BoxRec

Freedom2013 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:I was talking about present top 30 p4p. Ward is the dirtiest top boxer, period.

He's no worse than Porter or Salido.

Porter isn't nearly as dirty as Ward.

Salido is very dirty, but Ward is the undisputed king of illegal tactics.

SOGgy "is the undisputed king of" grind and pound tactics. He is a special kind of tough. I much prefer watching SOGgy operate than later FMJ or most of Wlad's hayday.

SOGgy is no easy out. He is boxing's version of by any means necessary. SOGgy was intent on beating the bullsh!t tough talk out of Krushedner and handing him his badass.

Pretty hilarious having the same people who feared Krushedner getting DQed for being too aggressive screaming like little girls in a haunted house and demanding the DQ of the man in complete control of the fight.

It is ok. We understand that you are praying and meditating that SOGgy v Krushedner III never happens. We would empathize with your need to rationalize your position by blaming the superior boxer's tactics, the ref, the judges, the commission, the state, the federal government, the Black Panthers, the liberal media, etc., but we have no experience of such a need.

Krushedner and his b!tch legions pissed the wrong dude off. End of.

Freedom2013 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:I was talking about present top 30 p4p. Ward is the dirtiest top boxer, period.

He's no worse than Porter or Salido.

Porter isn't nearly as dirty as Ward.

Salido is very dirty, but Ward is the undisputed king of illegal tactics.

gilgamesh wrote:Golota intentionally threw a low blow combination to a guy even after having 3 points deducted, and being told he'd be DQ'd after another low blow. Causing himself to be DQ'd twice against a guy he was beating...twice!!!

Golota bit a guy on the neck he was struggling against

Golota headbutted fighters he was struggling against


Is this a serious question? And if so...are you stupid?

I totally agree. I have over 30 of Golota's fights & he did it intentionally especially coming up. He even had a smirk on his face a few times after doing it. If he was in trouble or struggling as you said he would resort to dirty tactics. If he was hurt & in trouble he would throw an intentional low blow with some serious juice on it to slow down his opponent. He didn't care if he lost a point because he could mount a comeback if his opponent was hurt. He was one of the dirtiest fighters I ever seen but also one of my favourites.

joe strong wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Golota intentionally threw a low blow combination to a guy even after having 3 points deducted, and being told he'd be DQ'd after another low blow. Causing himself to be DQ'd twice against a guy he was beating...twice!!!

Golota bit a guy on the neck he was struggling against

Golota headbutted fighters he was struggling against


Is this a serious question? And if so...are you stupid?

I totally agree. I have over 30 of Golota's fights & he did it intentionally especially coming up. He even had a smirk on his face a few times after doing it. If he was in trouble or struggling as you said he would resort to dirty tactics. If he was hurt & in trouble he would throw an intentional low blow with some serious juice on it to slow down his opponent. He didn't care if he lost a point because he could mount a comeback if his opponent was hurt. He was one of the dirtiest fighters I ever seen but also one of my favourites.

I ended up kinda liking him as well. He was definitely a fighter. But holy hell was he dirty.

x2x wrote:Golota was just nuts - plus there is a lot about his career that the public doesn't know. Also eventually Golota straightened out and legitimately won the heavyweight title with no monkey business - vs. both Byrd and Ruiz - despite being deliberately hounded by another rotten crook of a referee, like Weeks, Randy Neumann both times, and many other times as well - and what was with that anyway? - and both times when he beat Byrd and Ruiz he was robbed by the rotten crook judges. Ward is not nuts just a plain outright cheating dirty fighter.

I love Golota & he wasn't screwed by anyone. His fights with Bryd, Ruiz & Brewster were all under the Don King banner. King gave Golota 3 straight world title fights because of how popular he was. The Ruiz & Byrd fights were close but he was not a decisive winner. He was Don King's cash cow even though he wasn't the champion. His purse was bigger for all 3 fights even though he wasn't the champion. Those rotten crooked judges were selected by his own promoter. King promoted Byrd, Ruiz, Brewster & Golota at the same time. He made Golota a lot of money but unfortunately Golota didn't finish either Ruiz or Byrd off. King paid Golota over 4x what he paid Byrd so why wouldn't he want Golota winning? He could pack MSG with Poles. Golota faded in most of his fights. Those rotten crooked judges & ref's selection was influenced by his promoter. So if you think he got screwed then blame his promoter Don King.

Golota was dirtier, but at least he was disqualified and booed. Ward has KO win and is regarded as skilled P4P

Cent0089 wrote:Golota was dirtier, but at least he was disqualified and booed. Ward has KO win and is regarded as skilled P4P

https://twitter.com/BoxingHype/status/8 ... 1317702657

Freedom2013 wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:Golota was dirtier, but at least he was disqualified and booed. Ward has KO win and is regarded as skilled P4P

https://twitter.com/BoxingHype/status/8 ... 1317702657

that Ward face

joe strong wrote: I love Golota & he wasn't screwed by anyone. His fights with Bryd, Ruiz & Brewster were all under the Don King banner. King gave Golota 3 straight world title fights because of how popular he was. The Ruiz & Byrd fights were close but he was not a decisive winner. He was Don King's cash cow even though he wasn't the champion. His purse was bigger for all 3 fights even though he wasn't the champion. Those rotten crooked judges were selected by his own promoter. King promoted Byrd, Ruiz, Brewster & Golota at the same time. He made Golota a lot of money but unfortunately Golota didn't finish either Ruiz or Byrd off. King paid Golota over 4x what he paid Byrd so why wouldn't he want Golota winning? He could pack MSG with Poles. Golota faded in most of his fights. Those rotten crooked judges & ref's selection was influenced by his promoter. So if you think he got screwed then blame his promoter Don King.

"So if you think he got screwed then blame his promoter Don King"

Not hard to do that now is it? Who knows what King's motives were at any given moment, except it involved money and crime.

Hard to believe that "those rotten crooked judges' and that phony referee, Randy Neuman, former New Jersey heavyweight and now boxings money launderer, were chosen by Golota's team. Why was Neuman always dogging Golota in most of his fights, always harassing him? Why did they always allow him to be the ref? Was it Don King behind that too? In the Byrd fight there were three occasions when Golota punched him and he didn't fall down but his gloves touched the ground. Neuman ignored all of them, but they should have been ruled knockdowns with the 8 count and then a 10-8 round for Golota. He was easily beating Ruiz in the first half and then he stopped trying in the second half, but Ruiz did his usual not much either as I recall. Golota was mixed up with the Polish mob. There are a lot of mysteries about him and his weird fights. Where is he now?

Freedom2013 wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:Golota was dirtier, but at least he was disqualified and booed. Ward has KO win and is regarded as skilled P4P

https://twitter.com/BoxingHype/status/8 ... 1317702657

Good one!

Golota wasn't dirty. He just didn't have the right refs employed for conspiratorial coverup.

I'm thinking that the people who picked Ward either have no idea who Golota is or just aren't that familiar with him.

Something about Golota and Ward here, but I can't read it.

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/boks/694366 ... ojego-syna

It has to be Golota, but he got DQ'd for his dirtiest moments, wheras Ward won whilst getting away with headbutts, low blows and elbows. Not to mention the excessive holding in all his last 5 fights.
As for active fighters he is P4P dirtiest right now.

x2x wrote:

joe strong wrote: I love Golota & he wasn't screwed by anyone. His fights with Bryd, Ruiz & Brewster were all under the Don King banner. King gave Golota 3 straight world title fights because of how popular he was. The Ruiz & Byrd fights were close but he was not a decisive winner. He was Don King's cash cow even though he wasn't the champion. His purse was bigger for all 3 fights even though he wasn't the champion. Those rotten crooked judges were selected by his own promoter. King promoted Byrd, Ruiz, Brewster & Golota at the same time. He made Golota a lot of money but unfortunately Golota didn't finish either Ruiz or Byrd off. King paid Golota over 4x what he paid Byrd so why wouldn't he want Golota winning? He could pack MSG with Poles. Golota faded in most of his fights. Those rotten crooked judges & ref's selection was influenced by his promoter. So if you think he got screwed then blame his promoter Don King.

"So if you think he got screwed then blame his promoter Don King"

Not hard to do that now is it? Who knows what King's motives were at any given moment, except it involved money and crime.

Hard to believe that "those rotten crooked judges' and that phony referee, Randy Neuman, former New Jersey heavyweight and now boxings money launderer, were chosen by Golota's team. Why was Neuman always dogging Golota in most of his fights, always harassing him? Why did they always allow him to be the ref? Was it Don King behind that too? In the Byrd fight there were three occasions when Golota punched him and he didn't fall down but his gloves touched the ground. Neuman ignored all of them, but they should have been ruled knockdowns with the 8 count and then a 10-8 round for Golota. He was easily beating Ruiz in the first half and then he stopped trying in the second half, but Ruiz did his usual not much either as I recall. Golota was mixed up with the Polish mob. There are a lot of mysteries about him and his weird fights. Where is he now?

Andrew Golota is one of my all-time favourites. I have most of his fights. He was a very dirty fighter & Randy Neuman was only the ref of his fights twice. Once against Byrd & the other against Grant. There are no mysteries about his fights. He had a great jab & solid boxing skills but he struggled the minute he faced any sort of adversity. He fell apart on multiple occasions. Even his former trainers said this. When he got into trouble he would headbutt, low blow or just simply quit. His chin wasn't the best & he was not a finisher. He never could put guys away when he had them in trouble. I always thought he was an underachiever & that's coming from a fan who followed his career from the beginning.

Impractical Poster wrote:I'm thinking that the people who picked Ward either have no idea who Golota is or just aren't that familiar with him.

Absolutely right...I think a lot of commenters here know of Golota's dirty tactics through watching "highlight" videos. Golota didnt just throw low blows. He BIT Samson Pouha and gave a vicious intentional head butt to Danell Nicholson.

Furthermore, Ward's low blows were borderline/beltline and didnt land on the super-vulnerable genitals, as opposed to Golota who aimed straight for the gonads.

Golota was a barroom brawler who fought even dirtier OUTSIDE the ring!! He actually fled Poland in 1990 for the US to avoid prosecution on assault & battery charges for beating down a guy in a Polish bar.

BOTTOM LINE: This thread comparing Golota and Ward is Drama Queen Nonsense!!

... and Ward didn't give vicious intentional head butts ???

What's definitely worse in Ward's case is that he is doing all that dirty stuff being absolutely cold blooded. Tyson lost it when he bit Hollyfield, the same with Golota or Maidana, but Ward is a cold blooded dirty bastard.

joe strong wrote: Andrew Golota is one of my all-time favourites. I have most of his fights. He was a very dirty fighter

He cleaned up his act. He did nothing wrong in the two championship fights where he was robbed by the judges, Byrd and Ruiz.

& Randy Neuman was only the ref of his fights twice.

Nope. Four fights: Ruiz, Byrd, Grant, and Mike Mollo. And 3 out of those 4 were controversial.

Once against Byrd & the other against Grant. There are no mysteries about his fights.

Au contrare - The Grant fight, the Lewis fight, the Tyson fight, him impersonating a police officer, his close connection with the Polish mafia - and what role did they play? Why was his friend, the Polish mafia boss, bumped off as soon as he returned to Poland after the Grant fight?

He had a great jab & solid boxing skills but he struggled the minute he faced any sort of adversity. He fell apart on multiple occasions. Even his former trainers said this. When he got into trouble he would headbutt, low blow or just simply quit. His chin wasn't the best & he was not a finisher. He never could put guys away when he had them in trouble. I always thought he was an underachiever & that's coming from a fan who followed his career from the beginning.

I have no argument with your last paragraph.

x2x wrote:

joe strong wrote: Andrew Golota is one of my all-time favourites. I have most of his fights. He was a very dirty fighter

He cleaned up his act. He did nothing wrong in the two championship fights where he was robbed by the judges, Byrd and Ruiz.

& Randy Neuman was only the ref of his fights twice.

Nope. Four fights: Ruiz, Byrd, Grant, and Mike Mollo. And 3 out of those 4 were controversial.

Once against Byrd & the other against Grant. There are no mysteries about his fights.

Au contrare - The Grant fight, the Lewis fight, the Tyson fight, him impersonating a police officer, his close connection with the Polish mafia - and what role did they play? Why was his friend, the Polish mafia boss, bumped off as soon as he returned to Poland after the Grant fight?

He had a great jab & solid boxing skills but he struggled the minute he faced any sort of adversity. He fell apart on multiple occasions. Even his former trainers said this. When he got into trouble he would headbutt, low blow or just simply quit. His chin wasn't the best & he was not a finisher. He never could put guys away when he had them in trouble. I always thought he was an underachiever & that's coming from a fan who followed his career from the beginning.

I have no argument with your last paragraph.

He cleaned it up later in his career but he was a menace coming up. He had some pretty questionable moves but he did it to intimidate his opponents. I forgot Neuman was the ref for Mollo & Ruiz as well. I guess a quick look would of helped before I posted that. Too many fights to remember. What mysteries about the Grant, Lewis & Tyson fights? He lost a tough fight to Grant, Got blown out by Lewis & had a meltdown & quit against Tyson. I don't know what happened there but he quit which completely infuriated his corner so if there was something shady going on I doubt they were in on it. I don't really follow the out of the ring stuff. I just watch the fights. I don't think he was robbed in either the Byrd or Ruiz fights. They were close & could of went his way though. If I remember correctly he dropped both Ruiz & Byrd in those fights but couldn't finish either of them. It's been a few years since I watched them fights so details are a little unclear. I have 2 copies of Golota/Ruiz fight. One version in Kingvision with Bob Sheridan & the other HBO. It was like watching 2 different fights. I actually posted about it on another sight in 2010... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... JGRFLafXTQ

Golota threw worse low blows. He was warned that if he did it again it would cost him the fight and he did it anyway because he was nasty and wanted to hurt Bowe if he could. Golota seemed to be a dumbass to me, though maybe I'm not being fair and he just had a couple of bad days that I happened to see. In any event, his low blows were called and cost him accordingly.

Ward is anything but a dumbass. He punches low and uses other dirty tactics in a way that is calculated to actually help him get the win. His second low blow of the fight against Kovalev in the 7th (by recollection there was one in the 4th that Weeks called and gave the Russian time to recover) was thrown when he probably saw that Weeks would be out of position to see it, though I would think an experienced referee like Weeks would figure it out. Fighting dirty is part of boxing. Harry Greb, Fritzie Zivik, Bernard Hopkins and MANY other ATG fighters were notorious for doing things to hurt, wear down or infuriate their opponents that were illegal. Ward is in that tradition in that if he were warned, penalized or otherwise not permitted to continue with such tactics, I think he would have stopped. He did what he was allowed to do to win, and he was in a very bitter and dangerous fight. He got the win, fine, but Ward and his fans need to be less sensitive about the criticism which just comes with the territory.

I voted for Golota. If he could have controlled his emotions he might have been a champion.

Ward. Golota was held accountable for being dirty. Ward is not.

willyjwalsh wrote:Golota threw worse low blows. He was warned that if he did it again it would cost him the fight and he did it anyway because he was nasty and wanted to hurt Bowe if he could. Golota seemed to be a dumbass to me, though maybe I'm not being fair and he just had a couple of bad days that I happened to see. In any event, his low blows were called and cost him accordingly.

Ward is anything but a dumbass. He punches low and uses other dirty tactics in a way that is calculated to actually help him get the win. His second low blow of the fight against Kovalev in the 7th (by recollection there was one in the 4th that Weeks called and gave the Russian time to recover) was thrown when he probably saw that Weeks would be out of position to see it, though I would think an experienced referee like Weeks would figure it out. Fighting dirty is part of boxing. Harry Greb, Fritzie Zivik, Bernard Hopkins and MANY other ATG fighters were notorious for doing things to hurt, wear down or infuriate their opponents that were illegal. Ward is in that tradition in that if he were warned, penalized or otherwise not permitted to continue with such tactics, I think he would have stopped. He did what he was allowed to do to win, and he was in a very bitter and dangerous fight. He got the win, fine, but Ward and his fans need to be less sensitive about the criticism which just comes with the territory.

I voted for Golota. If he could have controlled his emotions he might have been a champion.

Golota threw more obvious low blows, because he was angry. Ward is a cold blooded dirty piece of sh!t who fouls on purpose and is trying it to look borderline, unintentional, etc.

boxing_rocks wrote:
Golota threw more obvious low blows, because he was angry. Ward is a cold blooded dirty piece of sh!t who fouls on purpose and is trying it to look borderline, unintentional, etc.

..I don't think he was giving a damn, intentional or not...he knew he was gonna get away with a murder..

So how come nobody brings up Evander Holyfield? He was a dirty fighter like Ward. Nobody in the history of boxing could get away with a blatant headbutt better than Holyfield. He could time a punch almost simultaneously following a headbutt & get away with it in front of the referee. Look at the Rahman eliminator or the Tyson fights. I can't think of any headbutt he got warned for off hand. I can't recall if he got any in the Tyson fights as it has been many years since I watched those fights. His head was an effective weapon & it got his opponents off their game plans because they had to be aware of it...

joe strong wrote: He cleaned it up later in his career but he was a menace coming up. He had some pretty questionable moves but he did it to intimidate his opponents. I forgot Neuman was the ref for Mollo & Ruiz as well. I guess a quick look would of helped before I posted that. Too many fights to remember. What mysteries about the Grant, Lewis & Tyson fights?

Which one do you want to start with? I don't want to write a whole book here.

He lost a tough fight to Grant, Got blown out by Lewis & had a meltdown & quit against Tyson. I don't know what happened there but he quit which completely infuriated his corner so if there was something shady going on I doubt they were in on it.

No, Lou Duva, his corner they weren't in on it. Clearly they weren't in on his life outside the ring. For instance Lou Duva was going crazy when he walked away from Tyson...and he was so strong that he was actually winning round two even tho all he wanted to do was go home! Similarly his team was going crazy right before the Lewis fight when none of them even knew where the hell he was.

I don't really follow the out of the ring stuff. I just watch the fights. I don't think he was robbed in either the Byrd or Ruiz fights.

Most people thought he was robbed. I know everybody in the big saloon where i watched the Byrd fight was shocked and outraged. I didn't see one who felt otherwise, including those who were rooting for Byrd. Like I said, Neuman failed to call three knockdowns.

They were close & could of went his way though. If I remember correctly he dropped both Ruiz & Byrd in those fights but couldn't finish either of them.

True enough he was not a good finisher, and he was certainly not a good opener either.

It's been a few years since I watched them fights so details are a little unclear. I have 2 copies of Golota/Ruiz fight. One version in Kingvision with Bob Sheridan & the other HBO. It was like watching 2 different fights. I actually posted about it on another sight in 2010... https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... JGRFLafXTQ

You can rewatch them to refresh your memory. I just rewatched the Grant fight, tho it was an abbreviated version. You certainly can rewatch them as you have the best collection of boxing videos in the world!