BoxRec

RScarf1 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He could have moved up for carbajal or Johnson. He didn't have to, but it leaves him without the big names. Sorjaturong was his best scalp and a great performance. I thought all the guys you listed lost a fight with the exception of Marciano and I never saw Lowry. I rate good losses when rating fighters anyway. If you think ward is nowhere in the vicinity of all but Floyd you simply don't know what you're talking about.

I can say the same thing about Ward. Are all his wins legitimate? Does a boxer have to fight someone in another weight class in order to prove his greatness? Let's criticize Michael Carbajal because he did not move down in weight to fight Lopez.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Now you're not making any sense. And, ummm, I said I thought Ward lost a fight. You're asking questions I've already addressed.

RScarf1 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Now you're not making any sense. And, ummm, I said I thought Ward lost a fight. You're asking questions I've already addressed.

Okay, we'll just agree to disagree. I'm just glad Ward is retired. If people have an inflated view of him, then so be it.

Kalan wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

Kalan wrote:You're fukkiing blind if you think Ward won the first Kovalev fight... Kovalev landed more punches... landed harder punches... knocked Ward down... was the aggressor most of the way and repeatedly chased Ward to the ropes.. He won 116-111 at least.

The rematch was ended on low blows. when Kovalev bent over... Khan vs Judah was another robbery -- a deliberate low blow ended it when Judah went down for the count.. Generally you get rest or the fouler get DQ'd.. Larry Holmes repeatedly got rest from the low blows by Gerry Cooney when Holmes bent over.. Riddick Bowe got rest when he was fouled with low blows, and was eventually justly awarded both Golota fights.

Kirk Johnson got screwed when Joe Cortez called several low blows on Johnson while Ruiz was head butting him, wrestling, and physically throwing Johnson to canvas.. An accidental borderline low blow ended the fight on DQ. The punch didn't hurt Ruiz in the slightest, but Cortez handed the fight to his buddy, the fouling Ruiz, on DQ.. The commentators all disagreed with the decision.. Justice is sometimes done in this game ... at other times corruption prevails.

The first Ward-Kovalev fight was clearly closer than GGG-Canelo. I had it 114-113 Ward when watching live at home and rooting for Kovalev and was shocked when all the judges had it the same as me. Upon rewatching the fight, I realised I'd been a little generous to Ward and had Kovalev winning by a single point. 116-111 at least is bullshit - the only rounds Krusher clearly won were the 1st, 2nd and 10th, though I thought he edged the 4th and 6th as well and upon rewatching I gave him the 12th, for a 114-113 win. So while I agree Kovalev deserved to win and the 10th round scoring was fishy as hell, it's still a very close fight.

You're blind if you think the first fight was decided by one point.. What??? Did you give the 10th round to Ward on your first look see, and than realized your mistake and gave it to Kovalev on further review??? ... Good try, but I don't believe you're a Kovalev fan.

Boxing matches are scored on boxing, punches landed, knockdowns, and effective aggression -- not by pushing, mauling, head-work, leveraging with arms and elbows, low blows, and smothered inside shots that don't do a thing---where the openings are gained by illegal pushing and leveraging tactics.

Kilsby wrote:"Ward vs Kovalev 2 full fight from inside the arena"

Any Kovalev nut hugger who thinks Kovalev would have won this fight watch this on youtube.

No commentator, no bias.... Just watch the fight.

When Kovalev gets stopped he doesn't hold his nuts when he gets up he holds the right side of his stomach (shock) proof of a legitimate stoppage.

Kovalev couldn't stand the heat

squiggy wrote:Lopez ruled a division for a freakin' decade, I always think it's crazy when people slag him.

Enlightened-One wrote:Now that he's retired, I thought I’d put together a list of Andre Ward’s accomplishments:

• A dead-cert first-ballot 2022 Hall-of-Famer
• Retired with an undefeated record of 32 wins, 16 KO’s & zero defeats
• Competed in nine world title fights
• Captured world titles in two weight classes
• Defeated six former world champions: Mikkel Kessler (Three time 168lbs); Sakio Bika (168lbs); Arthur Abraham (Three time in 160lbs & 168lbs); Carl Froch (Three time 168lbs); Chad Dawson (Two time 175lbs who also defeated Bernard Hopkins); Sergey Kovalev (175lbs)
• Defeated three top-ten pound-for-pounders = Sergey Kovalev (2nd); Carl Froch (9th); Chad Dawson (10th)
• Defeated two The RING light heavyweight champions = Sergey Kovalev & Chad Dawson
• Defeated two The RING highest rated super-middleweights = Mikkel Kessler & Carl Froch
• The RING Fighter of the Year 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The RING champion at 168lbs & 175lbs
• The RING pound-for-pound top ten = 2011 (10th); 2012 (2nd); 2013 (2nd); 2017 (1st)
• The RING Champion at super-middleweight & light heavyweight
• The Boxing Writers Association of America's Fighter of the Year = 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The Ring Magazine Comeback of the Year (2016)
• ESPN Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Sports Illustrated Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Named the 22nd greatest boxer of the last 25 years by Boxing News in 2016.
• Named the 17th greatest pound-for-pound boxer of the last 25 years by a panel of experts from ESPN in 2016
• The lineal super-middleweight champion
• Captured the WBC & WBA Super World Super Middleweight Titles and also the IBF, WBO & WBA Super World Light Heavyweight Titles
• Winner of the Super Six World Boxing Classic
• Ten of his wins have come against The RING rated top-ten divisional fighters: Mikkel Kessler; Allan Green; Sakio Bika; Arthur Abraham; Carl Froch; Chad Dawson; Edwin Rodriguez; Sergey Kovalev; Edison Miranda; Paul Smith
• Excluding the Paul Smith Fight, his last ten opponents had a combined record of: 274 wins, 11 losses & 4 draws (an average record of 27 wins & only 1 loss)
• Blemished the records of seven undefeated fighters
• Olympic gold medallist 2004
• Amateur Record = 115 wins; 5 losses
• Competed in two PPV’s (Kovalev I & II)
• Hasn’t tasted defeat since he was twelve years old

gilgamesh wrote:

Kilsby wrote:"Ward vs Kovalev 2 full fight from inside the arena"

Any Kovalev nut hugger who thinks Kovalev would have won this fight watch this on youtube.

No commentator, no bias.... Just watch the fight.

When Kovalev gets stopped he doesn't hold his nuts when he gets up he holds the right side of his stomach (shock) proof of a legitimate stoppage.

Kovalev couldn't stand the heat

What kinda stupid ass logic is this? What does it matter if he held the right side of his stomach? Doesn't change the fact that the fight ended on 3 consecutive low blows.

RScarf1 wrote:

squiggy wrote:Lopez ruled a division for a freakin' decade, I always think it's crazy when people slag him.

You're right. Lopez is one of the best of all time and he is a more accomplished boxer than Roman Gonzalez.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:

squiggy wrote:Lopez ruled a division for a freakin' decade, I always think it's crazy when people slag him.

You're right. Lopez is one of the best of all time and he is a more accomplished boxer than Roman Gonzalez.

How?

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems to me that most of the people that have contributed to this thread severely dislike Andre Ward and don't respect his boxing ability nor his accomplishments.

So I'm going to ask a fairly simple question to a set of people that boldly profess to being "experts" and hardcore aficionados of the sport of boxing...

Name three currently active boxers (i.e. not retired) that possess a better resume than Andre Ward?

Just a reminder, the combined "value" of their own accomplishments have to surpass this set of feats:

Enlightened-One wrote:Now that he's retired, I thought I’d put together a list of Andre Ward’s accomplishments:

• A dead-cert first-ballot 2022 Hall-of-Famer
• Retired with an undefeated record of 32 wins, 16 KO’s & zero defeats
• Competed in nine world title fights
• Captured world titles in two weight classes
• Defeated six former world champions: Mikkel Kessler (Three time 168lbs); Sakio Bika (168lbs); Arthur Abraham (Three time in 160lbs & 168lbs); Carl Froch (Three time 168lbs); Chad Dawson (Two time 175lbs who also defeated Bernard Hopkins); Sergey Kovalev (175lbs)
• Defeated three top-ten pound-for-pounders = Sergey Kovalev (2nd); Carl Froch (9th); Chad Dawson (10th)
• Defeated two The RING light heavyweight champions = Sergey Kovalev & Chad Dawson
• Defeated two The RING highest rated super-middleweights = Mikkel Kessler & Carl Froch
• The RING Fighter of the Year 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The RING champion at 168lbs & 175lbs
• The RING pound-for-pound top ten = 2011 (10th); 2012 (2nd); 2013 (2nd); 2017 (1st)
• The RING Champion at super-middleweight & light heavyweight
• The Boxing Writers Association of America's Fighter of the Year = 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The Ring Magazine Comeback of the Year (2016)
• ESPN Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Sports Illustrated Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Named the 22nd greatest boxer of the last 25 years by Boxing News in 2016.
• Named the 17th greatest pound-for-pound boxer of the last 25 years by a panel of experts from ESPN in 2016
• The lineal super-middleweight champion
• Captured the WBC & WBA Super World Super Middleweight Titles and also the IBF, WBO & WBA Super World Light Heavyweight Titles
• Winner of the Super Six World Boxing Classic
• Ten of his wins have come against The RING rated top-ten divisional fighters: Mikkel Kessler; Allan Green; Sakio Bika; Arthur Abraham; Carl Froch; Chad Dawson; Edwin Rodriguez; Sergey Kovalev; Edison Miranda; Paul Smith
• Excluding the Paul Smith Fight, his last ten opponents had a combined record of: 274 wins, 11 losses & 4 draws (an average record of 27 wins & only 1 loss)
• Blemished the records of seven undefeated fighters
• Olympic gold medallist 2004
• Amateur Record = 115 wins; 5 losses
• Competed in two PPV’s (Kovalev I & II)
• Hasn’t tasted defeat since he was twelve years old

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't particularly care about titles when evaluating fighters. The guy I think was the goat never fought for one.

Tomasino wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't particularly care about titles when evaluating fighters. The guy I think was the goat never fought for one.

Sam?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't particularly care about titles when evaluating fighters. The guy I think was the goat never fought for one.

Sam?

though I go back and forth with him and greb. Motherfucker, my phone changed greb to been. Is there any way to turn that poo off?

squiggy wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems to me that most of the people that have contributed to this thread severely dislike Andre Ward and don't respect his boxing ability nor his accomplishments.

So I'm going to ask a fairly simple question to a set of people that boldly profess to being "experts" and hardcore aficionados of the sport of boxing...

Name three currently active boxers (i.e. not retired) that possess a better resume than Andre Ward?

Just a reminder, the combined "value" of their own accomplishments have to surpass this set of feats:

Enlightened-One wrote:Now that he's retired, I thought I’d put together a list of Andre Ward’s accomplishments:

• A dead-cert first-ballot 2022 Hall-of-Famer
• Retired with an undefeated record of 32 wins, 16 KO’s & zero defeats
• Competed in nine world title fights
• Captured world titles in two weight classes
• Defeated six former world champions: Mikkel Kessler (Three time 168lbs); Sakio Bika (168lbs); Arthur Abraham (Three time in 160lbs & 168lbs); Carl Froch (Three time 168lbs); Chad Dawson (Two time 175lbs who also defeated Bernard Hopkins); Sergey Kovalev (175lbs)
• Defeated three top-ten pound-for-pounders = Sergey Kovalev (2nd); Carl Froch (9th); Chad Dawson (10th)
• Defeated two The RING light heavyweight champions = Sergey Kovalev & Chad Dawson
• Defeated two The RING highest rated super-middleweights = Mikkel Kessler & Carl Froch
• The RING Fighter of the Year 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The RING champion at 168lbs & 175lbs
• The RING pound-for-pound top ten = 2011 (10th); 2012 (2nd); 2013 (2nd); 2017 (1st)
• The RING Champion at super-middleweight & light heavyweight
• The Boxing Writers Association of America's Fighter of the Year = 2011 (& probably 2017)
• The Ring Magazine Comeback of the Year (2016)
• ESPN Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Sports Illustrated Fighter of the Year (2011) (& probably 2017)
• Named the 22nd greatest boxer of the last 25 years by Boxing News in 2016.
• Named the 17th greatest pound-for-pound boxer of the last 25 years by a panel of experts from ESPN in 2016
• The lineal super-middleweight champion
• Captured the WBC & WBA Super World Super Middleweight Titles and also the IBF, WBO & WBA Super World Light Heavyweight Titles
• Winner of the Super Six World Boxing Classic
• Ten of his wins have come against The RING rated top-ten divisional fighters: Mikkel Kessler; Allan Green; Sakio Bika; Arthur Abraham; Carl Froch; Chad Dawson; Edwin Rodriguez; Sergey Kovalev; Edison Miranda; Paul Smith
• Excluding the Paul Smith Fight, his last ten opponents had a combined record of: 274 wins, 11 losses & 4 draws (an average record of 27 wins & only 1 loss)
• Blemished the records of seven undefeated fighters
• Olympic gold medallist 2004
• Amateur Record = 115 wins; 5 losses
• Competed in two PPV’s (Kovalev I & II)
• Hasn’t tasted defeat since he was twelve years old

The list that springs to my mind is: Jones, Pacquaio, and Toney.

Kalan wrote:Khan vs Judah was another robbery -- a deliberate low blow ended it when Judah went down for the count..

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Kalan wrote:Khan vs Judah was another robbery -- a deliberate low blow ended it when Judah went down for the count..

You are bugging.
No one on this forum was defending Zab more than me.
No one on this forum was real about Amir Khan than me.

Zab, like Kovalev, QUIT.
Khan was beating him, and Zab was barely punching because he was going through that Pernell Whitaker stage.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

RScarf1 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Much better? That's laughable. Lopez is one of the most overrated resumes in history. If he had the ambition of Roman gonzalez he might have been as great.

Here is their boxrec all-time ratings and records:
Floyd Mayweather No. 1 (50-0)
Ricardo Lopez No. 39 (51-0-1)
Joe Calzaghe No. 43 (46-0)
Andre Ward No. 150 (32-0)
The computer rates them based on the quality of their opposition and the results against them. Ward will be in the hall of fame, but he's not an all-time great. There are boxers with losses that had better careers than Ward. Most of the all-time greats have losses on their record.

Boxrec has the worst all time rankings I've ever seen. I never said anything about losses, you brought up the guys without any and your rating of them is terrible. Obviously you hate ward too much to discuss him rationally.