BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I agree, his matchmaking is better than vitalis was.

I can think of at least 5 guys that were in the Top 10 when Vitali fought them. So no his matchmaking isn't better than Vitali's.

If Briggs wins his belt and Wilder continues to act like he's serious about his unification bullshit...

asdfjkl wrote:If Briggs wins his belt and Wilder continues to act like he's serious about his unification bullshit...

If Briggs beat Oquendo for that belt, Briggs still wouldn't be ranked Top 30. That's how meaningless that belt is.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I agree, his matchmaking is better than vitalis was.

I can think of at least 5 guys that were in the Top 10 when Vitali fought them. So no his matchmaking isn't better than Vitali's.

Sure it is.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I agree, his matchmaking is better than vitalis was.

I can think of at least 5 guys that were in the Top 10 when Vitali fought them. So no his matchmaking isn't better than Vitali's.

Sure it is.

Based on what?

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I can think of at least 5 guys that were in the Top 10 when Vitali fought them. So no his matchmaking isn't better than Vitali's.

Sure it is.

Based on what?

Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Sure it is.

Based on what?

Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
Based on what?

Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Vitali's style is 100 times more cowardice than Wilder's. His style was developed to not get KOed. I understand no one wants to get KOed. But it was very unpleasant to watch. And the way he fought Fury... Comon.

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
Based on what?

Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Arreola and Danny Williams were never in my top 10 & Kirk Johnson was a beached whale.chisora was better than those guys.

Impractical Poster wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Vitali's style is 100 times more cowardice than Wilder's. His style was developed to not get KOed. I understand no one wants to get KOed. But it was very unpleasant to watch. And the way he fought Fury... Comon.

Are you talking about Vitali or wlad?

Impractical Poster wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Vitali's style is 100 times more cowardice than Wilder's. His style was developed to not get KOed. I understand no one wants to get KOed. But it was very unpleasant to watch. And the way he fought Fury... Comon.

You're talking about Wlad not Vitali.

Wlad fought Fury

Ricky_ wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Vitali's style is 100 times more cowardice than Wilder's. His style was developed to not get KOed. I understand no one wants to get KOed. But it was very unpleasant to watch. And the way he fought Fury... Comon.

Are you talking about Vitali or wlad?

Shit!! Yes, Wlad. Got the two mixed up yet again.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Based on how terrible vitalis opponents were in his title defenses. Who was his best? Arreola? Solid? It's at least equal and nobody bitches about him.

Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Arreola and Danny Williams were never in my top 10 & Kirk Johnson was a beached whale.chisora was better than those guys.

I didn't say they were anything special. The guys ranked 6 thru 10 now aren't anything special either. That's what makes the fact that Wilder is avoiding them all the more shameful.

I don't think I would've had Danny Williams in my Top 10 either, but I'm pretty sure they were Top 10 according to Ring Magazine or something of that sort at the time Vitali fought them.

Kirk Johnson was definitely a fat tub of sh*t when he fought Vitali. No argument there, and I really never got why he was highly ranked in the first place, but he was.

gilgamesh wrote:

marvelous marv wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
5 title defenses. Not one of them against a Top 10 ranked opponent. Stevenson's title reign is indeed reprehensible, but guess what...he's fought Top 10 ranked opponents in that reign. So if his reign is reprehensible what does that make Wilder's?

The biggest difference to me is that some of Wilder's opponents, without going thru every fight, were a result of the Povetkin situation or injury. I still feel he wants to make the biggest fights possible. He will be in London to do commentary for Sky and meet with the winner of Wlad/Joshua, which means nothing unless they sign to fight him, but he is trying.

How would it even be possible to be trying to make the biggest fights possible and not fight a Top 10 opponent in 5 title defenses? Luis Ortiz, Carlos Takam, Andy Ruiz...any of those guys would be better than who he's defended against, and I'm sure he could get one of those guys to fight him.

Wilder is a joke.

He wants a big money fight, but he doesn't want any opponent with a pulse until he's getting a big money payday because he's a coward and knows he doesn't deserve the position he's in.

Wilder did have two fights fall through due to PED testing, two fights to test a newly healed broken hand. Other than that he took fights to stay busy, as he promised he would as champion. He knows as well as anyone his time is now to fight a top guy. He is talented, but seems still raw at times. The times when he looks his worst is when he is flailing away trying to finish someone after he hurt them. I would say his recent 5 or so opponents are as tough or tougher than what Joshua has fought, and Joshua is rated much much higher at least on this board.
He says he wants the winner of Joshua vs Wlad, so hopefully he gets it. His reputation is declining even though he hasn't defended his title with anyone not in the top 15 WBC.

I wouldn't call anyone that won a heavyweight championship (or any pro boxing championship at any weight) a coward and a joke.

The problem right now is, who is available now that is a credible opponent? Anyone who's anyone is tied up at the moment. Joshua is tied up with Klitschko, Parker with H.Fury. Don't think we'll ever see Povetkin and Wilder ever share a ring. T.Fury is still out the game. Ortiz, Pulev and Whyte are also all tied up in their own fights.

Anyone care to make any credible recommendations?

gilgamesh wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
Arreola, Adamek, Corrie Sanders, Kirk Johnson and Danny Williams were all Top 10 at the time Vitali fought them.

Wilder has fought 1 Top 10 opponent in his entire career. Stiverne.

Now he certainly has plenty of time to eclipse Vitali's weak resume, but he hasn't done it yet.

Though I will acknowledge with the victory over Helenius, Johann Duhaupas has SINCE become a Top 10 ranked Heavyweight even though he wasn't at the time Wilder fought him. So if you want to give Wilder that one, that makes 2. I'd only consider a guy a Top 10 ranked guy if he was Top 10 at the time he fought him.

Arreola and Danny Williams were never in my top 10 & Kirk Johnson was a beached whale.chisora was better than those guys.

I didn't say they were anything special. The guys ranked 6 thru 10 now aren't anything special either. That's what makes the fact that Wilder is avoiding them all the more shameful.

I don't think I would've had Danny Williams in my Top 10 either, but I'm pretty sure they were Top 10 according to Ring Magazine or something of that sort at the time Vitali fought them.

Kirk Johnson was definitely a fat tub of sh*t when he fought Vitali. No argument there, and I really never got why he was highly ranked in the first place, but he was.

I couldn't care less about any rankings. They're similar level fighters.

Vitali has undoubtedly fought better opposition than Wilder

I think even current Chisora would very arguably be Wilder's best opponent, and when Vitali was Wilder's age he stepped up against Lewis.

Vitali: Lewis, Peter, Adamek, Chisora, Solis, Gomez, Bryd, prime Arreola, Sanders, Hide..
Wilder: Stiverne, Scott, Molina, Duhaupas, shot Arreola, Szpilka, Washington, Audley, Kelvin Price..

Rob3_142 wrote:The problem right now is, who is available now that is a credible opponent? Anyone who's anyone is tied up at the moment. Joshua is tied up with Klitschko, Parker with H.Fury. Don't think we'll ever see Povetkin and Wilder ever share a ring. T.Fury is still out the game. Ortiz, Pulev and Whyte are also all tied up in their own fights.

Anyone care to make any credible recommendations?

Are Chisora and Takam busy? They're not great, but I think they'd arguably be his best opponents.

crusader wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:The problem right now is, who is available now that is a credible opponent? Anyone who's anyone is tied up at the moment. Joshua is tied up with Klitschko, Parker with H.Fury. Don't think we'll ever see Povetkin and Wilder ever share a ring. T.Fury is still out the game. Ortiz, Pulev and Whyte are also all tied up in their own fights.

Anyone care to make any credible recommendations?

Are Chisora and Takam busy? They're not great, but I think they'd arguably be his best opponents.

Chisora is scheduled to face Helenius in a rematch, but the likes of Takam and Ruiz are still available, although I don't think they qualify as credible opponents.

Why wouldn't Takam be credible? He was very competitive with juiced up Povetkin, should've gotten a win over unbeaten Perez, and dominated Thompson with TT still had a bit left. He's been competitive with multiple contenders (unlike fat boy Stiverne), he isn't shot, and he wasn't clowned and stopped a few fights before by a Jennings type.

He's not an elite HW, but he'd arguably be at the very top of Wilder's resume.

gilgamesh wrote:Somebody who's not in the Top 10...you can bet on that.

I agree.

If I had to guess, I think I would go with Breazeale, Rudenko, or Martin. I don't think that the Breazeale lawsuit rules him out as a possible opponent, since sometimes boxers' lawsuits aid them in acquiring title shots / mandatory status, i.e. Fres Oquendo. ... It should go without saying that I don't consider Breazeale a top 10 heavyweight, regardless of his boxrec ranking.

Badhusker wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

marvelous marv wrote:
The biggest difference to me is that some of Wilder's opponents, without going thru every fight, were a result of the Povetkin situation or injury. I still feel he wants to make the biggest fights possible. He will be in London to do commentary for Sky and meet with the winner of Wlad/Joshua, which means nothing unless they sign to fight him, but he is trying.

How would it even be possible to be trying to make the biggest fights possible and not fight a Top 10 opponent in 5 title defenses? Luis Ortiz, Carlos Takam, Andy Ruiz...any of those guys would be better than who he's defended against, and I'm sure he could get one of those guys to fight him.

Wilder is a joke.

He wants a big money fight, but he doesn't want any opponent with a pulse until he's getting a big money payday because he's a coward and knows he doesn't deserve the position he's in.

Wilder did have two fights fall through due to PED testing, two fights to test a newly healed broken hand. Other than that he took fights to stay busy, as he promised he would as champion.

The one fight falling through actually resulted in him fighting a better opponent. Wawryzk was a sh*ttier opponent than Gerald Washington. So that one actually worked out for the better. Washington was at least a big, unbeaten Top 20 kinda guy.

Stiverne is WBC No. 1 contender, so I assume there will be a rematch with Wilder or maybe Ortiz because he is No. 2. Pulev is No. 3. Dillian Whyte and Carlos Takam are also in WBC's top ten. I would rather see any of those matchups instead of Stiverne. I agree that Wilder should start defending against legitimate top 10-15 contenders.

gilgamesh wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:If Briggs wins his belt and Wilder continues to act like he's serious about his unification bullshit...

If Briggs beat Oquendo for that belt, Briggs still wouldn't be ranked Top 30. That's how meaningless that belt is.

That's because of the lawsuit lol, you can't blame Briggs for that. Molina, Duhaupas and Arreola weren't top 30 either at the time of their fights with Wilder. So Briggs fits that bill. The only difference is that Briggs has a lot bigger chance as any other opponent Deontay has ever had.

crusader wrote:Vitali has undoubtedly fought better opposition than Wilder

I think even current Chisora would very arguably be Wilder's best opponent, and when Vitali was Wilder's age he stepped up against Lewis.

Vitali: Lewis, Peter, Adamek, Chisora, Solis, Gomez, Bryd, prime Arreola, Sanders, Hide..
Wilder: Stiverne, Scott, Molina, Duhaupas, shot Arreola, Szpilka, Washington, Audley, Kelvin Price..

I never said he hadn't, just the same kind of matchmaking from the position of beltholder.