Did Wilt Chamberlain use an unrealistic tax demand to back out of the Ali fight?

[gilgamesh]

These threads have made me glad Wilt Chamberlain's dead. He doesn't deserve that, but that's what Kalan's done to his legacy for me with this bullsh*t.

Now if only these threads could die forever.

Wilt Chamberlain didn't deserve that way he was treated by Boxing... He was used for publicity and the story of the coming Chamberlain-Ali Fight hit the media all over the world... These were the 2 best known athletes on the planet...so these stories were media magnets, milked for all they were worth.

But in the end Chamberlain was only being used for his name and fame... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Chamberlain begs Ali to sign the contract and only wants to know WHEN Ali will sign... Ali keeps saying "Don't rush things" Boxing is truly a business

Wilt Chamberlain doesn't belong in conversations about Boxing. F*CK OFF WITH THE CHAMBERLAIN BULLSH*T!

And while I'm at it..APerno...why dude? Why? Why did you do this?

[Kalan]

Aperno did it because It's a legitimate topic about the History of Boxing...

Chamberlain was supposed to get an Ali fight... That's what the TV shows they did for publicity said... they said Chamberlain and Ali were FIGHTING!!! ... It was big news all over the world... The fact Ali wouldn't sign to fight Chamberlain wasn't such big news... It was a downer and not headline worthy.

[Tony1244]

Ali-Chamberlain would have been stupid.

Just like Ali-Inoki was stupid.

Just like Mayweather-McGregor is stupid.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't stupid.

[gilgamesh]

Ali-Chamberlain would have been stupid.

Just like Ali-Inoki was stupid.

Just like Mayweather-McGregor is stupid.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't stupid.

Gotta disagree with you on Mayweather vs McGregor. I'm one of the few Boxing fans who gets it and likes it a little.

If Mayweather was still the active, reigning P4P king of the sport I'd have a problem with it. Since he's a retired fighter coming back for one last event to show that even a retired boxer can box the ears off of a Prime UFC Champion...I kinda like it.

[Kalan]

Ali-Chamberlain would have been stupid.

Just like Ali-Inoki was stupid.

Just like Mayweather-McGregor is stupid.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't stupid.

Ali-Onoki WAS stupid---on Ali's part -- but it was unintentionally FUNNY as HELL!!! --- And Inoki-Ali made a lot of money for the promoters and Inoki..

Plus Inoki landed 100 X more blows than Ali landed.. Ali didn't land a single telling punch and got his legs kicked to death.. I LOL because they allowed Inoke to kick Ali's legs with wrestling shoes WTF??? -- but it was a Boxing controlled event so they called it a draw.. I was watching it and knew it would be a draw despite Ali being outlanded 100-1.. Everytime Inoki grabbed hold of Ali the referee jumped in and separated them.. I LMAO at that, because this contest was SUPPOSED to be Boxing vs Wrestling -- only no wrestling was allowed... Ali needed to be hospitalized to have his legs treated.

Mayweather-McGregor is Boxing vs MMA but only Boxing is allowed... Therefore if McGregor wins (fat chance) or does really well, Boxing will be disgraced... However I've had a sneaky feeling all along this will be so one-sided it's ridiculous... It's really the Snake River Canyon Motorcycle Jump.

Chamberlain-Ali would have been a spectacular event... Because Chamberlain was an extremely spectacular athlete who could do things no other man alive could do...like score 100 points in an NBA game with the whole other team concentrating on stopping him in the 4th quarter and literally pounding him and hanging on him while he shook them off and continued to score... Chamberlain was such a fast, powerful, and unstoppable athlete the fear was Ali would never get into a ring with him because Ali would be smashed out colder than 7 barrels of penguin sh!t... That fear came to pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[hhaehre]

Valuev has an 85" reach liar.. He's one of the least athletic men who ever inhabited the earth

Yet, what he accomplished in boxing stomps all over your imaginary boxing career.

[hhaehre]

Kalan, Nikolai Valuev is 7' tall with an 86" reach. How do you think Ali would have done against him?

Steve, please don't sir!

The real question has to be whether the Ali brothers could beat Wilt in a two against one fight? I believe the combined reach and height of Muhammed and Rahman would be greater than that of the mighty Wilt. Could the height and reach advantage offset the greater natural talent of Wilt? Only Kalan would be able to break this one down.

[APerno]

These threads have made me glad Wilt Chamberlain's dead. He doesn't deserve that, but that's what Kalan's done to his legacy for me with this bullsh*t.

Now if only these threads could die forever.

Wilt Chamberlain didn't deserve that way he was treated by Boxing... He was used for publicity and the story of the coming Chamberlain-Ali Fight hit the media all over the world... These were the 2 best known athletes on the planet...so these stories were media magnets, milked for all they were worth.

But in the end Chamberlain was only being used for his name and fame... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Chamberlain begs Ali to sign the contract and only wants to know WHEN Ali will sign... Ali keeps saying "Don't rush things" Boxing is truly a business

Wilt Chamberlain doesn't belong in conversations about Boxing. F*CK OFF WITH THE CHAMBERLAIN BULLSH*T!

And while I'm at it..APerno...why dude? Why? Why did you do this?

I foolishly though the article would make Kalan take a second look; I can not see how anyone can draw any conclusion from the article except that Chamberlain wanted out of the fight. His demand of a tax free paycheck is absurd; Ali's people, nor any promoter can meet that condition. It's federal for Christ sake. Chamberlain made a deliberately impossible demand and it ended the nonsense. (They had milked it for three years.) Anyway that's what I see in the article; why I posted.

[BoxBuzz]

I appreciate it...and liked having it added to the record.


What mystifies me, isn't that this is sort of a semi garbage historical occurrence that we are discussing here...that's a given. I'm mystified by the visceral reaction to it.... It's just something that happened....and regardless of the variety of odd opinions that abound, what is about this that get everyone's undies in a bundle?

I'm convinced that it was Wilt's shorts that were brown stained, I guess at least one of us think it was Ali's.

But so what? One opinion is probably right the other probably wrong.....I know clearly what camp I'm in....Kalan appears to know what camp he's in.

Ain't that what makes a conversation?

And if it's all the speculation and gossip that is connected to this....well that's par for the course.


I don't get the hyperventilation aspect.




However....maybe I do understand in a limited way. E.G. I know for a FACT that the shot that connected to Liston's noggin in the second fight with Ali was FULLY CAPABLE based on physics to create the outcome we all witnessed, and so man of us doubt. But I'm unable to communicate this successfully to many readers whom I fully respect. And that sort of always draws me in to that specific conversation....because it is forensically sound science and can be proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt. Not absolutely of course....but far beyond a high likelihood.

This subject, Wilt vs Ali, is far more guesstimating about motives, fears, and personal internal processing between two celebrities. And it's harder to prove....but preponderance of the evidence would have me on the side of Chamberlains lack of genuineness in this caper.

But in the end....it's far more of a guess about the human condition....and less about physics.

[Kalan]

His demand of a tax free paycheck is absurd; Ali's people, nor any promoter can meet that condition. It's federal for Christ sake. Chamberlain made a deliberately impossible demand and it ended the nonsense. (They had milked it for three years.) Anyway that's what I see in the article; why I posted.

That's an insane conclusion to draw... Chamberlain wanted to be the Heavyweight Champion of the World, but he was given the run-around.. Ali was the perfect opponent for him and that's the big reason Chamberlain considered it a perfect fight for him ... That's why the first 1971 contact he signed ([Ali refused to sign the 1971 OR the 1967 contracts]) stipulated that Ali MUST beat Frazier in their World Title Fight... After Ali lost the Title Fight to Frazier Chamberlain was no longer interested... Promoters still came to him and said there was monster money in the fight... There WAS, but no Title.

But back in 1966, D'Amato and Patterson, ([who Chamberlain consulted with]), told Wilt that Ali was the perfect opponent for him. Ali had no body attack and was easy to hit with both jabs and straight rights.. Ali was also vulnerable to left hooks and right hooks.. Not many boxers threw right hooks at Ali but Karl Mildenberger nailed Ali with them.. Mildenberger simply lacked the height, weight, reach, or strength to compete with a guy Ali's size - and Karl was a terrible, clumsy athlete.. Chamberlain was a super powerful and fast 7'1" X 290 with a reach of 101 inches.. Jim Brown called Wilt "The World's Greatest Athlete" and offered to help train Chamberlain for Ali on the strength and nutrition side.. Cus D'Amato---who trained the 2 youngest Heavyweight Champions in History would be Chamberlain's chief boxing trainer.

Though Ali lost the Title Fight, Ali-Frazier pulled in many millions.. Ali and Frazier were paid 5 million and Jerry Perenchio made millions more on top of that haul.. Promoters were still interested in Chamberlain-Ali... The fight would electrify the planet.. Chamberlain was told and believed that there was more than enough money in the fight to pay him his modest request.. But the fight WASN'T going to be for the Heavyweight Championship of the World so Chamberlain's interest in it dropped from a 20 on a scale of 10 -- to a 3.. He basically told the promoters that Ali was NOT interested in fighting him and to "Show me a contract with Ali's signature on it and I'll sign it." Chambrelain had been through the Dog & Pony Shows with Ali for the 1967 fight and Ali never signed ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... He was fed up with Ali... Who wouldn't be???

[Kalan]

[quote="BoxBuzz"]shorts that were brown stained, I guess at least one of us think it was Ali's.[/url]

Now why would anyone draw the conclusion that Ali was scared from this video??????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

And your face is stained brown with the stuff by nestling it between so many cheeks.

[Kalan]

I foolishly though the article would make Kalan take a second look

I would like YOU to take a 2nd look... Chamberlain was used by Boxing for his immense celebrity... Ali was NEVER sincere about fighting Chamberlain or he WOULD have fought him... He WOULD have signed to fight him... But he refused to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Tomasino]

Let's be honest here, Kalan is batshit insane.

[Kalan]

Forget about insanity Tomashole... You're well past that stage... You're the vermin that inhabits the batshit when it's 3 weeks old.

[Tony1244]

Ali-Chamberlain would have been stupid.

Just like Ali-Inoki was stupid.

Just like Mayweather-McGregor is stupid.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't stupid.

Ali-Onoki WAS stupid---on Ali's part -- but it was unintentionally FUNNY as HELL!!! --- And Inoki-Ali made a lot of money for the promoters and Inoki..

Plus Inoki landed 100 X more blows than Ali landed.. Ali didn't land a single telling punch and got his legs kicked to death.. I LOL because they allowed Inoke to kick Ali's legs with wrestling shoes WTF??? -- but it was a Boxing controlled event so they called it a draw.. I was watching it and knew it would be a draw despite Ali being outlanded 100-1.. Everytime Inoki grabbed hold of Ali the referee jumped in and separated them.. I LMAO at that, because this contest was SUPPOSED to be Boxing vs Wrestling -- only no wrestling was allowed... Ali needed to be hospitalized to have his legs treated.

Mayweather-McGregor is Boxing vs MMA but only Boxing is allowed... Therefore if McGregor wins (fat chance) or does really well, Boxing will be disgraced... However I've had a sneaky feeling all along this will be so one-sided it's ridiculous... It's really the Snake River Canyon Motorcycle Jump.

Chamberlain-Ali would have been a spectacular event... Because Chamberlain was an extremely spectacular athlete who could do things no other man alive could do...like score 100 points in an NBA game with the whole other team concentrating on stopping him in the 4th quarter and literally pounding him and hanging on him while he shook them off and continued to score... Chamberlain was such a fast, powerful, and unstoppable athlete the fear was Ali would never get into a ring with him because Ali would be smashed out colder than 7 barrels of penguin sh!t... That fear came to pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

Chamberlain was an extraordinary athlete and May vs McG is a joke, agreed there. But with no boxing experience, Wilt would have had no chance. Zero. I didn't find Ali-Enoki funny, but Andre vs Wepner was great theater.

[Tony1244]

Ali-Chamberlain would have been stupid.

Just like Ali-Inoki was stupid.

Just like Mayweather-McGregor is stupid.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't stupid.

Gotta disagree with you on Mayweather vs McGregor. I'm one of the few Boxing fans who gets it and likes it a little.

If Mayweather was still the active, reigning P4P king of the sport I'd have a problem with it. Since he's a retired fighter coming back for one last event to show that even a retired boxer can box the ears off of a Prime UFC Champion...I kinda like it.

I'm one of the few boxing fans who didn't think Foreman vs 5 in Toronto was so terrible. It was a glorified sparring session and it was fun to watch. A little like wrestling but I think it was "real" in the sense if Jerry Judge or any of the others could have KOd Foreman (fat chance) they would have, but I digress. If May vs McG was MMA rules it would be interesting because the boxer would have a puncher's chance. Nothing I've seen in McG makes this competitive IMO, but we'll see.

[Kalan]

Besides the fact Ali refused to sign to fight Chamberlain -- there's a question about the Ali-Inoki event I would like answered.

NOBODY ever explained why Muhammad Ali could not land a single telling blow on non-boxer Antonio Inoki for 15 rounds... It was supposed to be “Boxing vs Wrestling” but Ali threatened to pull out of the so-called fight if severe restrictions weren’t placed on Inoki, who wanted an actual fight.

best-selling author Robert Whiting --- “Because a wrestler can do so many things. He can get around a boxer. Get him in a full nelson. He can do drop kicks and all sorts of stuff. Just before the contest this dawned on Ali. Ali got cold feet. That’s how the event wound up being a complete fiasco. Ali and Dundee said there would be no fight, demanded a referee of their choice, and demanded the contract be rewritten to disallow wrestling tactics of any kind.”

Both sides convened for a series of meetings at the Keio Plaza Hotel to hammer out the rules of the bout. The result was a long list of restrictions on Inoki that helped turn the bout into a laughing stock. Inoki was not allowed to throw, grapple or tackle Ali. Any kicks he launched in the boxer’s direction had to be to the back of Ali’s legs. Ali’s camp also insisted that the rules would NOT be made public because “nobody will want to see the fight.”

It was alleged that members of Ali’s entourage threatened Inoki in the event that he harmed the boxer in any way. Even with all the restrictions on Inoki, Ali was not able to win the “fight” or land a single telling blow on a non-boxer for 15 rounds.

Inoki landed so many blows to the back of Ali’s legs — the only thing he was allowed to do — that Ali had to be hospitalized with severe blood clots on his legs. Inoki never boxed or defended punches in his life before setting up training camp for Ali, but Ali was only able to throw 6 punches in 15 rounds – with only 2 “punches” making minimal soft contact. The so-called fight got boos and cat-calls throughout. Inoki only went through with it because there was millions of dollars involved. "It was very unfair to me, but I knew it would make me rich and famous worldwide. It launched my career."

[Kalan]

Chamberlain was an extraordinary athlete and May vs McG is a joke, agreed there. But with no boxing experience, Wilt would have had no chance. Zero. I didn't find Ali-Enoki funny, but Andre vs Wepner was great theater.

Chamberlain was such an outstanding athlete -- and could exchange punches with such speed and power -- that Ali would soon be mince meat.

Andre the Giant was the world's worst athlete. He couldn't even run or jump well, yet Wepner -- who went 15 rounds with Ali -- couldn't hurt him.

After 3 rounds of nothing much happening, Andre grabbed Chuck Wepner and flung him out of the ring -- ending the so called "fight."

The whole night was an embarrassment ... and total disgrace for Boxing.

[Tony1244]

Chamberlain was an extraordinary athlete and May vs McG is a joke, agreed there. But with no boxing experience, Wilt would have had no chance. Zero. I didn't find Ali-Enoki funny, but Andre vs Wepner was great theater.

Chamberlain was such an outstanding athlete -- and could exchange punches with such speed and power -- that Ali would soon be mince meat.

Andre the Giant was the world's worst athlete. He couldn't even run or jump well, yet Wepner -- who went 15 rounds with Ali -- couldn't hurt him.

After 3 rounds of nothing much happening, Andre grabbed Chuck Wepner and flung him out of the ring -- ending the so called "fight."

The whole night was an embarrassment ... and total disgrace for Boxing.

I could be wrong of course but I think Andre vs Wepner was more theater than fight. I don't think Andre wanted to break Chuck's neck.

People who believe Wilt would have beaten Al either know nothing about boxing or are looking for a reaction. You may be in your own category; you know a lot of detail about the HW division so I don't see you as being in the former category. My theory is that you were a H U G E and I mean H U G E Wilt fan. Some people get annoyed by your Wilt stuff but I think you're trying to get a rise out of people and/or see the guy as a God.

[APerno]

His demand of a tax free paycheck is absurd; Ali's people, nor any promoter can meet that condition. It's federal for Christ sake. Chamberlain made a deliberately impossible demand and it ended the nonsense. (They had milked it for three years.) Anyway that's what I see in the article; why I posted.

That's an insane conclusion to draw... Chamberlain wanted to be the Heavyweight Champion of the World, but he was given the run-around.. Ali was the perfect opponent for him and that's the big reason Chamberlain considered it a perfect fight for him ... That's why the first 1971 contact he signed ([Ali refused to sign the 1971 OR the 1967 contracts]) stipulated that Ali MUST beat Frazier in their World Title Fight... After Ali lost the Title Fight to Frazier Chamberlain was no longer interested... Promoters still came to him and said there was monster money in the fight... There WAS, but no Title.

But back in 1966, D'Amato and Patterson, ([who Chamberlain consulted with]), told Wilt that Ali was the perfect opponent for him. Ali had no body attack and was easy to hit with both jabs and straight rights.. Ali was also vulnerable to left hooks and right hooks.. Not many boxers threw right hooks at Ali but Karl Mildenberger nailed Ali with them.. Mildenberger simply lacked the height, weight, reach, or strength to compete with a guy Ali's size - and Karl was a terrible, clumsy athlete.. Chamberlain was a super powerful and fast 7'1" X 290 with a reach of 101 inches.. Jim Brown called Wilt "The World's Greatest Athlete" and offered to help train Chamberlain for Ali on the strength and nutrition side.. Cus D'Amato---who trained the 2 youngest Heavyweight Champions in History would be Chamberlain's chief boxing trainer.

Though Ali lost the Title Fight, Ali-Frazier pulled in many millions.. Ali and Frazier were paid 5 million and Jerry Perenchio made millions more on top of that haul.. Promoters were still interested in Chamberlain-Ali... The fight would electrify the planet.. Chamberlain was told and believed that there was more than enough money in the fight to pay him his modest request.. But the fight WASN'T going to be for the Heavyweight Championship of the World so Chamberlain's interest in it dropped from a 20 on a scale of 10 -- to a 3.. He basically told the promoters that Ali was NOT interested in fighting him and to "Show me a contract with Ali's signature on it and I'll sign it." Chambrelain had been through the Dog & Pony Shows with Ali for the 1967 fight and Ali never signed ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... He was fed up with Ali... Who wouldn't be???

I will concede that it is possible that Chamberlain made such an absurd request (tax free paycheck) because he was tired of being jerked around by Ali's people - maybe. Making an absurd request is one way of flipping off someone you feel is disrespecting you. -

[littlepug]

just googled this wilt chamberlain character, he once scored a hundred points in a single basketball game which is apparently pretty good because it means he threw that ball and made it go through the hoop loads of times, crikey no wonder Ali ducked him

[Kalan]

He did a HELL of a lot more than hold the record for scoring the most points (100) in a game in NBA history... He ALSO holds the record for the most rebounds pulled down in a game.. Most points scored in a season.. Highest average points scored in a season... Highest rebound average in a season.. Most free throws made in a game. Led the league in minutes played the most seasons.. played the most games while never fouling out of a game and many other individual records.. He even achieved the most assists in one season which emphasizes passing skills.. If blocked shots were counted as a stat when he was playing he'd have that record.. Nobody ever dominated on both ends of the court like Chamberlain and he is a HOFer in 2 sports.

If people have the weird idea that Ali had surpassing boxing skills and defensive skills -- like a Floyd Mayweather -- they don't know Boxing... It would be easy for Chamberlain with his height, weight, reach, speed, power, vision, and other athletic gifts to penetrate Ali's defense and and blast him out quickly... That's why Ali absolutely REFUSED to sign a contract to fight Chamberlain -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

You think Mike Tyson was a better boxer than undefeated Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks??? ... NOPE!!! ... He just had the physical assets to SMASH him.

[Flump]

just googled this wilt chamberlain character, he once scored a hundred points in a single basketball game which is apparently pretty good because it means he threw that ball and made it go through the hoop loads of times, crikey no wonder Ali ducked him

Yeah for years I just though he was some bloke in Conan. Didn't realise that he was in fact the great uncrowned all time greatest heavyweight with devastating power and cast iron chin.

[Kalan]

Yeah... Wilt also worked as an actor and that part was when he was about 50.. As if Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Patterson didn't do gigs as actors. Not in productions that were as widely viewed of course... Everybody saw Conan the Destroyer and that was no bit part... Chamberlain was the chief villain.

[Kalan]

His demand of a tax free paycheck is absurd; Ali's people, nor any promoter can meet that condition. It's federal for Christ sake. Chamberlain made a deliberately impossible demand and it ended the nonsense. (They had milked it for three years.) Anyway that's what I see in the article; why I posted.

That's an insane conclusion to draw... Chamberlain wanted to be the Heavyweight Champion of the World, but he was given the run-around.. Ali was the perfect opponent for him and that's the big reason Chamberlain considered it a perfect fight for him ... That's why the first 1971 contact he signed ([Ali refused to sign the 1971 OR the 1967 contracts]) stipulated that Ali MUST beat Frazier in their World Title Fight... After Ali lost the Title Fight to Frazier Chamberlain was no longer interested... Promoters still came to him and said there was monster money in the fight... There WAS, but no Title.

But back in 1966, D'Amato and Patterson, ([who Chamberlain consulted with]), told Wilt that Ali was the perfect opponent for him. Ali had no body attack and was easy to hit with both jabs and straight rights.. Ali was also vulnerable to left hooks and right hooks.. Not many boxers threw right hooks at Ali but Karl Mildenberger nailed Ali with them.. Mildenberger simply lacked the height, weight, reach, or strength to compete with a guy Ali's size - and Karl was a terrible, clumsy athlete.. Chamberlain was a super powerful and fast 7'1" X 290 with a reach of 101 inches.. Jim Brown called Wilt "The World's Greatest Athlete" and offered to help train Chamberlain for Ali on the strength and nutrition side.. Cus D'Amato---who trained the 2 youngest Heavyweight Champions in History would be Chamberlain's chief boxing trainer.

Though Ali lost the Title Fight, Ali-Frazier pulled in many millions.. Ali and Frazier were paid 5 million and Jerry Perenchio made millions more on top of that haul.. Promoters were still interested in Chamberlain-Ali... The fight would electrify the planet.. Chamberlain was told and believed that there was more than enough money in the fight to pay him his modest request.. But the fight WASN'T going to be for the Heavyweight Championship of the World so Chamberlain's interest in it dropped from a 20 on a scale of 10 -- to a 3.. He basically told the promoters that Ali was NOT interested in fighting him and to "Show me a contract with Ali's signature on it and I'll sign it." Chambrelain had been through the Dog & Pony Shows with Ali for the 1967 fight and Ali never signed ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ... He was fed up with Ali... Who wouldn't be???

I will concede that it is possible that Chamberlain made such an absurd request (tax free paycheck) because he was tired of being jerked around by Ali's people - maybe. Making an absurd request is one way of flipping off someone you feel is disrespecting you. -

Now you're starting to get it... I knew somebody with a brain would invade the thread at one time or another. They were really disrespecting the public.

However -- the request was far from absurd when you realize the money in the Ali-Frazier Fights---even after they both got their asses kicked.. Both celebrity and extremely unusual match-ups are great box office.. That's why they expected massive money for Ali-Inoki and Bobby Riggs vs Billy Jean King.

However... In the case of Ali-Inoki they reworked the contract in secret so Inoki wasn't allowed to wrestle -- so it was a fraud on the public.