BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

RandomUsername wrote:Artur Szpilka managed to stay ontop of Wilder for a good number of rounds. Luis Ortiz isnt going to get outboxed by Wilder. So what about the windmilling, can Deontay simply slug Ortiz out of there? Wilder has dealt with health issues related to his insane swinging, he's less able and willing to utilize it than before. Besides, it probably wouldnt work against a bonafide veteran like Ortiz.

Wilder is a tall fellow, this means that the punches that Ortiz connects with will have more on them than if Ortiz had to punch down.

Sounds like Wilder is getting knocked out or like he'll have to do loads of hugging and running.

More leverage and power is generated punching down.

True... Much more power and leverage are generated punching down than having to punch up at your opponent... Height is a distinct advantage as it was for Forrest over Mosley... Hearns over Duran... Foreman over Frazier... Klitschko over Povetkin and Pulev... Lewis over Tyson etc.

However that's only one calculation.. Height and reach can be overcome with experience, speed, strength, skills, power, and smarts.. The age factor is also starting to be a negative for Ortiz at this point and that's why the Wilder team is tossing the dice.. but overall, Ortiz still holds the cards.

If a fighter has a 2" height advantage, it isn't a big deal. I won't go into detail but punching down at a guy......get a grip. 6-8 inches, ok, but who are we talking about here.

Wilder is 6'7". Ortiz is 6' 4" or 6'5"? Height won't be the issue.

Tbh , I expect Ortiz to win, but for the story it would be better if Wilder won, then he earned his shot at AJ himself.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No American boxers generate big money. No network would televise wilder/stiverne 2.

Beg to differ. I could see ESPN taking it. They've got a November 11 show scheduled with less than big names, so I could see them showing WIlder against just about anyone (unless by network you mean broadcast network like NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX).

Badhusker wrote:If a fighter has a 2" height advantage, it isn't a big deal. I won't go into detail but punching down at a guy......get a grip. 6-8 inches, ok, but who are we talking about here.

Wilder is 6'7". Ortiz is 6' 4" or 6'5"? Height won't be the issue.

You get a grip. He said that more power is generated punching up and I corrected him.

Best Coast wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No American boxers generate big money. No network would televise wilder/stiverne 2.

Beg to differ. I could see ESPN taking it. They've got a November 11 show scheduled with less than big names, so I could see them showing WIlder against just about anyone (unless by network you mean broadcast network like NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX).

ESPN is arum and golden boy. They have contracts, less chance of them picking it up than anyone else. The only possible chance would be bounce(which I don't even have). This was explored, nobody wants it.

IronFrost wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:Both are stunningly overrated... Wilder punches like a drunk windmill and Ortiz has looked like a 75 year old David Tua lately

How are number 2 and number 3 overrated? Is there anyone better? Are you effing retarded you casual poo?

Do you usual spout random nonsense, trying to make out you know someone when you really don't? I boxed for 20 years... casual? Don't make me laugh

This is for you benefit:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =overrated

IronFrost wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

IronFrost wrote:

How are number 2 and number 3 overrated? Is there anyone better? Are you effing retarded you casual poo?

Who did either beat to earn that ranking in your opinion?

It's not only about who beat who. For example Ortiz has decent skills , power and combinations. Rich amateur career and experience.

How can be someone in top hw tier "overrated" when there are not so much good boxers at all? What the eff

Calm down, you'll do your heart no good

If it happens Wilder will show some balls. But my dream fight for now is Joshua vs Wilder.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Badhusker wrote:If a fighter has a 2" height advantage, it isn't a big deal. I won't go into detail but punching down at a guy......get a grip. 6-8 inches, ok, but who are we talking about here.

Wilder is 6'7". Ortiz is 6' 4" or 6'5"? Height won't be the issue.

You get a grip. He said that more power is generated punching up and I corrected him.

I agree that more power can be generated punching down, but my point is that having a 2 inch height advantage isn't much of a factor. Some boxers have a big advantage in height but fight smaller, so stance and style play in also. Paul Williams comes to mind of one that didn't use his big height advantage like he could have.

montrealsuper wrote:Ortiz is old and at the end. Would he be cooperative to take a big fat bonus from haymon to take a dive so that wilder finally gets a credible (fakenews) win?

YES.

FORGET IT!!!! ... NOBODY'S going to dive.. The officials will be extremely biased in the favor of Wilder.. But if Ortiz hasn't lost it to age he's going to control the fight from the opening bell.. He'll be 4 months from his 39th birthday when the fight happens.. Klitschko recently made a good effort and tried to roll the clock back.. Mayweather won easily.. Ortiz just has to get his sleep, train intelligently, and not spare the expenses.. He need a big elaborate camp with the whole shebang, appropriate for a major Heavyweight Title Fight.. Hearn needs to fund him big.. He gets into super shape and it will drive ticket sales..

Getting appropriate sparring partners is going to be extremely tough for both guys... Wilder can get southpaws Otto Wallin... Zhilei Zhang... and Charles Martin, who'd be the worst.. Ortiz will have a tougher time.. Nobody fights like Wilder -- who can he use?...Gerald Washington? ... Tom Schwarz? ...Trevor Bryan is too short. Alexander Dimitrenko would be perfect if he could box at all, because he's got the perfect dimensions.. But he's so bad.

candyslim wrote:He'll be legit in my eyes whatever the result. Both deserve respect for taking this fight.

no, sir, they don't "deserve respect"
for just doing their job. we just got
used to so much negotiation bull$
that it seems an act of courage if a
heavy weight champion is so kind
as to fighting a top ten contender.

Ortiz has a guaranteed title shot against Joshua in London where he can earn double or treble what he'd get for fighting Wilder. He'd only have to wait until February. If he loses to Wilder that's his retirement payout against Joshua completely bollocksed. He knows that, he isn't stupid. The man has huge cojones.

And Wilder. I've been extremely disparaging of his record so maybe I'm subconsciously trying to make up for it, but he could have let Joshua take care of Ortiz citing his obligation to fight his mandatory Bermane Stiverne. Then another patsy in a voluntary ready for his mega money unification with AJ. No doubt he was feeling the heat of public criticism and Eddie Hearn pressuring him to fight a decent opponent to build his profile, but let's be generous and give him credit for choosing the path of greatest resistance.

I know that in an ideal world what you're saying is exactly right, but this is our world and it is what it is.

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Badhusker wrote:If a fighter has a 2" height advantage, it isn't a big deal. I won't go into detail but punching down at a guy......get a grip. 6-8 inches, ok, but who are we talking about here.

Wilder is 6'7". Ortiz is 6' 4" or 6'5"? Height won't be the issue.

You get a grip. He said that more power is generated punching up and I corrected him.

I agree that more power can be generated punching down, but my point is that having a 2 inch height advantage isn't much of a factor. Some boxers have a big advantage in height but fight smaller, so stance and style play in also. Paul Williams comes to mind of one that didn't use his big height advantage like he could have.

Your point had nothing to do with the discussion.

candyslim wrote:I know that in an ideal world what you're saying is exactly right, but this is our world and it is what it is.

just felt it needs to be mentioned on
a boxing board that fighting top ten
opponents is the usual thing in all
other weight classes other than the
heavy weights for the reigning champ.

It does seem that the little guys have the bigger balls sometimes but when you look at it there are shrinking violets in all weight classes and there are heavyweights who will fight anybody if the money's right: Ortiz, Joshua, Whyte, Breazeale, Miller, Chisora, to be going on with. There are many others I'm sure.

candyslim wrote:It does seem that the little guys have the bigger balls sometimes but when you look at it there are shrinking violets in all weight classes and there are heavyweights who will fight anybody if the money's right: Ortiz, Joshua, Whyte, Breazeale, Miller, Chisora, to be going on with. There are many others I'm sure.

I hadn't even heard of this fight - Nov. 4th. I wonder if it will really happen. I thought Wilder was holding out for a rematch with Charley Zelinoff.

Thank you Saad for your usual thoughtful and well reasoned contribution. It was always even money it was going to be a or a

candyslim wrote:Thank you Saad for your usual thoughtful and well reasoned contribution. It was always even money it was going to be a or a

I could just call you a bumbling idiot. Emoticons are more polite.

Not really. They don't disguise the general meaning so they fool nobody. I could resort to insulting you, but I try to treat people on here with respect whatever their level of knowledge, ability to express themselves, or how they conduct themselves ... up to a point anyway.

If you think I'm a bumbling idiot that's your opinion and I guess you're entitled to it.

Well, Wilder already "fought" Povetkin, so until I see him in the ring with Ortiz, I won't be sure.

boxing_rocks wrote:Well, Wilder already "fought" Povetkin, so until I see him in the ring with Ortiz, I won't be sure.

Now now Rocks. Let's not be uncharitable. Some people get upset

candyslim wrote:Not really. They don't disguise the general meaning so they fool nobody. I could resort to insulting you, but I try to treat people on here with respect whatever their level of knowledge, ability to express themselves, or how they conduct themselves ... up to a point anyway.

If you think I'm a bumbling idiot that's your opinion and I guess you're entitled to it.

How very insightful