BoxRec

Controversial wrote: Pep went 62 fights undefeated, not 70. However your original point was how many undefeated opponents SRR beat.
In SRR first 62 fights he only beat one undefeated guy, Marty Servo who was 42-0-2
SRR had 22 wins over top 10 ranked opponents in those 62 fights and a win over a reigning world champ

Both Pep and Robinson were matched to keep them unbeaten.. Servo was matched softly as well.. He won 1 World Title Fight.. Servo's career ended at the youthful age of 27 when he was knocked out in the 1st round by an unknown guy with a 26-9-3 record.

A lot of poorly skilled fighters have been ranked in the top ten who Robinson fought -- Including Tommy Bell who they matched with Robinson for the a vacant Welterweight Title.. Bell had 10 previous losses including 1 to Robinson ... Mayweather beat 25 World Champions in his first 49 fights and remained unbeaten -- and had 3 times as many World Title Fights in his career as Robinson did.. A lot of Floyd's opponents were reigning champions.. I guess you could say every top prospect is matched to keep them undefeated -- but when you look at some fighter's records like Jimmy Wilde and Ray Robinson it's a bit over the top.

Kalan wrote: ... Mayweather beat 25 World Champions in his first 49 fights and remained unbeaten -- and had 3 times as many World Title Fights in his career as Robinson did.

You know full well that statement has to be qualified regarding the numerous sanctioning bodies.

Floyd fought the top opponents at each weight until his last 3 or 4 years in the game... He certainly beat more highly skilled boxers than Robinson did.

Look for the Judah's, Cotto's, De La Hoya's, Pacquiao's, Corley's, Mosley's, and Alvarez's on Robinson's record... SRR never beat that caliber of opponent.

Judah and Corley?

No, sure, Robinson never beat fistic luminaries on their level

Who was a fast and slick southpaw who Robinson beat???? ... In 200 fights he never beat anyone like that.

Name a great southpaw he avoided

Counter-puncher wrote:Name a great southpaw he avoided

Gustav Scholz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kalan wrote:

Controversial wrote: Pep went 62 fights undefeated, not 70. However your original point was how many undefeated opponents SRR beat.
In SRR first 62 fights he only beat one undefeated guy, Marty Servo who was 42-0-2
SRR had 22 wins over top 10 ranked opponents in those 62 fights and a win over a reigning world champ

Both Pep and Robinson were matched to keep them unbeaten.. Servo was matched softly as well.. He won 1 World Title Fight.. Servo's career ended at the youthful age of 27 when he was knocked out in the 1st round by an unknown guy with a 26-9-3 record.

A lot of poorly skilled fighters have been ranked in the top ten who Robinson fought -- Including Tommy Bell who they matched with Robinson for the a vacant Welterweight Title.. Bell had 10 previous losses including 1 to Robinson ... Mayweather beat 25 World Champions in his first 49 fights and remained unbeaten -- and had 3 times as many World Title Fights in his career as Robinson did.. A lot of Floyd's opponents were reigning champions.. I guess you could say every top prospect is matched to keep them undefeated -- but when you look at some fighter's records like Jimmy Wilde and Ray Robinson it's a bit over the top.

All unbeaten fighters are invariably matched to keep them unbeaten, I'm not sure what your point is. However SRR fought and beat numerous top 10 ranked fighters while the WW title was frozen, that isn't being matched easy. Guys today rarely fight the best, the knock over a few tomato cans until they get ranked and then they fight for the title. If they are truly good they win and defend it and others lose never to be heard of again. There have thousands of fighters over the years and only a tiny fraction have retired undefeated. Mayweather also picked the best time to fight certain fighters and he also made sure they were all in Vegas so he could have his hands injected. Mayweather also only fought three undefeated fighters.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Name a great southpaw he avoided

Gustav Scholz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the smartest thing you've said today... Scholz went undefeated for his first 68 fights... Far longer than Robinson... When Scholz came over to the US to campaign he got a grand total of one (1) fight and eventually just gave up and went back to Germany... Jim Norris shut him down everywhere.

Who couldn't box or punch and was extremely easy to hit.

Mike Tyson won 28 straight fights in 18 months... But fought the 28th one for the Heavyweight Championship when he was 20 years old... He continued to win 9 straight World Title Defenses -- and That more successful World Title Defenses than Ray Robinson ever achieved in his life.

And when Tyson finally got beaten it was by somebody bigger, faster, stronger, taller, heavier, smarter, better prepared and conditioned for the fight, and a faster and slicker boxer... When Sugar Ray Robinson got beat it was by somebody shorter, slower, dumber, very unslick and unskilled, and a light hitter who had more previous losses than Douglas...a lower winning ratio than Douglas...and a KO ratio that was about half of what Buster Douglas achieved.

Kalan wrote:Mike Tyson won 28 straight fights in 18 months... But fought the 28th one for the Heavyweight Championship when he was 20 years old... He continued to win 9 straight World Title Defenses -- and That more successful World Title Defenses than Ray Robinson ever achieved in his life.

Same thing buddy - he wan't "The Heavyweight Champion" until he beat (hell) out of Spinks; then after Spinks he had only two successful defenses. - In the 1940s his seven title fights, leading up to Spinks, would have been identified as contender eliminations bouts, not title fights. - because of what prize fighting became in the 1980s you can't fairly use 'number of title fights' as a proper comparison (with earlier fighters.)

The number of SRR title fights, had he fought post 1980, (in the era of multiple titles,) would likely have dwarfed any recent ATG's number, certainly Tyson's.

Robinson didn't want World Titles necessarily..

He wasn't in a hurry to fight for them. His thing was building his ring record not titles.. If you win a title you have to face the official challenger sooner or later. That can mean very a risky fight. Robinson got tagged up quite a bit and didn't like to fight top skilled guys. Certainly he beat no master boxers.

When Robinson won titles he didn't defend them often and fought multiple non-title fights vs 2nd rate fighters... The Welterweight challengers he beat weren't on the scale, skill wise, of Tyson's defeated challengers.. No 34-0 Tony Tucker or 31-0 ATG such as Michael Spinks.. Tyson was certainly the real Heavyweight Champion and recognized as the best Heavyweight in the world as soon as he beat Berbick.. Spinks put him off as long as possible cuz he knew he'd get killed.

Post 1980 the Welterweight Division was much tougher and nobody like Tommy Bell could have contended for the top spot. Nobody like Turpin, Basilio, or Fullmer would have beaten Marvin Hagler, Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum,James Toney, Reggie Johnson or some of the other top-notch boxer-puncher types who were inhabiting the Middleweight Division during that period... Robinson had all he could handle with the geeks of his day.

Like I said, Robinson wasn't in a hurry to fight for World Titles. His thing was building his ring record not titles.. If you win a title you have to face the official challenger at some point, and that might mean a risky fight. Robinson got tagged up quite a bit and didn't even like to fight half-skilled guys like Ralph Jones -- who he refused to rematch after he got his ass trounced.. He certainly beat no master boxers like Bernard Hopkins or Roy Jones.

When Robinson won titles he didn't defend them often and fought multiple non-title fights vs 2nd rate fighters... And as I said, The Welterweight and Middleweight challengers he beat weren't on the level, skill wise, of Tyson's 9 defeated challengers ’87 through ’89... As I said, he fought no 34-0 Tony Tucker’s or no 31-0 ATG’s such as Michael Spinks.. Tyson was certainly the real Heavyweight Champion and recognized as the best Heavyweight in the world when he beat Berbick..

And as I said, Spinks put Tyson off for as long as possible and cashed out of there.. Even at a solid 212 Spinks looked like a waif compared to Mighty Mike.. Shiit man, he looked like he didn’t want to be there. But who was an undefeated boxer-puncher the caliber of Michael Spinks who ever Robinson ever beat???

Basilio and fullmer would have to be big favorites over toney. It's cute how you like to pretend Dave tiberi didn't whip his ass. Oh Lord, the names you'd call tiberi if he did that to Robinson at that age. You wouldn't even have to go on and on about Ralph Jones, who was much better than tiberi.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's cute how you like to pretend Dave tiberi didn't whip his ass.

Can't agree with that one, you actually have to hurt someone before you can say he 'whipped is ass.' - Toney looked asleep that day (I think he was high, seriously).

APerno wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's cute how you like to pretend Dave tiberi didn't whip his ass.

Can't agree with that one, you actually have to hurt someone before you can say he 'whipped is ass.' - Toney looked asleep that day (I think he was high, seriously).

Semantics, he dominated that fight by punching toney over and over. I think James dropped him in the second, lost every other round.

golden oldie wrote:According to your perverted logic Maxim decided to make Robinson work by letting himself become a punchbag, care to explain what Maxims strategy was to have referee Goldstein replaced in round 10? So to reiterate SRR retired in December 52 with a record of 132 - 3 - 2, but according to you he was afraid of facing fighters who could " tag him up "

You have to be the most simple minded carrot who was ever kerploshed into the world.. Maxim wasn't the punching bag in that fight.. Maxim took far more punishment from Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore in his 8 fights with them than Robinson could dream of delivering.. Charles and Moore were 2 ATG boxer-punchers who could register on the Richter Scale.. Compared to them, Robinson's dainty punches felt like a Lightweight's..

What Middleweight Champion challenges for the Light Heavyweight Championship and weighs in at 157??? How stupid is that? You build your body up for that kind of fight.. Roy Jones won World Titles in 4 weight classes.. He's the 1st MIddleweight King in 103 years to win the Heavyweight Title -- and he didn't weigh in at 172.. Just before the fight they weighed Roy.. He brought 198 pounds of Heavyweight Power into that ring -- and solid as a rock.. Maxim told the skinny Robinson he wasn't breaking popcorn.. The Sugar Man's punches had as much effect on the super tough Italian as rain on a duck.

As far as referee Ruby Goldstein is concerned the man was a rank Idiot.. He used more energy than both fighters dancing, prancing, and jumping around that ring like a clown.. He brought no water to drink between rounds.. When Goldstein had a dizzy spell he said he had no idea what was going on.

Kalan wrote:

golden oldie wrote:According to your perverted logic Maxim decided to make Robinson work by letting himself become a punchbag, care to explain what Maxims strategy was to have referee Goldstein replaced in round 10? So to reiterate SRR retired in December 52 with a record of 132 - 3 - 2, but according to you he was afraid of facing fighters who could " tag him up "

You have to be the most simple minded carrot who was ever kerploshed into the world.. Maxim wasn't the punching bag in that fight.. Maxim took far more punishment from Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore in his 8 fights with them than Robinson could dream of delivering.. Charles and Moore were 2 ATG boxer-punchers who could register on the Richter Scale.. Compared to them, Robinson's dainty punches felt like a Lightweight's..

What Middleweight Champion challenges for the Light Heavyweight Championship and weighs in at 157??? How stupid is that? You build your body up for that kind of fight.. Roy Jones won World Titles in 4 weight classes.. He's the 1st MIddleweight King in 103 years to win the Heavyweight Title -- and he didn't weigh in at 172.. Just before the fight they weighed Roy.. He brought 198 pounds of Heavyweight Power into that ring -- and solid as a rock.. Maxim told the skinny Robinson he wasn't breaking popcorn.. The Sugar Man's punches had as much effect on the super tough Italian as rain on a duck.

As far as referee Ruby Goldstein is concerned the man was a rank Idiot.. He used more energy than both fighters dancing, prancing, and jumping around that ring like a clown.. He brought no water to drink between rounds.. When Goldstein had a dizzy spell he said he had no idea what was going on.

What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?

golden oldie wrote: 90 % or more of the creeps Tyson fought 87 - 90 were alcoholics, junkies, both, or just plain bums. The first guy he did meet who had no problems with chemicals, and fancied training properly to have a real fight, exposed the cretin

Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks were highly skilled ATG fighters who were only stopped once in their careers by Iron Mike Tyson ... Holmes fought until he was 52 and certainly gave a great account of himself versus Holyfield, McCall, and Mercer when he was well past 40... As I said, he was only stopped once in his whole career by Iron Mike. What seems lost on you is that Mike was a great puncher. Michael Spinks weighed 212, was the Undefeated Lineal Heavyweight Champion of the World - who hadn't been beaten in 4 previous Heavyweight Championship Fights.. He went 90 seconds before getting knocked cold.

I don't see why Basilio or Fullmer would be favored over Toney. Toney having a bad performance against Tiberi is not enough reason in itself to pick these guys against him especially Basilio who didn't accomplish much at middleweight.

Right... Basilio already had 12 defeats to nondescript fighters when he fought SRR... Toney won a hotly disputed decision -- and what else is new in Boxing???

Toney remained undefeated vs Tiberi and was never beaten in 7 World Middleweight Championship Fights... Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title defenses.

Kalan wrote:Right... Basilio already had 12 defeats to nondescript fighters when he fought SRR... Toney won a hotly disputed decision -- and what else is new in Boxing???

Toney remained undefeated vs Tiberi and was never beaten in 7 World Middleweight Championship Fights... Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title defenses.

What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?

Cojimar 1946 wrote:I don't see why Basilio or Fullmer would be favored over Toney. Toney having a bad performance against Tiberi is not enough reason in itself to pick these guys against him especially Basilio who didn't accomplish much at middleweight.

I'm not surprised you don't understand it.