BoxRec

Don't care about the label Champion" anymore. That's pretty funny. I also have Joshua @ 1 and Wilder @ 2.

I think the division is only "terrible" because they fight once a year when they should be fighting 4X a year. Yes, it is terrible because its in slow motion.

Tony1244 wrote:Don't care about the label Champion" anymore. That's pretty funny. I also have Joshua @ 1 and Wilder @ 2.

I think the division is only "terrible" because they fight once a year when they should be fighting 4X a year. Yes, it is terrible because its in slow motion.

Not a bit. I've had ggg #1 since Martinez. Lineage is simply opinion in a different form now. The only use it ever served was when there was only one for a history tracker.

Badhusker wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:No

There's been weaker Heavyweight Titlists just within the last 10 years.

I know trolling isn't supposed to be allowed on this forum. Could you explain what trolling is?

Do you really need me to?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I couldn't care less about that label anymore. I think Joshua is clearly #1. I've thought he was the best heavyweight since long before he even won his first strap. The division is so terrible building a strong resume is virtually impossible. I'll just say that it's also clear to me that Wilder is his biggest threat. Unless you're talking to assmuncher talk about a fat old Chinese man or a 2 fight novice.

I agree with this 100% it is very hard to build a strong resume, the whole of the heavweight division avoid each other. There was just 1 REAL fight where 2 heavweights in the top 10 met last year and that was the Joshua-Klitschko fight. When you get the likes of Christian Hammer, Duhaupas in the top 10 who are proven to lose at a fairly low level you know it is bad.

It is a hard one to call when you think about it. He has had 38 professional fights, and has won 37 by knockout so far, which at first glance sounds impressive. But when you sit down and pull it all apart the questions of is he being protected, brought along to slowly etc are going to surface. But he has had two fights in the shape of Alexander Povetkin and Luis Ortiz collapse because of both them testing positive for drugs, so we have yet to see him tested.

Wilder never had really impressive fight. both Molina, Szpilka, Duhaupas and Washington been defeated more impressive by other fighters

Cent0089 wrote:As far as i dont like Wilder, he has some solid wins in his resume.

sorry ... WHAT?

man wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:As far as i dont like Wilder, he has some solid wins in his resume.

sorry ... WHAT?

Worst HW champion ever cannot defeat Szpilka, Stiverne and Washington

No doubt he isn't the worst ever or even that close (I'm sure I could think of ten or more who were or are worse) but could he be the worst with more than three title defences? Nobody other than Valuev springs to mind at least.

Cent0089 wrote:

man wrote:

Cent0089 wrote:As far as i dont like Wilder, he has some solid wins in his resume.

sorry ... WHAT?

Worst HW champion ever cannot defeat Szpilka, Stiverne and Washington

really? please check up all title
holders of the belt wilder has
right now and tell me who would
have lost against these gentlemen.

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:No doubt he isn't the worst ever or even that close (I'm sure I could think of ten or more who were or are worse) but could he be the worst with more than three title defences? Nobody other than Valuev springs to mind at least.

he is not the worst champion in history,
but there is no solid win on his record.

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:No doubt he isn't the worst ever or even that close (I'm sure I could think of ten or more who were or are worse) but could he be the worst with more than three title defences? Nobody other than Valuev springs to mind at least.

Vitali is close.

The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years. Wilder had a better excuse, he didn't have the amateur pedigree of the Klitschkos.

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years. Wilder had a better excuse, he didn't have the amateur pedigree of the Klitschkos.

Wilder boxed since his teenage years, his lack of experience is a joke of a story.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:It is a hard one to call when you think about it. He has had 38 professional fights, and has won 37 by knockout so far, which at first glance sounds impressive. But when you sit down and pull it all apart the questions of is he being protected, brought along to slowly etc are going to surface. But he has had two fights in the shape of Alexander Povetkin and Luis Ortiz collapse because of both them testing positive for drugs, so we have yet to see him tested.

That seems pretty fair and balanced. Sure, he didn't always sign up for the toughest opponent but you can say that about virtually anybody.

Tony1244 wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:It is a hard one to call when you think about it. He has had 38 professional fights, and has won 37 by knockout so far, which at first glance sounds impressive. But when you sit down and pull it all apart the questions of is he being protected, brought along to slowly etc are going to surface. But he has had two fights in the shape of Alexander Povetkin and Luis Ortiz collapse because of both them testing positive for drugs, so we have yet to see him tested.

That seems pretty fair and balanced. Sure, he didn't always sign up for the toughest opponent but you can say that about virtually anybody.

Thank you very much Tony. I try and be as fair as I can. I do like Deontay Wilder, because he comes over very well as a good outgoing bloke with a good back story when you take he is a former Olympian and has a daughter with health problems, and he goes to give us what we want to see from a heavyweight, which is knockouts. Yes people are going to talk about the run and who he has fought to acrew his knockout run. But (from an American perspective) they are still going to tune in and watch him because of the back story, he knocks people out and he ended a run when there was no American boxer who held a portion of the World Heavyweight title.

But as a fight fan, I want to see him tested and have to dig out a win. I think he did in the first fight against Bermaine Stiverne, but like all champions we need to see how reacts when he is rocked and dropped in a fight. We saw Anthony Joshua get the full works against Wladimir Klitschko on the biggest stage possible here in the UK, but he pulled it out of the fire. And that is what people want out of Wilder.

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years. Wilder had a better excuse, he didn't have the amateur pedigree of the Klitschkos.

That is a total crock of bullcrap..

Vitali fought appropriately experienced guys with winning records starting off his pro career. He didn't fight a bunch of debuting Heavyweights or guys with zero or very few wins like Marciano and a lot of others.. His progression was steady.. He fought for the European Heavyweight Championship when he had 21 fights and went after his first of 3 World Championships when he had only 24 fights.. Herbie Hide was 31-1 and had only lost to Riddick Bowe. Vitali took him out in 2 rounds for his first World Title.. Throughout his career Klitschko sought to fight the best competition out there -- but they ducked him.. Danny Williams knocked out Mike Tyson -- and in his next fight Danny Williams was blown away by Vitali Klistschko.

When somebody beat up or knocked out Wladimir Klitschko -- Vitali returned the favor and stopped him if he could possibly get a fight with him.. Vitali Klitschko is the only fighter who ever KO'd Kirk Johnson, Vaughan Bean, or Larry Donald.. He was the first boxer who ever stopped many others.. He was ducked by Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis for their rematch.. and never ducked anyone.

i made a comparison of some recent selected fights of the top of HW

Joshua:
21-0-0 Gary Cornish TKO 1 (52 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
16-0-0 Dillian Whyte TKO 7 (52 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
23-0-1 Charles Martin KO 2 (247 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
17-0-0 Dominic Breazeale TKO 7 (108 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
25-3-0 Eric Molina TKO 3 (123 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W L W W
64-4-0 Wladimir Klitschko TKO 11 (570 boxrec points, 5 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W L
166-7-1, 6 opponents, 1152 boxrec points, 31 rounds
Povetkin:
27-0-0 Andrzej Wawrzyk KO 3 (80 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
26-1-0 Manuel Charr KO 7 (116 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: L W W W W W
30-1-1 Carlos Takam KO 10 (168 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W W D W
21-1-1 Mike Perez TKO 1 (106 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W D L W
31-1-0 Mariusz Wach TKO 12 (57 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W L W W W W
34-3-0 Johann Duhaupas KO 6 (124 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W L W L W W
31-2-0 Andriy Rudenko UD 12 (56 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
200-9-2, 7 opponents, 707 boxrec points, 51 rounds
Wilder:
36-1-1 Malik Scott KO 1 (53 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W D L W
24-1-1 Bermane Stiverne UD 12 (229 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
23-2-0 Eric Molina KO 9 (66 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: L W W W W W
32-2-0 Johann Duhaupas TKO 11 (75 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W L W
20-1-0 Artur Szpilka KO 9 (136 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W L W W W W
36-4-1 Chris Arreola RTD 8 (76 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W L W L W D
18-0-1 Gerald Washington TKO 5 (92 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W D W W
189-11-4, 7 opponents, 727 boxrec points, 55 rounds
Parker:
33-2-1 Carlos Takam UD 12 (108 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: D W L W W W
38-2-0 Alexander Dimitrenko KO 3 (58 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
29-0-0 Andy Ruiz Jr MD 12 (95 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
16-2-0 Razvan Cojanu UD 12 (28 boxrec points, 2 stars fight) last 6: W W L W W W
20-0-0 Hughie Fury MD 12 (66 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
136-6-1, 5 opponents, 355 boxrec points, 51 rounds
Ortiz:
20-1-1 Matias Ariel Vidondo KO 3 (72 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W W
19-1-0 Bryant Jennings TKO 7 (130 boxrec points, 3 stars fight) last 6: W W W W W L
40-6-0 Tony Thompson KO 6 (120 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: W L W L W L
38-2-1 Malik Scott UD 12 (151 boxrec points, 4 stars fight) last 6: D L W L W W
9-1-1 David Allen TKO 7 (20 boxrec points, 2 stars fight) last 6: D W W W W L
126-11-3, 5 opponents, 493 boxrec points, 35 rounds

Joshua win over Klitschko is by far the best
Povetkin has similar KO power as Wilder
Parker struggles against any decent opponent
Ortiz was only impressive vs Jennings
AJ had no fear to face unbeaten opponents

based on recent resume, i rank HW like this
1.Joshua
------------
2.Povetkin
3.Wilder
------------
4.Ortiz/Parker

With Fury active and in shape and Wlad not retired (both these things are impossible though) i would rank Wilder as no 5 now
a division with Joshua, Klitschko, Fury, Povetkin, Wilder, Parker, Ortiz, Pulev, Takam, Breazeale, Whyte, Miller, Kownacki could be no worse than CW

Surfing this forum for the last year, I don't know if:

1) Wilder is the worst HW champ ever because everyone who wants to fight him wants to do it hopped up on PED's

or

2) Wilder (and every other top 20 HW over 6'4/230) would just walk through Joe Louis AND Joe Frazier in the same night, because of.......size.



Both, I guess.

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years.

now, that is just stunningly stupid.

ldlamb wrote:Surfing this forum for the last year, I don't know if:

1) Wilder is the worst HW champ ever because everyone who wants to fight him wants to do it hopped up on PED's

or

2) Wilder (and every other top 20 HW over 6'4/230) would just walk through Joe Louis AND Joe Frazier in the same night, because of.......size.



Both, I guess.

none, i guess.

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years.

now, that is just stunningly stupid.

Please explain, my man. By stumblebum I meant non contenders.

Tony1244 wrote:

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos and Wilder fought stumble bums for their first few years.

now, that is just stunningly stupid.

Please explain, my man. By stumblebum I meant non contenders.

i followed their careers from their very
early fights. nobody ever claimed that
either k - especially wladimir - ducked
anyone at any point in time.

wlad fought barret, byrd, botha, mercer
and jamel mccline before his loss to
sanders. after this defeat he climbed
out of the dungeon and fought everyone
for a decade who was willing to show up.

vitali fought herbie hide for the title 2.5
years after turning pro. he went on to
face lennox lewis on short notice and
returned to the ring after being out for
four years due to injury to face samuel
peter (who was 30/1 at that time) with
no tune up to gain the WBC title.

man wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

man wrote: now, that is just stunningly stupid.

Please explain, my man. By stumblebum I meant non contenders.

i followed their careers from their very
early fights. nobody ever claimed that
either k - especially wladimir - ducked
anyone at any point in time.

wlad fought barret, byrd, botha, mercer
and jamel mccline before his loss to
sanders. after this defeat he climbed
out of the dungeon and fought everyone
for a decade who was willing to show up.

vitali fought herbie hide for the title 2.5
years after turning pro. he went on to
face lennox lewis on short notice and
returned to the ring after being out for
four years due to injury to face samuel
peter (who was 30/1 at that time) with
no tune up to gain the WBC title.

The Klitschkos fought marginally better opponents than Wilder in their first 2-3 years. But they should have, better amateur pedigree as I said.



Virtually every prospect ducks somebody in the first few years so I find the claim dubious that "nobody ever claimed that
either k - especially wladimir - ducked anyone at any point in time. "

So I'll insert mostly before the word stumblebums.

Tony1244 wrote:The Klitschkos fought marginally better opponents than Wilder in their first 2-3 years. But they should have, better amateur pedigree as I said.

Virtually every prospect ducks somebody in the first few years so I find the claim dubious that "nobody ever claimed that
either k - especially wladimir - ducked anyone at any point in time. "

So I'll insert mostly before the word stumblebums.

who cares for the first two years
in a fighters life? is this what you
are talking about? if so, why even
mention it if not for somehow
excusing wilder's obviously terrible
record.

but know what? here is another fact.
both ks and wilder fought not-great
boxers in their very first fights. so
here we are, what's the big difference?

i do understand why boxers do what
wilder does, i do not understand how
people, who do not profit from it, can
defend it.