BoxRec

Mostly just the guys on the East Coast.

golden oldie wrote:

gp. wrote:

golden oldie wrote:Ali, or McCall, no question. Vitali doesn't come close. If an aging disinterested Lennox could open him up like a tomato can, you would hate to think what serious punchers in their primes could do to him.

What's that got to do with his chin?

The clue is in the words " aging disinterested Lennox "

I have even less interest in all the " Lewis fouled Vitali " garbage than I do listening to some numpty talking about their religious belief crap.

Again, what does the fact that an aged disinterested Lewis managed to beat Vitali and cut him have to do with his chin?

golden oldie wrote:

gp. wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
The clue is in the words " aging disinterested Lennox "

I have even less interest in all the " Lewis fouled Vitali " garbage than I do listening to some numpty talking about their religious belief crap.

Again, what does the fact that an aged disinterested Lewis managed to beat Vitali and cut him have to do with his chin?

If you can't work it out for yourself, then I haven't the inclination to tell you.

What do you think having a good chin means? I'm not sure the view that "having a good chin" means "you can't be outboxed and never get cut" would carry a lot of support.

Incidentally saying something like "If you can't work it out for yourself, then I haven't the inclination to tell you." tells everyone who reads it two things. Firstly, it tells them that you know I have lost the argument, you can't answer the question, but you won't admit it. Secondly, it means that you are one of the biggest arseholes ever to walk on this green Earth.

To prove me wrong, all you have to do is explain how Vitali being beaten on cuts by Lewis means he has a poor chin. That's all you have to do. I await you doing it.

Lewis was 37 and getting outpointed... He started fouling like crazy with impunity from the referee.. In his previous fight Lewis dominated and flattened a younger Mike Tyson, 35 to Lewis's 36...so Lewis was still good.. Vitali was never knocked down or behind on points after any fight...and would have won the Lewis fight Unanimously if it went to the scorecards because fouls contributed to the cuts.. Vitali fought til he was 41...unlike Lewis who chickened out of a Vitali rematch -- after promising fans for months he'd rematch a fight many feel he lost.

After Klitschko was named Lewis's mandatory challenger LL quit the ring for good.

Kalan wrote:Vitali fought til he was 41...unlike Lewis who chickened out of a Vitali rematch

Yeah he fought absolute beasts like Tomasz Adamek, Chisora, and Manuel Charr

BitPlayer wrote:

Kalan wrote:Vitali fought til he was 41...unlike Lewis who chickened out of a Vitali rematch

Yeah he fought absolute beasts like Tomasz Adamek, Chisora, and Manuel Charr

After he chickened out of fighting Rahman and retired in horror.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

BitPlayer wrote:

Kalan wrote:Vitali fought til he was 41...unlike Lewis who chickened out of a Vitali rematch

Yeah he fought absolute beasts like Tomasz Adamek, Chisora, and Manuel Charr

After he chickened out of fighting Rahman and retired in horror.

LMFAO!!! Vitali Klitschko had no fear of 2nd rate Rahman---who was knocked out twice by Oleg Maskaev, one of the chinniest Champs in history... Sam Peter had no problem knocking Oleg Maskaev out. A 37-year-old Vitali blasted Sam Peter, who was 30-1, like a punching bag til he QUIT!! Vitali was coming off of 4 years of inactivity where he was rehabbing badly injured legs that had been bothering him for many years... So that was probably the best Vitali Klitschko.

Kalan wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

BitPlayer wrote: Yeah he fought absolute beasts like Tomasz Adamek, Chisora, and Manuel Charr

After he chickened out of fighting Rahman and retired in horror.

LMFAO!!! Vitali Klitschko had no fear of 2nd rate Rahman---who was knocked out twice by Oleg Maskaev, one of the chinniest Champs in history... Sam Peter had no problem knocking Oleg Maskaev out. A 37-year-old Vitali blasted Sam Peter, who was 30-1, like a punching bag til he QUIT!! Vitali was coming off of 4 years of inactivity where he was rehabbing badly injured legs that had been bothering him for many years... So that was probably the best Vitali Klitschko.

He cowered into retirement rather than face Rahman. Who actually beat Lennox, dropped him with one shot while Lennox ate vitalis best like a plate of spaghetti. Vitali waited until rock was no longer a danger to take on the lowly Peter who was knocked cold by the lumbering helenius and pulev when vitali couldn't even budge him.

You're just a hater who doesn't make any sense... Vitali had very badly injured legs from Kickboxing for many years and they gave him many problems... They finally gave out and he had to rehab them.. Vitali was a HUGE favorite to smash Rahman and signed 3 contracts to fight him.. but his legs just wouldn't hold up to training anymore -- so he retired and eventually he was able to find specialists who got his legs back in gear and that took a few years.

Everyone knows Rahman was a soft opponent who Lewis knocked out with perfect ease in their rematch... Landing a lottery shot doesn't make you great... Rahman's win over Lewis was an unlikely accident... Oleg Maskaev's KO's over Rahman were no accident -- because he reached Rahman very easily and knocked him out twice.. Who the FUK gets knocked out by Oleg Maskaev twice??? ... Not anybody who can fight, that's for sure.

Kalan wrote:You're just a hater who doesn't make any sense... Vitali had very badly injured legs from Kickboxing for many years and they gave him many problems... They finally gave out and he had to rehab them..

Everyone knows Rahman was a soft opponent who Lewis knocked out with perfect ease in their rematch... Landing a lottery shot doesn't make you great... Rahman's win over Lewis was an unlikely accident... Oleg Maskaev's KO's over Rahman were no accident -- because he reached him very easily and knocked him out twice.. Who the FUK gets knocked out by Oleg Maskaev twice??? ... Not anybody who can fight, that's for sure.

Nobody said Rahman was great. Vitali just was afraid of him. He kept signing the contract and pulling out until he ran out of excuses. He didn't dare mention Rahmans name when he returned. Sheer terror. Maybe him beating two fighters that slaughtered his brother and one that massacred him had his mediocre legs quivering.. Lewis was a truly great fighter. No shame for Rahman or vitali that he kicked their asses. Vitali never fought maskaev either. His resume is void of even the weak competition of his era.

You've made it clear that retiring instead of fighting is ducking and unacceptable. That's for a fighter that never returned. When you check the kalan chart of 'logic', vitali is a massive pussy.

In regards to the rematch Lennox said. " I was supposed to fight a water buffalo. I barely trained and still turned him into the elephant man. I've done it all, I don't want my career to end in tragedy. If I train, I might bludgeon that pillow fisted bleeder to death".

golden oldie wrote:

gp. wrote:

golden oldie wrote:
Ask yourself one simple question, so simple in fact Einstein, that even you should get it.

Do you think Lewis was firing on all cylinders that night, and had the same snap in his shots as when at his best?

What the eff does it matter, you idiot?

He didn't trouble Vitali's chin that night. How the hell do you read from that that Vitali had a poor chin???

If you argue that Lewis was shot, then the only conclusion you can draw from that fight is that you can't judge Vitali's chin by it either way.

Christ, you are stupid. It's amazing how you can't grasp this simple thing.

Crawl back under your stone, MORON. Some people were born thick, you have obviously worked hard at it.

Go on then, explain why anything I've said is stupid. I challenge you again. You still haven't managed it, have you.

Here's your reasoning - an old Lewis cut Vitali. Therefore a young Lewis would have been able to knock him out. Therefore Vitali has a weak chin.

Surely even you can see the problems in that. If you admitted your error instead of constantly digging yourself a bigger hole you'd look less of an idiot. but you are too stupid to realise that. I can only imagine that the people you normally associate with are even more stupid than you, and this kind of blustering idiocy actually works with them. More likely it doesn't, and just nobody bothers talking to you.

golden oldie wrote:

gp. wrote:

golden oldie wrote:


Crawl back under your stone, MORON. Some people were born thick, you have obviously worked hard at it.

Go on then, explain why anything I've said is stupid. I challenge you again. You still haven't managed it, have you.

Here's your reasoning - an old Lewis cut Vitali. Therefore a young Lewis would have been able to knock him out. Therefore Vitali has a weak chin.

Surely even you can see the problems in that. If you admitted your error instead of constantly digging yourself a bigger hole you'd look less of an idiot. but you are too stupid to realise that. I can only imagine that the people you normally associate with are even more stupid than you, and this kind of blustering idiocy actually works with them. More likely it doesn't, and just nobody bothers talking to you.

You have obviously got me confused with someone who gives a toss what you think.

TKO - 6

All the cuts did was delay the inevitable stoppage anyway. Klitchko had nothing left other than holding because a career highest weight, uninterested Lewis battered his face into pizza for 6 rounds.

Which has what to do with his chin, ffs?

If Lewis "battered his face into pizza for 6 rounds" without knocking him out, knocking him unconscious, or stunning him, how the hell does that mean he has a weak chin???? If anything it means he has a good one.

You keep making arguments for Klitschko being outclassed by Lewis. That's not the point at issue. This is about Klitshcko's chin.

If you are making the assumption that a younger Lewis would have easily knocked him out then you simply cannot make that assumption. And even if you DO make it, and allow that a younger Lewis would have battered Klitschko round the ring for several rounds and eventually stopped him, that still doesn't mean he had a bad chin. Anyone who could take a sustained battering by Lewis for one round must have a good chin. You just don't seem to understand what chin means. You just keep repeating that Lewis outclassed him, which I don't fornicating deny.

Try and stop being an angry idiot for 30 seconds and think about what you are saying.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Kalan wrote:You're just a hater who doesn't make any sense... Vitali had very badly injured legs from Kickboxing for many years and they gave him many problems... They finally gave out and he had to rehab them

He didn't dare mention Rahmans name when he returned. Sheer terror. Maybe him beating two fighters that slaughtered his brother and one that massacred him had his mediocre legs quivering.. Lewis was a truly great fighter. No shame for Rahman or vitali that he kicked their asses. Vitali never fought maskaev either. His resume is void of even the weak competition of his era.

Why would he go after Rahman when he returned??? Rahman was beaten up and knocked out for the 2nd time by 2nd rater Oleg Maskaev. And why would knocking out fighters who beat an ATG Heavyweight Champion make you scared of anyone??? You're extremely weird.

As I said before, you're a pure HATER of Vitali -- just as many hate Mayweather, Joshua, Lewis or whoever -- If you HATE somebody you never see any good in anything they ever accomplish.. Vitali is a 3 X Heavyweight Champion who easily destroyed Sam Peter, 30-1, the reigning WBC Heavyweight Champion when he was 37 years old, and coming off 4 years of inactivity because of rehabbing injuries. Few Heavyweights in history could achieve that.

Peter easily punched out Oleg Maskaev, a very unlikely Heavyweight Champion. How did a glass chinned man like Oleg Maskaev get to be champ??? By knocking out chinny Hasim Rahman for the 2nd time.. Maskaev feared punchers.. He wouldn't fight the Klitschkos in a million years because he'd get knocked STIFF in the first round.. But Maskaev had NO fear of Hasim Rahman because the man is a stupid goon who runs into right hands. Lewis had NO respect for Rahman -- cuz he's a dumb bunny who couldn't box.. Even inept John Ruiz knew he could pound dumb ass Rahman like he owned him.

You're correct in saying Lewis was a great fighter. No shame in getting caught by lucky punches. But it IS shameful to foul your way to victory with a corrupt referee -- who allowed Lewis to illegally slash open Vitali's eyelid and cheek with a thumb strike and palm slash -- after Vitali nearly knocked Lewis out in the 2nd round.. There was little swelling on Vitali's face so the punches weren't hurting Vitali at all.. Those deep jagged cuts were opened by the thumb and palm of the glove.. The referee warned Lewis for egregious palming, which Lewis coldly ignored because he knew Lou Moret was in his pocket..

Lou Moret is the same referee who allowed Robert Guerrero to thumb and foul Andre Berto over 100 times without calling a single foul.. Vitali was winning the fight on all scorecards when it was called on cuts after 6 rounds... If the referee called any of the fouls, or advised the judges that illegal blows contributed to the cuts---the fight would have gone to the scorecards---with Klitschko Winning a Unanimous Technical Decision 6.

Vitali afraid of Rahman? Give me a break..

İf it was brother Wladimir we were talking about, it could make sense. But against Vitali, it makes no sense. Just a baseless assumption. Really nothing more. And not convincing at all, for that matter.

Rahman is there, only to be outboxed all day and night, 7/24 by Vitali. That's what he is.. He was. He doesn't even stand punchers chance(unlike lewis) against Vitali. Just no way out for him. Vitali, is no Lewis.
Fear..? Fear of what honestly? Just how could Rahman pose a threat to Vitali, causing fear?!!!
A guy betaen by feather-fisted ruiz, beaten by maskaev...is a threat to vitali?

And in that match, Lewis did not, actually "could not" dominate Vitali. He was behind on all cards, that's a fact. An undeniable "fact". Period.
He was just lucky on those cuts. A jackpot only "once" in his career.
His claims about what he could or would have done in a rematch and demolishing Vitali is nothing but only cheap talk. He was not there to "prove" it.
Why? :) ....This is a question that needs to be answered. Honestly of course.
Because he said so? What a proof(!) We are fully convinced(!)
Lewis knew and acknowledged the truth, people deny it.


Questioning Vitali's chin based on cuts..is funny, and well..ridiculous. (No offense)
On the other hand, that famous uppercut of Lewis tells a lot.

Vitali's resume is weak. That's another fact. But for me, his brother is to blame for. He was on Vitali's path all the way...Well, just another "assumption"..

Oliver McCall for me.
Never blinked. Not once..

There may be others matching him, but nobody surpasses.

Kalan wrote:You're just a hater who doesn't make any sense... Vitali had very badly injured legs from Kickboxing for many years and they gave him many problems... They finally gave out and he had to rehab them.. Vitali was a HUGE favorite to smash Rahman and signed 3 contracts to fight him.. but his legs just wouldn't hold up to training anymore -- so he retired and eventually he was able to find specialists who got his legs back in gear and that took a few years.

Everyone knows Rahman was a soft opponent who Lewis knocked out with perfect ease in their rematch... Landing a lottery shot doesn't make you great... Rahman's win over Lewis was an unlikely accident... Oleg Maskaev's KO's over Rahman were no accident -- because he reached Rahman very easily and knocked him out twice.. Who the FUK gets knocked out by Oleg Maskaev twice??? ... Not anybody who can fight, that's for sure.

All boxers come to the ring with their "inventory" of history e.g Vitali's war wounds. And "unlikely accidents" happen when fighters fight more often. You do tend to enforce this "unlikely accident rule of logic" for your favs, and dismiss it for others. (Though this case stands as an outlier, since I don't think your a big fan of Lewis). I think myself and others are going to call you out on it and we should. I've noticed a trending bias you have against boxers who were very active......and as a result had more "unlikely accidents" such as Armstrong and SRR, and maybe Moore .....(pun intended) who by the way beat Burley....(though you don't bring it up).

I suppose in their case of Burley and Moore, they both were so good, that each of them experienced "unlikely accidents" when faced with the other.

Before you shoot back, remember this is coming from someone who often finds your contributions very thoughtful. Though... sometimes, not so much.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:You're just a hater who doesn't make any sense... Vitali had very badly injured legs from Kickboxing for many years and they gave him many problems... They finally gave out and he had to rehab them.. Vitali was a HUGE favorite to smash Rahman and signed 3 contracts to fight him.. but his legs just wouldn't hold up to training anymore -- so he retired and eventually he was able to find specialists who got his legs back in gear and that took a few years.

Everyone knows Rahman was a soft opponent who Lewis knocked out with perfect ease in their rematch... Landing a lottery shot doesn't make you great... Rahman's win over Lewis was an unlikely accident... Oleg Maskaev's KO's over Rahman were no accident -- because he reached Rahman very easily and knocked him out twice.. Who the FUK gets knocked out by Oleg Maskaev twice??? ... Not anybody who can fight, that's for sure.

All boxers come to the ring with their "inventory" of history e.g Vitali's war wounds. And "unlikely accidents" happen when fighters fight more often. You do tend to enforce this "unlikely accident rule of logic" for your favs, and dismiss it for others. (Though this case stands as an outlier, since I don't think your a big fan of Lewis). I think myself and others are going to call you out on it and we should. I've noticed a trending bias you have against boxers who were very active......and as a result had more "unlikely accidents" such as Armstrong and SRR, and maybe Moore .....(pun intended) who by the way beat Burley....(though you don't bring it up).

I suppose in their case of Burley and Moore, they both were so good, that each of them experienced "unlikely accidents" when faced with the other.

Before you shoot back, remember this is coming from someone who often finds your contributions very thoughtful. Though... sometimes, not so much.

Okay.. THIS is coming from someone who finds your contributions incredibly unthoughtful -- even the ones you think through with all your might because you lack the horsepower to get the wheels rolling..

Moore never beat Burley dude... They DIDN'T have unlikely accidents when facing each other.. They met ONCE.. Burley controlled Moore completely, knocking him down 4 times. None of the knockdowns were accidents because he ripped Moore methodically all night. Damn!

And I don't like Lewis.. He was a cheating piece of shiit and should have 3 losses on his record.. He cheated in other fights.. but I do recognize that Lennox was a great Heavyweight regardless of my personal feelings about him.. Hitler was a great orator.. Billy the Kid was good at arithmetic.. There's a little good in the worst of us -- and a little bad in the best of us.. But Lewis dominated both Holyfield fights. He was robbed in their 1st fight

Lewis would have knocked the chickenhearted ducker Bowe out in the 1st round.. Tyson and Holyfield ducked Lewis for over 10 years..

Your thoughtless assertion that Chris Byrd beat Vitali by anything other than the sheer luck of Vitali suffering a completely severed rotator cuff assembly shows your pathetic Yankee bias.. Byrd was way behind on points to a 1-armed fighter -- and couldn't win a round off his brother Wladimir in 19 rounds---and somehow Byrd was showing up Ike Ibeabuchi in your eyes??? And Henry Armstrong wasn't a fouling shoving head banger?? You're out there in the moonbeams.

You are indeed correct about the one encounter. I misspoke I was having a Bivins/Johnson/Charles/Moore confusion moment. Apologies sir.

I'm sure that my error will further increase your self confidence in terms of speaking of this sport. And if I can just get you to overcome your self doubts, I'm sure we will all be amazed by your knowledge, and expertise. I hope I can encourage you to come out of your shell, you are appreciated and admired for your sheer awesomeness.

Burley was good, but what about those bad nights with Charles?, Williams? Bivins? Leto? Zivik? Hogue? Seems far to many losses for you to be championing the career of such a fella whom you might just as easily be referring to as "loser". The guy was no Valero....right?

Burley was no Valero it's true... Valero won all his fights including all his World Title Fights -- which Burley never had any... and Valero had a 100% KO ratio.

But Burley was great too -- despite all his losses... I'm sure you can wrap your laggardly brain around that one if you try -- so I won't go into detail.

Oh yes easily wrapped.....that Valero is greater than Burley....but Burley is still mighty damn good in your book.

May not be a thought that's wrapped that tightly...but wrapped it is!


I mean...who am I to question?....I had nearly forgotten that Burley and Moore had only one encounter. That puts me in the penalty box for 2 lifetimes.

Nearly forgotten??? ... Or never had a clue until I told you?

You don't have a penalty box because you're not a player... You just like to fk with the players and threaten to put them in the penalty box.

How about going over a few of your posts and searching for appropriate content before hitting the submit button?

golden oldie wrote:Next you will be claiming Tyson had a great chin because it took Douglas 10 rounds to stop him, Holyfield 11, Lewis 8, Williams 4, and McBride 6.

Did cuts stop any of those Mike Tyson fights??? Or was it brain trauma, getting battered woozy, and/or counted out??? ... Use a little common sense... Getting flattened for 10 raises more questions about your chin than being the only 3-time Heavyweight Champion who's never been knocked down -- as Vitali is.

Some of these guys who have been decked....Tyson for example.....could still be considered to have stellar chins. I think Tyson got hit so flat and square that even in folding he showed endurance.

Earlier in his career I saw him hit by a Ruddock punch that would have flattened a train....and although he did seem dazed, he wandered back to stable pretty fast.

Can you name the single most harrowing punch that Vitali managed to recover from? Would it have been a shot from Sanders? Nothing to laugh off for sure...that's a true test!
But as you and I know.....a feather fisted Byrd did stop him. Now don't quibble....It's part of the record.....and it's why Vitali is no Valero.

Holmes should also get credit, he took some serious shots and shook them off....though I will say that the shot that took Larry down from Shavers was not as magnificent as the one that Ali managed to shake off. Ali was almost surreal in his ability to absorb in his later years.........but he paid quite a price for his over confidence on that. In the early days he was as good as Holmes at staying out of the way of incoming. (I don't want to hear about the Cooper anomaly....he didn't catch many of that variety as a younger guy)....the Banks shot was more about balance, as was the Wepner shot....and even the Frazier shot was compromised by Ali's positioning. Though the shot Frazier delivered in the corner has always mystified me. I think that might have been a real "Bingo" moment.
But even so.....look how fast Ali recovered. Monzon did the same thing with Briscoe....which by the way was a bigger deal than the off balance Valdez shot.

Kalan....you just gotta pay attention to details......or people aren't going to take you seriously. But just pay attention to what a fella like myself has to say...and you'll catch on.


I'd have a harder time giving Patterson the same grade in his various folding events....though he sure seemed to improve in time.