BoxRec

It's relevant in as much as fans have the debate...and argue over it...sort of end of a boozy night conversation.

It's Fury or Joshua. But more Fury's than Joshua's.

Ezzard wrote:It's relevant in as much as fans have the debate...and argue over it...sort of end of a boozy night conversation.

It's Fury or Joshua. But more Fury's than Joshua's.

That's more p4p, lineal is far below that.

Taansend wrote:No one, as Fury hasn't fought in over a year.

When he fights a significant opponent he'll be number one.

You think the lineal champion is stripped if they are inactive for only a year?

Ridiculous.

I like the lineal title, the only draw back is it isn't an indicator of who the best is. Though I like to plot it's history through the heavyweight division, less so for other weight classes for some reason, most of the top fighters have held it at heavyweight at some point.

With fury beating the man that reigned for over 11 years and getting stripped straight away i think he should be able to call a title shot at anytime and be the challenger to the title he chooses to regain,obviously the WBO WBA and IBF. It was obvious that these organisations didnt want fury as their champion,regardless of him supposedly failing a drug test.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Nobody at the moment.

Anthony Joshua is the #1 Heavyweight right now.

A fight between him and Joshua or him and Wilder would make him Lineal Champ.

Beating Wladimir Klitschko made him the man to beat, but it didn't make him Lineal Champ as Wladimir had lost the title in his last fight to Fury, and wasn't even ranked coming into the fight with Joshua due to such a lengthy activity. Legend though he is, it was a great win for Joshua and of course elevated Wladimir right back to near the top of the rankings, but Joshua can't be considered Lineal champ off of this win under the circumstances.

Wlad was lineal

Fury beat Wlad and became lineal

Until fury is officially retired from the sport, he's still lineal

Fury did retire, he gave up all his belts and hasn't fought for ages. Again, it's a complete meaningless crown in today's sport, but I'd consider vacant or Joshua every bit as valid an answer as fury.

It is meaningless and has been for about twenty years since big George was lineal and Briggs beat him, despite the fact there were about 5 heavyweights clearly better.

If it's nots fury it's nobody.

chinarich wrote:This is an interesting debate. It seems fairly incontestable that Fury is the Lineal Champion, but let's say that he comes back and takes a warm-up fight against someone fringe top 15 like, say, Dominic Brezeale and lost, would people then consider Brezeale the lineal heavyweight champion?

Yep, the title would pass to 'the man who beat the man'.
Much like the lineal title passed to Shannon Briggs when he got the decision over George Foreman. Foreman did not hold the WBC, WBA, IBF or WBO belts at that time.
Lennox Lewis became the lineal champion when he beat Briggs. etc etc.
The distiction of being lineal champion is what it is, whether some folks like it or not.

Ossyrules wrote:He relinquished his title. His own personal statement

Wrong, the IBF stripped their title from him.
He only relinquished the WBA, WBO and IBO titles. Not his heavyweight title lineage.
Fury is also still recognised by the Ring Magazine and he holds their title and belt.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ezzard wrote:It's relevant in as much as fans have the debate...and argue over it...sort of end of a boozy night conversation.

It's Fury or Joshua. But more Fury's than Joshua's.

That's more p4p, lineal is far below that.

It's a nice romantic notion but now irrelevant to the sport today unless, like Fury, you're looking for an angle. But for boxing geeks like me the lineal means something...

Reading through the various posts on here, I think there is some confusion over what the lineal title actually means.

Lineal = Line of succession. There is no physical belt, trophy or award attached to it. Just a listing in the history books.

It is identical to the historical lineage of Kings and Queens. There cannot be a new one until the existing one is beaten in battle, abdicates (retires) or dies.

If Fury never fights again because he officially announces his retirement, is banned from boxing or dies, then a new lineage can be created. For this to happen the #1 and #2 boxers would have to fight. At the present time I assume that would be AJ and Wilder.

SteveO wrote:

chinarich wrote:This is an interesting debate. It seems fairly incontestable that Fury is the Lineal Champion, but let's say that he comes back and takes a warm-up fight against someone fringe top 15 like, say, Dominic Brezeale and lost, would people then consider Brezeale the lineal heavyweight champion?

Yep, the title would pass to 'the man who beat the man'.
Much like the lineal title passed to Shannon Briggs when he got the decision over George Foreman. Foreman did not hold the WBC, WBA, IBF or WBO belts at that time.
Lennox Lewis became the lineal champion when he beat Briggs. etc etc.
The distiction of being lineal champion is what it is, whether some folks like it or not.

Yup, it's opinion. Some cling to it as fact.

SteveO wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:He relinquished his title. His own personal statement

Wrong, the IBF stripped their title from him.
He only relinquished the WBA, WBO and IBO titles. Not his heavyweight title lineage.
Fury is also still recognised by the Ring Magazine and he holds their title and belt.

The ring isn't lineal, they just usually to the same line.

This is where it becomes bullshit.

But let's be honest, outside of Joshue-Wilder/Fury-Wilder the match everyone wants to see is Joshua-Fury and that's because it's the biggest fight that can be made at the weight.

I'd have preferred Klitschko to fight Wilder rather than rematch Joshua but hey ho.

SteveO wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:He relinquished his title. His own personal statement

Wrong, the IBF stripped their title from him.
He only relinquished the WBA, WBO and IBO titles. Not his heavyweight title lineage.
Fury is also still recognised by the Ring Magazine and he holds their title and belt.

That's not my quote?

SteveO wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:He relinquished his title. His own personal statement

Wrong, the IBF stripped their title from him.
He only relinquished the WBA, WBO and IBO titles. Not his heavyweight title lineage.
Fury is also still recognised by the Ring Magazine and he holds their title and belt.

Tbf steve fury relinquished them before he was stripped,he beat the man that beat everyone so when he comes back fight the champions that are there and reclaim the crown,if he can. Personally i dont think he can but will be good to see.

thechump wrote:

SteveO wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:He relinquished his title. His own personal statement

Wrong, the IBF stripped their title from him.
He only relinquished the WBA, WBO and IBO titles. Not his heavyweight title lineage.
Fury is also still recognised by the Ring Magazine and he holds their title and belt.

Tbf steve fury relinquished them before he was stripped,he beat the man that beat everyone so when he comes back fight the champions that are there and reclaim the crown,if he can. Personally i dont think he can but will be good to see.

Yes, he relinquished the belts because allegedly he was ill and wanted to take some time out.
Since then he has been the subject of a VADA investigation. Last I heard the inquiry will resume in October.
If Fury gets his licence returned and comes back to try and reclaim his belts, I agree he would face a struggle to do so.
Whoever he may fight in a comeback contest though it would be for the lineal title and Ring Magazine belt.

Hi all,

In his first reign - Muhammed Ali''s final WBC/WBA/Linear defence was March 1967. He didn't fight again for 2 and a half years until late 1970, when he technically defended his Lineal title twice before meeting the new WBC/WBA champion Joe Frazier in 1971.

Ali still went in as Linear champ, people's champ, and "true" champ..... despite Frazier having picked-up and unified both governing body belts.



The sacred crown which has been passed down from man-to-man has had various breaks in it over the years, but we always end-up with a true champion again at some point: it just takes time. We'd all like to see Fury decide what he's actually doing, but given his young age - even thought he has not fought in a long time we cannot quite say he's forfeited his right just yet. Fury remains Lineal champ..... and we've had lineal champs reign far longer while being inactive.

Cheers

Col/T.M.K

Horse wrote:If Fury isn't the champion then there is no champion.

.

This. And personally I can't justify having Fury as lineal champion when he had claimed he'd retired, hasn't fought in 18 months and doesn't hold a single belt.

If he fights The Big O, can we reinstate him?
That will mean he is active again.
Unbeaten Lineal Champ.

I really do hope all goes well for him. I so much want to see a healthy and fit Tyson Vs AJ, after that there will be no question who is the top dog, and what a relief that will be.

Personally I don't think we'll ever see a better version on Tyson Fury than we have before. Just my opinion.

It'd be a shame if a shadow of the old Fury stepped in with AJ. He'd get beaten handily and i can see this happening.

The fury that fought wlad wouldn't last 3 rounds with joshua

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The fury that fought wlad wouldn't last 3 rounds with joshua

That's harsh!
The Fury that fought Wlad was more awkward than anyone AJ has come up against. He has height and reach over AJ and more lateral movement. Tyson befuddled Wlad, what makes you think he couldn't do the same with AJ?

KiwiRider wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The fury that fought wlad wouldn't last 3 rounds with joshua

That's harsh!
The Fury that fought Wlad was more awkward than anyone AJ has come up against. He has height and reach over AJ and more lateral movement. Tyson befuddled Wlad, what makes you think he couldn't do the same with AJ?

Because Joshua is totally different to Wlad - he likes a proper fight so wouldn't be scared of getting of getting countered on his way in. Wlad over-thought the whole thing and ended up throwing his title away. As someone else posted on a similar thread, AJ doesn't think enough to be befuddled

Tyson fury