BoxRec

sweetscience wrote:FFS Brook cant stay up there forever

like Horse said he only has one win, you cant dine off that for 5 years

in a Mythical matchup with Bellew he could win.... but you have to draw the line somewhere, and 1 win in 13 years is that I am afraid

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
Brook hasn't a good win since Porter

When's Bellew had a top win that's close go that. Sorry but the Haye fight can't be mentioned to give Bellew kudos

I've seen more from brook and the level he's at in defeat to golovkin and spence than Bellew "beating" David Haye

Boxers shouldn't take risks against the best opponents to be rated highly in case they lose, while the guys fighting domestic and European level opponents can be rated high as they're putting them away? That doesn't make sense to me.

P4P is hugely subjective, people will like who they like, but I don't see how Bellew is above brook on this one. He's never proven to at the levelbrook fought at

Brook hasn't won in over a year, in that time Bellew has won a world title, defended it and gotten the W against Haye. Brook can't live forever on one win three years ago.

That sounds great, but theirs a reason you didn't go into detail with Bellew

Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

Defended it - against a guy with no credentials who didn't deserve the shot but got it via bad mouthing on twitter

Beat haye - if you can call it that. Technically yes. Looked absolutely dreadful. Thankfully Hayes Achilles gave in with 7 rounds to go. If it went with only 5 to go it wasn't enough time for Bellew to see off a one legged man.

Wins are better than losses. But look at their recent fights to judge their level

Vs Haye - Bellew looked dreadful against an injured opponent who had fought 2 bums on his comeback from career threatening injury

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

The brook fight is at a much better level. Much better

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Brook hasn't won in over a year, in that time Bellew has won a world title, defended it and gotten the W against Haye. Brook can't live forever on one win three years ago.

That sounds great, but theirs a reason you didn't go into detail with Bellew

Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

Defended it - against a guy with no credentials who didn't deserve the shot but got it via bad mouthing on twitter

Beat haye - if you can call it that. Technically yes. Looked absolutely dreadful. Thankfully Hayes Achilles gave in with 7 rounds to go. If it went with only 5 to go it wasn't enough time for Bellew to see off a one legged man.

Wins are better than losses. But look at their recent fights to judge their level

Vs Haye - Bellew looked dreadful against an injured opponent who had fought 2 bums on his comeback from career threatening injury

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

The brook fight is at a much better level. Much better

So if Bellew was fighting the same calibre of opponents and losing you'd be okay with his ranking?

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
That sounds great, but theirs a reason you didn't go into detail with Bellew

Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

Defended it - against a guy with no credentials who didn't deserve the shot but got it via bad mouthing on twitter

Beat haye - if you can call it that. Technically yes. Looked absolutely dreadful. Thankfully Hayes Achilles gave in with 7 rounds to go. If it went with only 5 to go it wasn't enough time for Bellew to see off a one legged man.

Wins are better than losses. But look at their recent fights to judge their level

Vs Haye - Bellew looked dreadful against an injured opponent who had fought 2 bums on his comeback from career threatening injury

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

The brook fight is at a much better level. Much better

So if Bellew was fighting the same calibre of opponents and losing you'd be okay with his ranking?

If Bellew fought usyk for example, and it was a great fight and he was fully in the fight, but got beat, you'd know a lot more of what his level and quality is than vs makabu, Flores and a crocked David haye

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
So if Bellew was fighting the same calibre of opponents and losing you'd be okay with his ranking?

If Bellew fought usyk for example, and it was a great fight and he was fully in the fight, but got beat, you'd know a lot more of what his level and quality is than vs makabu, Flores and a crocked David haye

Who knew boxing had nothing to do with winning fights. Does Brook know? He'll be pleased.

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
If Bellew fought usyk for example, and it was a great fight and he was fully in the fight, but got beat, you'd know a lot more of what his level and quality is than vs makabu, Flores and a crocked David haye

Who knew boxing had nothing to do with winning fights. Does Brook know? He'll be pleased.

Do me a favour I'm not saying that you build a career on losses, but when you've got a specific example and one guys mixing at the top, the other in European level or freak fights, it's a factor.

Vitali came out of the Lewis fight with better credentials than he went in

Wlad s loss vs Joshua was described as a career best performance. It's enhanced his standing

A loss doesn't always discredit a guy

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Who knew boxing had nothing to do with winning fights. Does Brook know? He'll be pleased.

Do me a favour I'm not saying that you build a career on losses, but when you've got a specific example and one guys mixing at the top, the other in European level or freak fights, it's a factor.

Vitali came out of the Lewis fight with better credentials than he went in

Wlad s loss vs Joshua was described as a career best performance. It's enhanced his standing

A loss doesn't always discredit a guy

Of course it doesn't. But when you haven't won in over a year and the other guy has three wins, one a world title win and a defence it matters. Brook only has one win above the level Tony is at, he can't get credit for that in these rankings forever, he did fight well and looked as good as ever but ultimately he lost.

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
Do me a favour I'm not saying that you build a career on losses, but when you've got a specific example and one guys mixing at the top, the other in European level or freak fights, it's a factor.

Vitali came out of the Lewis fight with better credentials than he went in

Wlad s loss vs Joshua was described as a career best performance. It's enhanced his standing

A loss doesn't always discredit a guy

Of course it doesn't. But when you haven't won in over a year and the other guy has three wins, one a world title win and a defence it matters. Brook only has one win above the level Tony is at, he can't get credit for that in these rankings forever, he did fight well and looked as good as ever but ultimately he lost.

Until bellews beaten a top class opponent, or even competed vs one and not got iced, I see no way he's at Brooks level in a p4p sense

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Of course it doesn't. But when you haven't won in over a year and the other guy has three wins, one a world title win and a defence it matters. Brook only has one win above the level Tony is at, he can't get credit for that in these rankings forever, he did fight well and looked as good as ever but ultimately he lost.

Until bellews beaten a top class opponent, or even competed vs one and not got iced, I see no way he's at Brooks level in a p4p sense

Brook got iced twice himself.

When does Brook's one world class win stop being counted in these rankings then? It was three years ago!

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
Until bellews beaten a top class opponent, or even competed vs one and not got iced, I see no way he's at Brooks level in a p4p sense

Brook got iced twice himself.

When does Brook's one world class win stop being counted in these rankings then? It was three years ago!

If you're putting Stevenson defeat on level terms with the golovkin or spence defeat we've got more problems.

sweetscience wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

sweetscience wrote:FFS Brook cant stay up there forever

like Horse said he only has one win, you cant dine off that for 5 years

in a Mythical matchup with Bellew he could win.... but you have to draw the line somewhere, and 1 win in 13 years is that I am afraid

It's a P4P list and Brook is a better fighter than the two guys in question IMO.

so is khan

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
Brook got iced twice himself.

When does Brook's one world class win stop being counted in these rankings then? It was three years ago!

If you're putting Stevenson defeat on level terms with the golovkin or spence defeat we've got more problems.

What on earth are you talking about, I haven't even mentioned Stevenson. But he is certainly the same level as Spence who is pretty unproven at this point.

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
If you're putting Stevenson defeat on level terms with the golovkin or spence defeat we've got more problems.

What on earth are you talking about, I haven't even mentioned Stevenson. But he is certainly the same level as Spence who is pretty unproven at this point.

When I said about Bellew fighting a top class opponent and not getting iced...the only time he's stepped up in quality. That ones gone over your head.

You type your responses like you know the result of a fight, but not watched the fight

Horse wrote:

sweetscience wrote:FFS Brook cant stay up there forever

like Horse said he only has one win, you cant dine off that for 5 years

in a Mythical matchup with Bellew he could win.... but you have to draw the line somewhere, and 1 win in 13 years is that I am afraid

It was a very good win, but that's essentially all that he has.

Maybe he can still salvage something more from his career, but as it is his career has been a let down.

He seemed content to beat on overmatched opposition for too long and I think he might have developed a bit of a bully mindset, as he doesn't seem to like it when they fight back.

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
What on earth are you talking about, I haven't even mentioned Stevenson. But he is certainly the same level as Spence who is pretty unproven at this point.

When I said about Bellew fighting a top class opponent and not getting iced...the only time he's stepped up in quality. That ones gone over your head.

You type your responses like you know the result of a fight, but not watched the fight

What on earth are you babbling on about? All I said was Brook has gotten iced himself twice. I realised obviously, yours was a reference to Stevenson but I did t comment on Stevensons level or quality in regards to Brook's opponents at all so why did you say it? But yes, Stevenson is at least on the same terms as Spence is right now and then. I'm not sure what fight you think I haven't seen but I've seen all the ones we're discussing.

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
When I said about Bellew fighting a top class opponent and not getting iced...the only time he's stepped up in quality. That ones gone over your head.

You type your responses like you know the result of a fight, but not watched the fight

What on earth are you babbling on about? All I said was Brook has gotten iced himself twice. I realised obviously, yours was a reference to Stevenson but I did t comment on Stevensons level or quality in regards to Brook's opponents at all so why did you say it? But yes, Stevenson is at least on the same terms as Spence is right now and then. I'm not sure what fight you think I haven't seen but I've seen all the ones we're discussing.

What am I babbling on about.. brook was in and competing ever fight he's had, right up to the top level.

Bellews stepped up once and got iced. Truly iced. Not beat. Never in the fight then cleaned out. In his only fight at the top level. There's your first indicator on level. Maybe he's improved but until he fights someone up there, he's not at that level.

So when blanket a load of there performances it reads like you've not watched the fight, but the internet tells you the result

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:
What on earth are you babbling on about? All I said was Brook has gotten iced himself twice. I realised obviously, yours was a reference to Stevenson but I did t comment on Stevensons level or quality in regards to Brook's opponents at all so why did you say it? But yes, Stevenson is at least on the same terms as Spence is right now and then. I'm not sure what fight you think I haven't seen but I've seen all the ones we're discussing.

What am I babbling on about.. brook was in and competing ever fight he's had, right up to the top level.

Bellews stepped up once and got iced. Truly iced. Not beat. Never in the fight then cleaned out. In his only fight at the top level. There's your first indicator on level. Maybe he's improved but until he fights someone up there, he's not at that level.

So when blanket a load of there performances it reads like you've not watched the fight, but the internet tells you the result

What?

Ossyrules wrote:

Covfefe wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:
What am I babbling on about.. brook was in and competing ever fight he's had, right up to the top level.

Bellews stepped up once and got iced. Truly iced. Not beat. Never in the fight then cleaned out. In his only fight at the top level. There's your first indicator on level. Maybe he's improved but until he fights someone up there, he's not at that level.

So when blanket a load of there performances it reads like you've not watched the fight, but the internet tells you the result

What?

Go to bed mate

Covfefe wrote:That doesn't make any sense. So when blanket a load of there performances. I don't know what that means.

Ossyrules wrote:Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

. . .

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

BitPlayer wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

. . .

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

Before their fights Spence was barely more proven than Makabu, Bellews won by a 3rd round KO, Brook got stopped.

Horse wrote:

Covfefe wrote:That doesn't make any sense. So when blanket a load of there performances. I don't know what that means.

If you don't know what that means then there's no helping you.

Go to bed, sunshine.

BitPlayer wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:Won a world title - beat a complete unknown and unproven for a vacant belt

. . .

Vs spence - fought a hard fight. Top level fight. Ended with a tko loss 11.

Before their fights Spence was barely more proven than Makabu, Bellews won by a 3rd round KO, Brook got stopped.

Covfefe wrote:

Horse wrote:

Covfefe wrote:That doesn't make any sense. So when blanket a load of there performances. I don't know what that means.

If you don't know what that means then there's no helping you.

Go to bed, sunshine.

Well what does it mean?

Covfefe wrote:

Horse wrote:

Covfefe wrote:That doesn't make any sense. So when blanket a load of there performances. I don't know what that means.

If you don't know what that means then there's no helping you.

Go to bed, sunshine.

Well what does it mean?