BoxRec

Noxy wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

Yep, he was marketable too. Even as an amateur he had the gift of the gab

He could've sold sand to the Arabs big Audley

Noxy wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I am probably going to get slaughtered for saying this but Audley Harrison anyone? Because physically everything was there with him being 6ft5, southpaw with an 86 inch reach. If he got it together he would have been absolute handful at world level.

Yep, he was marketable too. Even as an amateur he had the gift of the gab

I don't think he underachieved, some would say he overachieved.

He got flattened by Mahomed Khamkoer in the ABAs, got lucky against Lezin (?) in Olympics, won against a weak field.

He could never hold a punch. Given that he did pretty well.

If anything I think a lot of British boxers overachieve. Maybe just good promotion.

tobyh5 wrote:Although the story is not over for him (or maybe it is), I am throwing in Anthony Ogogo as an underachiever.

Olympic bronze, highly touted, signed with Golden Boy, going nowhere.


As an aside, why is Cunningham who beat him and with one defeat in 20 only toiling away in a couple 4 and 6 rounders on nothing cards?

Yes that is a real odd one , doesn't add up .

Bad promotion ????

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Naandrew wrote:As for Fury ( taking the UKAD cover up away) I would say he over achieved because no one expected him to beat Wlad.

Though I can understand people including him because had he not gone off the rails and obtained wins over Joshua and Wilder he would be considered an ATG.

I agree, he went from punching himself to the heavyweight title. It was the worst fight I've ever seen, but that doesn't lessen the accomplishment. He's overrated by many, not an underachiever.

More specifically he went from losing to John McDermott to winning the world heavyweight title !!

Naandrew wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Naandrew wrote:As for Fury ( taking the UKAD cover up away) I would say he over achieved because no one expected him to beat Wlad.

Though I can understand people including him because had he not gone off the rails and obtained wins over Joshua and Wilder he would be considered an ATG.

I agree, he went from punching himself to the heavyweight title. It was the worst fight I've ever seen, but that doesn't lessen the accomplishment. He's overrated by many, not an underachiever.

More specifically he went from losing to John McDermott to winning the world heavyweight title !!

Hopkins lost to a much lower level opponent on his debut, Crolla to Al Hamidi, Johnny Nelson to everyone, I could go on, oh, and Tyson won a tight one at title level after nine fights and ko'd the guy in an immediate rematch!
What is the UKAD cover up? The complete lack of evidence?

Blimey, some people on here have a strange idea of underachievement. World champions Alex Arthur, Amir Khan, Colin McMillan, Tyson Fury, Kell Brook, Bernard Dunne, Lloyd Honeyghan, Glenn Catley and Robin Reid all get a mention.
I would go along with Frankie Gavin, Danny Costello and Anthony Ogogo and would add Errol Christie, George Collins, Francis Doherty, Matthew Ellis, Tony Jeffries and Benny May.

crusader wrote:Ya, strange. But OMG Josh-Wlad was more entertaining!! And Josh did 90k too!

Fair point that he could've strengthened his resume by beating top contenders, but him never having to get out of first gear against Wlad (not 41, inactive, or coming off a loss) isn't a good argument in favour of him underachieving.

Tyson was well out of first gear that nigjt. That was the best tyson you will see ever.

He might not have gone to war but he certainly didn't coast to victory like a mayweather did v berto for example. He was at his very best of his technical ability.

roy wrote:Blimey, some people on here have a strange idea of underachievement. World champions Alex Arthur, Amir Khan, Colin McMillan, Tyson Fury, Kell Brook, Bernard Dunne, Lloyd Honeyghan, Glenn Catley and Robin Reid all get a mention.
I would go along with Frankie Gavin, Danny Costello and Anthony Ogogo and would add Errol Christie, George Collins, Francis Doherty, Matthew Ellis, Tony Jeffries and Benny May.

Mathew Ellis as a 200lb cruiser maybe but he was always going to be up against it as a heavy. Nowhere near enough power to make up for his limited height and reach.

Michael Gomez underachieved due to lifestyle choices, he could have gone up another level or two.

John Conteh is surely Britain's greatest underachiever because he had all the ability in the world and everything else besides - ruthlessness, looks, charisma and youth - and he turned his back on the lot. Firstly he tried to manage himself and wasted his peak years in legal wrangles, then he messed up his right hand in a nothing 10-rounder in the States (he couldn't fight here), breaking the hand again in training. Finally, as if it could get any worse, he threw away the world light-heavyweight title he had won so brilliantly at Wembley in 1974 by pulling out of a defence against Argentina's Miguel Cuello, a limited fighter he would clearly have beaten.
Conteh never won back the title in three attempts.

Remember when Tony Jeffries turned over he was looking the bizz, I thought he had one of the best jabs i'd ever seen, slowly but surely the injuries took their toll and you seen him decline each passing fight

Always remember John Fewkes and Akaash Bhatia looking great early on in their careers, Arthur for me as well never really fulfilled his potential, pussing about constantly with trainers couldn't have helped

lot of good mentions, I'd agree with most

Some food for thought anyone... David Price, Henry Akinwade, Ryan Rhodes, Herbie Hide

Wayne Alexander underachieved through a combination of illness / poor motivation and a reluctance of the British promoters to put the light middles of the late 90s early 00s in with each other .

As such a banger he relied too much on this and as a consequence didn't always live the life, only really getting up for the big fights! When he finally started training properly ( in Belfast ) he had already peaked physically.

Had he been able to stay healthy ( shingles wiped him out for a while after the Samuels fight I think ) and stay in the gym he could have achieved more, which is a shame as he is one of the nicest guys in he game who I would have loved to see achieve more !

Put a 22 year old Wayne with Eddie Hearn with the right trainer in the current sky / Instagram / twitter market place and he would become a very rich :)

I'm still puzzled in a world with multiple world champions, how Jamie Moore never got a crack at a world title.
Also as mentioned Herbie Hide. Talented fighter but unfortunately fell between weights. Too small for heavy but couldn't do cruiser (in his prime)

PredatorHayds wrote:I'm still puzzled in a world with multiple world champions, how Jamie Moore never got a crack at a world title.
Also as mentioned Herbie Hide. Talented fighter but unfortunately fell between weights. Too small for heavy but couldn't do cruiser (in his prime)

His fight with Rhodes was an eliminator for one of the belts

He was favourite to win and get a shot from there, but the upset happened.

J-C wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:I'm still puzzled in a world with multiple world champions, how Jamie Moore never got a crack at a world title.
Also as mentioned Herbie Hide. Talented fighter but unfortunately fell between weights. Too small for heavy but couldn't do cruiser (in his prime)

His fight with Rhodes was an eliminator for one of the belts

He was favourite to win and get a shot from there, but the upset happened.

Rhodes found a good bit of form late on in his career.

skanksta wrote:I KNOW he achieved a lot but Naz for me.

Staying humble, not believing your own hype, staying loyal to the team that got you there - all those cliches you hear thrown at starry prospects - he ignored them all and paid the price. He coulda/shoulda been in the TBE conversations and he only just snuck in to the HOF.

Yes crying shame, he had the complete package. One of my favorite fighters. How can you not like Naz!

Great few mentions already, I would definitely agree with Gavin and Price.

I thought when Scott Cardle first burst on the scene I thought he was going to be a world champ in the making. But his last 3/4 fights have been god awful. However, he is still fairly young (mid-late 20's I think...) so he can still surprise me, although I doubt that.

Nathan Cleverly comes to mind as well, and I know he has a title at the moment which was a bit eurghh in itself, but his best win was against Tony Bellew which wasn't conclusive in many people's minds. I thought when he won the LHW world title, I thought he would go on to be one of Britain's top boxers... I really like the guy though, and hope he gets Jack on the undercard and gets the W.

Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

boxingknockout wrote:Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Counter-puncher wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Yes well said both. I know robin reid medalled in Barca 92 but not sure if they were direct competition in weight then

Counter-puncher wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Thanks - can't remember the fighter. Will research.

I would even suggest, given his actual, rather than potential career, that Joe was a better amateur than pro (even though he didn't have the chance internationally and before his hand troubles.)

People say he was a slapper and couldn't punch, but that was due to hand trouble. As an amateur he plastered the high level opposition in the ABAs.

One of my old friends, and a highly respected boxing man, said he'd never seen anyone hit the heavy bag as hard as Joe (he witnessed it early in Joe's pro career.)

boxingknockout wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Thanks - can't remember the fighter. Will research.

I would even suggest, given his actual, rather than potential career, that Joe was a better amateur than pro (even though he didn't have the chance internationally and before his hand troubles.)

People say he was a slapper and couldn't punch, but that was due to hand trouble. As an amateur he plastered the high level opposition in the ABAs.

Ossyrules wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

boxingknockout wrote:Ok - a bit of an odd one, but Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was phenomenal but didn't get the big fights til late, and training with his barking mad dad in a shack, who knew nothing about nutrition and strength training, and had no background in boxing
(look E.g. at Joe's body compared to today's ripped fighters, not to
Mention his hands not being looked after properly) held him back.

With his talent, based in EG london with a nutritionist, good advice, properly promoted and managed and with a good trainer as opposed to sparring a couple or sometimes no half decent fighters on a tin shed with a moustachioed nutter with a chip on his shoulder....

Also Enzo wound up the ABA and stopped his own son from going further as an amateur which held Joe's visibility and signing fee well back.

Joes was a super amateur and never got to show it internationally despite winning 3 consecutive ABA titles at 3 consecutive weights...(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Honestly Calzaghe should've been a superstar the minute he turned pro and been in the spotlight immediately.

Lost out on achievements and money because of his mostly insane dad....

I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Yes well said both. I know robin reid medalled in Barca 92 but not sure if they were direct competition in weight then

Reid was at lightmiddleweight, i am pretty sure

Counter-puncher wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:
I'd agree with most of that

who was it, went to the Olympics in Joe's place, what weight was it and who won the Olympic gold that year?

looking at the footage you can't see how he would have failed to have won at least a medal of some description.

Yes well said both. I know robin reid medalled in Barca 92 but not sure if they were direct competition in weight then

Reid was at lightmiddleweight, i am pretty sure

He was.

I think that Tim Taylor was the ABA champion at light-middle but not selected because of his age.

They also made Adrian Carew/Dodson move down to Welterweight so that Reid could have the light-middle slot.