BoxRec

Spud wrote:The question which everyone is avoiding - in the bigger scheme of things - whoever wins Bellew/Haye 2 what does it prove?

Without insulting either boxer - will the winner go onto beat Joshua?

Its just another great big fat pay day for both with the winner being hyped up by the journalists and the public being hoodwinked that the winner is a viable threat.

If Haye demolishes Bellew as he promised in fight 1 - then wouldn't he be in a similar position as he was before March - considered a threat?

Bellew has said time and time again Joshua is on another level - if he wins, he'll be looking at Wilder / Parker and then, perhaps then, there might be a clamour for Joshua.

Haye might be a different story, but he would need to demolish Bellew in the fashion he promised in fight 1... and even if he does that the likelihood is that he will need to fight a Parker or a Wilder to be really considered a viable threat.

Problem is though - whether it is Haye, Bellew or whoever - Joshua vs me would be PPV and sell out well - whether he is considered a viable threat or not. Joshua is fighting one of the top Heavyweights on the planet next and he is not considered a viable threat. There is currently only 1 viable threat to Joshua and he weighs 25 stone.... Any threat people perceived Parker to be has gone with Fury performance and Wilder is also doing a poor a job as a champion as I have ever seen in the Heavyweight division.... he is losing credibility with each performance.

The winner of Haye vs Bellew will be seen as the same type of threat as Pulev.... Is that viable, No - Does Eddie give a shit No - because it will sell anywhere - but then as I said, Joshua vs Me would do okay also.

Good post StuJones

wilder is more of a threat than fury was. joshua probably ktfos him but the power gives wilder a chance. josh can be hurt and survivng wlad doesnt mean he survives any rough spell. wilders the only guy id make a realistic threat to josh, though odds still heavily for josh. i think ppl would see wilder as far greater threat than pulev or injured haye.

Wilder is suspect in the whiskers department

he is though hes not as brittle as ppl have made out. he doesnt fold as soon as hit. ppl go heavily on his amateur stoppage loss for that but hed been boxing like 2 years at time.

Yes Wilder is more of a threat than Pulev and an "injured" Haye...but not as much as an in shape Fury....he's hardly setting the world alight as champion. Struggling against b standard opposition that Joshua is embarrassing. The power seems to be dimishing since stepping up.

wilder much bigger threat than in shape fury. fury doesnt have the power to get ajs respect and aj too simple of a man to overthink and not throw like wlad did. wilder is raw as hell but with this power one mistake can be all it takes to get hurt, dropped, stopped, etc. think he has a realistic outside shot at josh, while fury would have far less. cant see how fury doesnt get caught eventually and he doesnt have power to get to aj first. wilder does. wilder also just as fast with his hands as josh.

stujones wrote: Wilder is also doing a poor a job as a champion as I have ever seen in the Heavyweight division

Hmmm... At least he fought a couple guys who were undefeated, somebody heard of, or were ranked somewhere like Washington.. How about Tommy Morrison dude??? He fought 2 challengers who nobody ever heard of.. The 2nd who was 10-1, and who knocked Morrison out in the 1st round.

Was that a joke or what??

What about Charles Martin?? He has to be commended for one thing anyway.. He went for the big one for his 1st Title Defense, taking on Anthony Joshua.. Brave man, but he didn't perform.. So called Heavyweight Champions have been stinking it up for a long time.

stujones wrote:Good post and I would agree.... I must admit I've kind of developed a bit of a soft spot for Haye in more recent times mainly because he was my Dad's favourite fighter in recent times and my dad is no longer with us - so I do will him to do well for my dad. Infact the last fight I listened to with my Dad was Haye vs Bellew - we listened to it cos my Dad was on his deathbed - a special moment and will never forget my Dad's words "well like me, my boy (which is what he called Haye) is fucked".... but yes, I can remember Haye as a cruiserweight developing a nasty cut (was it against Fragomeni?) and Haye was really fixated by it at the end of the fight. If I remember, that gave Enzo a bit of a false hope that Haye had "no heart" - but despite his pretty boy looks and a couple of odd displays (namely Klitchsko and a few others particularly in his amateur days) he has always ticked the ticker box - yes has flaws, stamina, chin isn't granite etc - but no one can dispute his fighting spirit vs Mormeck, Mock and off course Bellew.

Belated condolences, mate. Glad you were able to listen to that last fight with him.

Haye is a tosser, there's no doubt, but I've seen him in random non-boxing interviews and he's capable of coming across as a sympathetic guy. It's like he grew up as a quiet kid and used Clubber Lang as a reference for how to front. Some of it clearly is genuine arrogance, but he brought the goods at cruiser. Wlad's 4" taller and a chunk heavier, so he had no choice but to ditch his low leading glove; at least not after Wlad fired up his jabs. And Valuev... well of course he had to fight like that. Comparing him to Holyfield's whataboutery, because he did win.

And some people forget that Wlad didn't blast him out of there, because for all his advantages — and this was peak Wlad, he kept voluntarily backing up after short attacks. Wlad beat Haye in much the same way that Haye beat Valuev. And if Haye were still his 2012 self and beat Joshua (very possible, I'd say), who else could beat him?

Like I said earlier (I think!), it always felt to me as if Haye was tempted up to heavyweight by Lewis' retirement. I know there was a four-year gap, but he saw how Lewis had gone from underrated and somewhat shunned (Jamaican-Canadian loser!), to a British king following his wins over Rahman, Tyson and Klitschko. With Lewis gone he had a chance, and Audley was on his merry-go-round by then, so the papers were after their next favourite. But if only he'd stayed at cruiser... If he went back and beat Usyk now, that's a fairytale ending.

Haye went to heavyweight for the money. He made a pretty good heavyweight too, to be fair.

He's completely finished now though obviously. But providing he turns up fit, he beats Bellew everyday of the week. Even when Haye is 50 years old. Prime for prime, Bellew couldn't lace his gloves. Different level altogether and I suspect Bellew would admit as much.

Bellew's a cruiser himself, of course. Haye could probably still get close to 200 if he wanted to. A natural 215 for sure.

Because 220's his real weight at heavy, so anything below 210 is probably drainable.