzej Fonfara, especially when you consider the fact that he was KO'd only six weeks ago.

Bute or Pascal aren't such a hard sell. It's an all Canadian title fight. So it has canadas interest and probably worldwide better interest than stevensons chosen opponent. Bute was certainly very popular during his prime. Pascal a bit more of a marmite character so not sure of his fan base but marmite character have interest, liked or disliked, not many "don't care" people. Which is good.

As for competitiveness. Bute would be beaten by stoppage im confident. He's wide open defensively. Pascal is a tough guy so it's probably a better fight. Pascal did ok the first kovalev fight but got beat up in the rematch imo

Ossyrules wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Horse wrote:Jean Pascal? Lucian Bute?

Jean Pascal has recently lost twice by stoppage to Sergey Kovalev and he only managed to defeat a journeyman in his most recent outing. So it’s a hard-sell. Pascal also recently became a free-agent since he departed Interbox. He’s rumoured to be re-joining GYM and if he does, Yvon Michel has already made it clear that he’ll be taking him down the Nathan Cleverly WBA route.

Lucian Bute has only won two of his last seven bouts, with those victories coming against against unheralded opponents. He cannot possibly be considered a better opponent for Adonis Stevenson than Andrzej Fonfara, especially when you consider the fact that he was KO'd only six weeks ago.

Bute or Pascal aren't such a hard sell. It's an all Canadian title fight. So it has canadas interest and probably worldwide better interest than stevensons chosen opponent. Bute was certainly very popular during his prime. Pascal a bit more of a marmite character so not sure of his fan base but marmite character have interest, liked or disliked, not many "don't care" people. Which is good.

As for competitiveness. Bute would be beaten by stoppage im confident. He's wide open defensively. Pascal is a tough guy so it's probably a better fight. Pascal did ok the first kovalev fight but got beat up in the rematch imo

Bute and Pascal aren't commercially viable opponents and Lucian is even considering retirement. Their recent form and resume would be considered poor to the mainstream casuals - and those are the people that fund fights, not the hard-core minority.