BoxRec

When I wrote for Boxing Insider, I interviewed Ali's ex-wife Khalilah Ali who was married to Ali during his prime. They divorced in 1977. She said that Ali was lucky to beat Spinks in the rematch. I think that win would have still been Ali's last win if he fought Cooney in 1979. If he fought Cooney, there probably would not have been a Holmes fight in 1980. I think Cooney would have beaten Ali in 1979.

golden oldie wrote:So you believe Clay ( his name wasn't changed until after the Liston fight ) would have recovered after a standing count, as opposed to the full minute he got to recover with I might add the aid of smelling salts

Yes, of course... The odds favored Ali... He was perfect when the 5th started. He was extremely aggressive, took over the fight, and got the stoppage.

Since Ali was up at the count of 4 -- and not 8 or 9 -- he wasn't hurt that seriously. Chances are he would have made it through the 4th regardless of when that hook landed. He was hurt and shaken, but not wobbly. And being bigger, taller, stronger, 22 pounds heavier, and a better boxer than Cooper were all advantages for Ali being able to shake off the cobwebs and get back in business.. The business of finishing Cooper off early.

Frazier landed a heavier left hook, right in the middle of the 15th and put Ali flat on his back... Smokin' couldn't follow it up with another brutal shot.

golden oldie wrote:

Kalan wrote:

golden oldie wrote:So you believe Clay ( his name wasn't changed until after the Liston fight ) would have recovered after a standing count, as opposed to the full minute he got to recover with I might add the aid of smelling salts

Yes, of course... The odds favored Ali... He was perfect when the 5th started. He was extremely aggressive, took over the fight, and got the stoppage.

Since Ali was up at the count of 4 -- and not 8 or 9 -- he wasn't hurt that seriously. Chances are he would have made it through the 4th regardless of when that hook landed. He was hurt and shaken, but not wobbly. And being bigger, taller, stronger, 22 pounds heavier, and a better boxer than Cooper were all advantages for Ali being able to shake off the cobwebs and get back in business.. The business of finishing Cooper off early.

Frazier landed a heavier left hook, right in the middle of the 15th and put Ali flat on his back... Smokin' couldn't follow it up with another brutal shot.

https://youtu.be/QluJJaU1vA4?t=17

He goes down at 5 seconds in the clip he is up at 10 seconds. Dundee has entered the ring because the bell has gone, and Clay is still on wobbly legs. It is impossible for you to say had the bell NOT rung, and the ref had only added 3 extra seconds to the 5 Clay was already down he would have survived. He was hurt enough to be caught with an immediate follow up.

This was NOT the post exile stronger craftier Ali who knew how to tie people up until his head cleared.

There's a lot of exaggeration going on. You don't "demolish" somebody by flooring them... The announcer said Ali was up at 3...I say 4...but it wasn't 5.. They don't start counting while you're going down -- but when something other than the bottom of your shoes touches the floor it constitutes a knockdown -- even if it's a glove touch and it's the result of a punch. But the count doesn't start until then.. If the ropes keep you up it's a mandatory 8.

It's clear that Ali started getting up as soon as his ass hit the floor. He walked back to his corner unassisted and balanced.. He was a little shaky with just a hint of a wobble.. He was in much better shape than Larry Holmes was when Renaldo Snipes flattened him.. Holmes staggered badly into the ropes when he got up and was very wobbly -- but Holmes was too clever a boxer for Snipes to apply the finisher -- the same difficulty Cooper would have.

It was 5 seconds and a fraction when Clay's can hit the deck. His left knee was clearly off the canvas at 9 seconds and a fraction. The counter was late to the count. He signaled Clay was down then looked for his mallet, then started double thumping with his fist and got to 3. That's why the announcer said Clay was up at 3. He went by the official count. Generally you have a guy counting for knockdowns and a timekeeper, cuz when the count overlaps the end of the round like this, it's difficult to keep track of both. But this is the kind of trivial nonsense you get caught up in and argue to death.

The more important things are: Clay was up in plenty of time, without assistance from the ropes. He didn't stagger or hardly even wobble. He walked straight to his corner, without assistance, on steady feet, turned and sat down. There would have been no reason for the referee to stop the fight. Clay most likely would have been able to survive whatever time was left in the round as a badly bleeding and tiring Cooper tried vainly to finish him.

Clay had 22 pounds on Cooper, was a better, stronger, younger athlete, and a better boxer and defender. Cooper had no outstanding weapons to compliment his left hook. Top rated Heavies such as Patterson, Johansson, and Folley were able to time Cooper perfectly with right hands cuz they knew what was coming -- another left hook. Escaping the round intact would not have been an amazing feat.

But I remember the Ali vs Cooney fight:

By this point Ali was really spent. He had been on the decline since Manila The Inoki debacle and Norton third fight. Yes he was fading fast by 1979. Gerry Cooney was up and coming and he could punch. He was not all that great but at this point in time he could decision Ali. Gerry Cooney wins but no easy.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2017, 23:08 or know what he's talking about.

Oh he knows...he spent thirteen rounds learning!

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑30 Dec 2020, 08:43

Nile4000 wrote: ↑04 Sep 2017, 23:08 or know what he's talking about.

Oh he knows...he spent thirteen rounds learning!

LOL!

well one thing I know, Muhammad Ali didn't like hard shots to his body.
whenever he was asked (in some fights) if his opponent had ever hurt him,
usually he said it was a shot to the body
( Karl mildenburger, Jerry Quarry ( 1st fight)
Chuvalo in the first fight went to the body (and hips)
also in the amateurs he was knocked down by a left to the body by Alan Hudson.

IMO, 1n 1979 Cooney probably squeaks by Ali, by close decision, UNLESS low blows cost him the fight.

Probably Cooney. He was so young at this point, but Ali really had nothing left.

For me, the big question would be the mental factor. Ali was the master of the psych job and Cooney could let himself get emotionally overwhelmed.

Ultimately, I think Ali was so far gone physically that Cooney would overcome despite any head games.

Ali was knocked down 3 times from lefts in his pro career
Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier.

Kalan wrote: ↑06 Sep 2017, 01:24 Gerry Cooney at his best wiped out a faded Norton, Lyle, and Young... There is no reason to believe he wouldn't also stop a faded Ali.

The post-Holmes Cooney couldn't beat anyone decent... Prior to that he was a decent Heavyweight... He's another one like Buster Douglas and Tyson Fury.

Exactly right. Ali was too old to win here, and though he took a good body and head shot, he could only take so many. Cooney wins here via late TKO. Ali just didn't have the punch or energy level he needed to win here.