BoxRec

asdfjkl wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

izabelisk wrote:Now, Klitschko and Tyson Fury are out.

The excuse of Joshua to avoid Ortiz (#1 WBA, #2WBC) and Wilder (WBC world champion) is ....... Pulev.

Yes, it's Pulev, the #2 IBF who became mandatory challenger for the IBF world title after that Parker the former #1 IBF and #1 WBO fight for the vacant WBO world title.
Yes, the same Pulev who was drilled by Klitschko in a one sided fight after only 5 rounds.
Yes, the same Pulev who declined a fight against Joshua last year for an unkown reason (afraid ?).
I don't be surprise if at the last time Pulev declines the fight against Joshua again.
If think that the initial plan of Pulev was to fight for the vacant IBF title against Carlos Takam ( #3 IBF) after that Joshua or Klitschko become WBA/IBF champion because he thought that the winner wants to fight Wilder, Ortiz, Fury or do a rematch in priority.

Now Josha is showing to the world that he is ducking two of the most dangerous fighters (Wilder and Ortiz) to fight a fake mandatory challenger who is very less dangerous.

Wilder doesn't fight Top 10 guys. So that's why THAT'S not happening.

There's no excuse for either of them to be avoiding Ortiz.

One way or another, Pulev is still way, way better as anyone Wilder has ever achieved a win against.

I agree. He'd the best guy Wilder has beaten.

gilgamesh wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
Wilder doesn't fight Top 10 guys. So that's why THAT'S not happening.

There's no excuse for either of them to be avoiding Ortiz.

One way or another, Pulev is still way, way better as anyone Wilder has ever achieved a win against.

I agree. He'd the best guy Wilder has beaten.

That means very little, and is far beyond the point. Who gives a shit if Pulev is better than anyone Wilder has beaten?

Badhusker wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: One way or another, Pulev is still way, way better as anyone Wilder has ever achieved a win against.

I agree. He'd the best guy Wilder has beaten.

That means very little, and is far beyond the point. Who gives a poo if Pulev is better than anyone Wilder has beaten?

It'd be one of his best wins. So there's at least a mild significance to it.

gilgamesh wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I agree. He'd the best guy Wilder has beaten.

That means very little, and is far beyond the point. Who gives a poo if Pulev is better than anyone Wilder has beaten?

It'd be one of his best wins. So there's at least a mild significance to it.

Someone said AJ is ducking Wilder, and acts like Pulev is just a weak excuse for doing so, while in reality Pulev simply proved, well at least equal to what Wilder has done, if not more.

asdfjkl wrote:Someone said AJ is ducking Wilder, and acts like Pulev is just a weak excuse for doing so, while in reality Pulev simply proved, well at least equal to what Wilder has done, if not more.

Exactly, Joshua is not ducking anybody.
He either fights his IBF mandatory (Pulev) and WBA mandatory (Ortiz) or loses the belts - quite simple to understand really.
Wilder will have to wait unless AJ decides to ditch the IBF and WBA titles and go for the WBC belt.

..makes no big difference whether he fights Pulev or Ortiz IMO..just hope once he deals with those two, Wilder doesn't melt into thin air..

izabelisk wrote:Now, Klitschko and Tyson Fury are out.

The excuse of Joshua to avoid Ortiz (#1 WBA, #2WBC) and Wilder (WBC world champion) is ....... Pulev.

Yes, it's Pulev, the #2 IBF who became mandatory challenger for the IBF world title after that Parker the former #1 IBF and #1 WBO fight for the vacant WBO world title.
Yes, the same Pulev who was drilled by Klitschko in a one sided fight after only 5 rounds.
Yes, the same Pulev who declined a fight against Joshua last year for an unkown reason (afraid ?).
I don't be surprise if at the last time Pulev declines the fight against Joshua again.
If think that the initial plan of Pulev was to fight for the vacant IBF title against Carlos Takam ( #3 IBF) after that Joshua or Klitschko become WBA/IBF champion because he thought that the winner wants to fight Wilder, Ortiz, Fury or do a rematch in priority.

Now Josha is showing to the world that he is ducking two of the most dangerous fighters (Wilder and Ortiz) to fight a fake mandatory challenger who is very less dangerous.

Are you that stupid? Do you know what the word mandatory means?

danconnollyeire wrote:

izabelisk wrote:Now, Klitschko and Tyson Fury are out.

The excuse of Joshua to avoid Ortiz (#1 WBA, #2WBC) and Wilder (WBC world champion) is ....... Pulev.

Yes, it's Pulev, the #2 IBF who became mandatory challenger for the IBF world title after that Parker the former #1 IBF and #1 WBO fight for the vacant WBO world title.
Yes, the same Pulev who was drilled by Klitschko in a one sided fight after only 5 rounds.
Yes, the same Pulev who declined a fight against Joshua last year for an unkown reason (afraid ?).
I don't be surprise if at the last time Pulev declines the fight against Joshua again.
If think that the initial plan of Pulev was to fight for the vacant IBF title against Carlos Takam ( #3 IBF) after that Joshua or Klitschko become WBA/IBF champion because he thought that the winner wants to fight Wilder, Ortiz, Fury or do a rematch in priority.

Now Josha is showing to the world that he is ducking two of the most dangerous fighters (Wilder and Ortiz) to fight a fake mandatory challenger who is very less dangerous.

Are you that stupid? Do you know what the word mandatory means?

It would be easier for everyone to understand if Joshua consistantly said he cares about the belts, and was worried about being stripped. First he does, then he doesn't. Basically it is about money, like it always is.

SteveO wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:Someone said AJ is ducking Wilder, and acts like Pulev is just a weak excuse for doing so, while in reality Pulev simply proved, well at least equal to what Wilder has done, if not more.

Exactly, Joshua is not ducking anybody.
He either fights his IBF mandatory (Pulev) and WBA mandatory (Ortiz) or loses the belts - quite simple to understand really.
Wilder will have to wait unless AJ decides to ditch the IBF and WBA titles and go for the WBC belt.

Well, AJ is simply waiting till Wilder stands up and fight someone, so the fight between himself and Wilder will be much bigger as it would be when they fought each other right now.
Somehow Wilder is just wasting time as long as his personal lab is suspended and after that he will fight a bum, most likely Stiverne.

Badhusker wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

izabelisk wrote:Now, Klitschko and Tyson Fury are out.

The excuse of Joshua to avoid Ortiz (#1 WBA, #2WBC) and Wilder (WBC world champion) is ....... Pulev.

Yes, it's Pulev, the #2 IBF who became mandatory challenger for the IBF world title after that Parker the former #1 IBF and #1 WBO fight for the vacant WBO world title.
Yes, the same Pulev who was drilled by Klitschko in a one sided fight after only 5 rounds.
Yes, the same Pulev who declined a fight against Joshua last year for an unkown reason (afraid ?).
I don't be surprise if at the last time Pulev declines the fight against Joshua again.
If think that the initial plan of Pulev was to fight for the vacant IBF title against Carlos Takam ( #3 IBF) after that Joshua or Klitschko become WBA/IBF champion because he thought that the winner wants to fight Wilder, Ortiz, Fury or do a rematch in priority.

Now Josha is showing to the world that he is ducking two of the most dangerous fighters (Wilder and Ortiz) to fight a fake mandatory challenger who is very less dangerous.

Are you that stupid? Do you know what the word mandatory means?

It would be easier for everyone to understand if Joshua consistantly said he cares about the belts, and was worried about being stripped. First he does, then he doesn't. Basically it is about money, like it always is.

You're too emotionally committed against Joshua on this topic as per the other thread.

I'm not against Joshua at all. I try to be realistic and base my opinion on facts. I just want to see the best fights.

Badhusker wrote:I'm not against Joshua at all. I try to be realistic and base my opinion on facts. I just want to see the best fights.

Then be impartial. Prior to Wlad wilder had had nearly as many fights as Joshua had fought rounds.

One guy is pushing for big fights, the others done nothing

Or don't be impartial and admit you want your countrymen to be the man and are biased

Ossyrules wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I'm not against Joshua at all. I try to be realistic and base my opinion on facts. I just want to see the best fights.

Then be impartial. Prior to Wlad wilder had had nearly as many fights as Joshua had fought rounds.

One guy is pushing for big fights, the others done nothing

Or don't be impartial and admit you want your countrymen to be the man and are biased

I may as well talk to a damn stump.

Badhusker wrote:

Ossyrules wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I'm not against Joshua at all. I try to be realistic and base my opinion on facts. I just want to see the best fights.

Then be impartial. Prior to Wlad wilder had had nearly as many fights as Joshua had fought rounds.

One guy is pushing for big fights, the others done nothing

Or don't be impartial and admit you want your countrymen to be the man and are biased

I may as well talk to a damn stump.

Apologies I'm trying to speak to you on your level

Here is an article that puts in plain english what Hearn's plans were for Joshua after Wlad, and talks about the belts. Pretty much re-affirms what I have been saying all along. Do the belts matter or the biggest fights? I guess that depends on which month you ask them.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/the-pla ... klitschko/


The latest I read about the potential Wilder vs Ortiz seems to be not going anywhere due to Ortiz wanting to fight the winner of Pulev and Joshua instead of Wilder. So much for him being the boogyman.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:I will never understand how Ortiz has gotten so overrated.

A loss to wilder will fix that in a hurry. He'd be a bum overnight.

And vice versa I would assume.
If Wilder loses to Ortiz, and his best win was arguably Stiverne- where would he be?
That is a big IF of course.
Ortiz has a head like an Easter Island statue, my outside bet would be Wilder breaking his hand on it and losing by TKO.

If AJ is planning to wait till after december, then the wba belt should go to Ortiz imo, who receives my permission to fight against Wilder for it. They simply can't continue to wait forever, they shouldn't be like the wbc.

asdfjkl wrote:If AJ is planning to wait till after december, then the wba belt should go to Ortiz imo, who receives my permission to fight against Wilder for it. They simply can't continue to wait forever, they shouldn't be like the wbc.

Well, the WBA 'regular' title is vacant so maybe Ortiz could fight Oquendo (or whoever) for that.

Badhusker wrote:Here is an article that puts in plain english what Hearn's plans were for Joshua after Wlad, and talks about the belts. Pretty much re-affirms what I have been saying all along. Do the belts matter or the biggest fights? I guess that depends on which month you ask them.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/the-pla ... klitschko/


The latest I read about the potential Wilder vs Ortiz seems to be not going anywhere due to Ortiz wanting to fight the winner of Pulev and Joshua instead of Wilder. So much for him being the boogyman.

I agree the biggest fights become more important in time but you have to initially become bigger than the belts. Joshua's still at the start of his reign so there's work to do before he gets to that stage.

That article has more quotes of actively trying to get the Whyte vs wilder fight made more than Joshua vs wilder. It's dated Jan 2017 anyway, things change in sport. Wlad has turned down the rematch and Hearn has said the IBF are forcing the pulev fight, no exemptions.

..seems like Hearn has been doing the usual balancing act which is understandable..he'll stick to the belts as long as it is necessary and Joshua will be fighting mandatories unless alphabets decide otherwise...fighting Wilder is an option provided exceptions are taken...

Badhusker wrote:especially no criticism of Joshua for not making the fight fans want to see.

Why would anyone criticize Joshua for fighting Wlad and Pulev consecutively? That's pretty amazing. Wlad is basically the only other heavyweight in recent history to fight two opponents in a row who were that good (I'm referring to Fury and Joshua), and in Wlad's case, he didn't beat either of them. Wilder hasn't fought anyone as good as Pulev, nor anyone as good as Wlad, let alone back-to-back. Povetkin hasn't fought two opponents that good. Ortiz hasn't fought two opponents that good. Fury hasn't fought two opponents that good. Vitali arguably hasn't fought two opponents that good (I consider Byrd to be better than Pulev, but not necessarily the slightly pre-prime version of Byrd), definitely not both in a row, and he definitely didn't beat them at any rate. Seriously, when a guy beats the #1 heavyweight, and follows that up by beating the #5-7 heavyweight, there is really no need to criticize him until he falls into a pattern of fighting numerous guys outside the top 15 in a row.

Which brings me to Wilder. This guy fought Eric Molina, then Johann Duhaupas, then Artur Szpilka, then Chris Arreola, then Gerald Washington. That's weak as f*ck for the amount of hype that I've had to put up with. 5 title defenses, and none of them had a boxrec rating higher than 135. I promise I will always criticize every fighter who gets as much hype as Wilder while defending his title against a string of 5 challengers like that. Even if Joshua fights 5 sh*tty contenders in a row like that, I swear I will criticize him for it.

Generally speaking, I almost never criticize a boxer for fighting a weak opponent (Pulev isn't even weak) after beating the #1 guy in the division. Rarely is criticism warranted until a fighter is fighting at least two weak opponents in a row, perhaps not even then. Generally once a fighter's accomplishments are as good as his hype (which they are in Joshua's case, and they are not in Wilder's case), then I don't mind as much if they start taking it easy for a bit. Mayweather is one of the few fighters I might have been unreasonably tough on, but given how obviously great he was, he had a responsibility to really push his limits.

Lackeos wrote:

Badhusker wrote:especially no criticism of Joshua for not making the fight fans want to see.

Why would anyone criticize Joshua for fighting Wlad and Pulev consecutively? That's pretty amazing. Wlad is basically the only other heavyweight in recent history to fight two opponents in a row who were that good (I'm referring to Fury and Joshua), and in Wlad's case, he didn't beat either of them. Wilder hasn't fought anyone as good as Pulev, nor anyone as good as Wlad, let alone back-to-back. Povetkin hasn't fought two opponents that good. Ortiz hasn't fought two opponents that good. Fury hasn't fought two opponents that good. Vitali arguably hasn't fought two opponents that good (I consider Byrd to be better than Pulev, but not necessarily the slightly pre-prime version of Byrd), definitely not both in a row, and he definitely didn't beat them at any rate. Seriously, when a guy beats the #1 heavyweight, and follows that up by beating the #5-7 heavyweight, there is really no need to criticize him until he falls into a pattern of fighting numerous guys outside the top 15 in a row.

Which brings me to Wilder. This guy fought Eric Molina, then Johann Duhaupas, then Artur Szpilka, then Chris Arreola, then Gerald Washington. That's weak as f*ck for the amount of hype that I've had to put up with. 5 title defenses, and none of them had a boxrec rating higher than 135. I promise I will always criticize every fighter who gets as much hype as Wilder while defending his title against a string of 5 challengers like that. Even if Joshua fights 5 sh*tty contenders in a row like that, I swear I will criticize him for it.

Generally speaking, I almost never criticize a boxer for fighting a weak opponent (Pulev isn't even weak) after beating the #1 guy in the division. Rarely is criticism warranted until a fighter is fighting at least two weak opponents in a row, perhaps not even then. Generally once a fighter's accomplishments are as good as his hype (which they are in Joshua's case, and they are not in Wilder's case), then I don't mind as much if they start taking it easy for a bit. Mayweather is one of the few fighters I might have been unreasonably tough on, but given how obviously great he was, he had a responsibility to really push his limits.

So you disagree with Hearn from the article I posted? A year or two younger Wlad would have finished Joshua, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. A win vs a 41yr old Wlad is a good win, but not great considering his age. I would say the same about Floyd, Pac, etc losing at that age.

The only opponents I defend on Wilfred resume are 2 he fought coming off broken hands, and 1 he fought when Povetkin fell through. The criticism he gets is deserved, but gets no credit for wanting to fight Ortiz and Joshua. They don't want the fight it seems. The only offer Wilder has turned down was Whyte, because he was promised Joshua next.

Washington had a boxrec rating a lot higher than No. 135 at the time Wilder beat him, but I agree that his title defenses are against borderline world-class boxers and he needs to step up. Boxing Monthly magazine has him on its cover and that he wants to save heavyweight boxing in America. We're all waiting to see when that happens.

RScarf1 wrote:Washington had a boxrec rating a lot higher than No. 135 at the time Wilder beat him, but I agree that his title defenses are against borderline world-class boxers and he needs to step up. Boxing Monthly magazine has him on its cover and that he wants to save heavyweight boxing in America. We're all waiting to see when that happens.

Well then, in order for that to happen we need the big fights. Who is holding up the biggest heavyweight fights? Its not Wilder.

Badhusker wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:Washington had a boxrec rating a lot higher than No. 135 at the time Wilder beat him, but I agree that his title defenses are against borderline world-class boxers and he needs to step up. Boxing Monthly magazine has him on its cover and that he wants to save heavyweight boxing in America. We're all waiting to see when that happens.

Well then, in order for that to happen we need the big fights. Who is holding up the biggest heavyweight fights? Its not Wilder.

It all depends on whether or not Joshua wants to keep his IBF and WBA belts. If he does then he has to fight his mandatories before he can face Wilder.
Wilder will just have to wait a little longer, and perhaps in the meantime he can defend his WBC title against one or two meaningful opponents.