BoxRec

thechump wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

thechump wrote: Saad didnt know you were taking the piss lol,evander also beat valuev but got ripped off

Not sure what "taking the piss" means. I'm an old American white guy. But Evander did get ripped off against Valuev. I remember that better than the horrendous Ruiz fights.

Being funny as in not meaning what he is saying lol

I meant it. I just assumed that everyone would know that I knew the official result. Especially in the context of the post I quoted. No worries.

I certainly don't know what other people know or don't know.
I've had brain farts where I forget something temporarily.
I was hoping this was the case as I was never a fan of Ruiz along with the rest of the planet.
Holy landed a 2 punch illegal/legal combo. Have no idea which shot hurt Ruiz but I'm inclined not to give the quiet man the benefit of the doubt.

I remember Boxing News having it 115-114 to Holy in the rematch. Sjy were very generous to Lewis and made it sound like a masterclass.

Second fight was a pick-em, so no robberies, just a difference of opinion. Lewis deffo got the benefit of the first fight sympathy though. Was always gonna win close rounds.

Tony1244 wrote:I certainly don't know what other people know or don't know.
I've had brain farts where I forget something temporarily.
I was hoping this was the case as I was never a fan of Ruiz along with the rest of the planet.
Holy landed a 2 punch illegal/legal combo. Have no idea which shot hurt Ruiz but I'm inclined not to give the quiet man the benefit of the doubt.

I know everything, hopefully that will help you not get confused in the future.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:I certainly don't know what other people know or don't know.
I've had brain farts where I forget something temporarily.
I was hoping this was the case as I was never a fan of Ruiz along with the rest of the planet.
Holy landed a 2 punch illegal/legal combo. Have no idea which shot hurt Ruiz but I'm inclined not to give the quiet man the benefit of the doubt.

I know everything, hopefully that will help you not get confused in the future.

Ok, what is the result of Joshua-Takam?

Tony1244 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:I certainly don't know what other people know or don't know.
I've had brain farts where I forget something temporarily.
I was hoping this was the case as I was never a fan of Ruiz along with the rest of the planet.
Holy landed a 2 punch illegal/legal combo. Have no idea which shot hurt Ruiz but I'm inclined not to give the quiet man the benefit of the doubt.

I know everything, hopefully that will help you not get confused in the future.

Ok, what is the result of Joshua-Takam?

Firmly in the Lewis won both fights camp. He won the first so clearly that he went into the second a massive, massive favourite and because the fight was closer I think people tend to end up giving the underdog a bit more credit. But Holyfield lost, of that I was and am certain.

It's a little like the third Pacquaio Marquez fight. Marquez had been fairly average in the build up, Pacquaio was thrashing the likes of Cotto, Margarito and Mosley without issue, yet the fight was very close. I still think Pacquaio won it, but in a fight which he was meant to dominate a lot of people shouted robbery.

Regarding Holyfield Valuev there was an interesting piece from Ron Lewis at the time about that fight. He was ringside and confirmed there was no real issue with the result; fight was a bit of a stinker, hard to call, both men landing precious little. American reporters at the venue had no real issue. It was only when he got back to Britain and saw that American TV covering the fight from the States had screamed robbery that he was made aware how 'everyone' felt about the fight.

holyfield barely threw punches in like 8 of the rounds against valuev. practically none in second half. you couldve gone either way close. i remember graham houston writing an article for his old site about how he didnt understand what the fuss was about. really respect grahams views and he got that one right.

All this debate is making me want to rewatch the fight for the first time after so many years. But I remember it being very dull - am I misremembering?

dirk2686 wrote:
It's a little like the third Pacquaio Marquez fight. Marquez had been fairly average in the build up, Pacquaio was thrashing the likes of Cotto, Margarito and Mosley without issue, yet the fight was very close. I still think Pacquaio won it, but in a fight which he was meant to dominate a lot of people shouted robbery.

I don't remember anyone whose opinion I take seriously thinking Pacquiao won that, I could be wrong though

Marquez won the third fight as clearly as Lewis won the first holyfield fight. Horrific analogy.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Marquez won the third fight as clearly as Lewis won the first holyfield fight. Horrific analogy.

Just giving it another look to remind myself, Marquez two up after 6

Counter-puncher wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:
It's a little like the third Pacquaio Marquez fight. Marquez had been fairly average in the build up, Pacquaio was thrashing the likes of Cotto, Margarito and Mosley without issue, yet the fight was very close. I still think Pacquaio won it, but in a fight which he was meant to dominate a lot of people shouted robbery.

I don't remember anyone whose opinion I take seriously thinking Pacquiao won that, I could be wrong though

I don't know where my opinion ranks to you, but I had Marquez beating Pac in the 3rd fight. 115-113 for Marquez as I recall.

I had Pac winning the first 2 fights by 1 point, and then of course we all know what happened with the 4th fight. So they're 2-2 in my book.

gilgamesh wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

dirk2686 wrote:
It's a little like the third Pacquaio Marquez fight. Marquez had been fairly average in the build up, Pacquaio was thrashing the likes of Cotto, Margarito and Mosley without issue, yet the fight was very close. I still think Pacquaio won it, but in a fight which he was meant to dominate a lot of people shouted robbery.

I don't remember anyone whose opinion I take seriously thinking Pacquiao won that, I could be wrong though

I don't know where my opinion ranks to you.

I take it seriously, mostly



You have a couple of strange hobby horses but we all have them pretty much

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Marquez won the third fight as clearly as Lewis won the first holyfield fight. Horrific analogy.

Now that is a horrific comparison.

Giving Manny five rounds is pretty generous in that fight, never mind 7.

really? i had it 7-5 marquez and not so sure why thats generous. deffo not as one-sided as lewis-holy 1.

wide wide range of scores here and split for both men:

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Manny ... d_meeting)

"Among the unofficial scorers above, 57 scored the bout for Marquez, 51 scored the bout for Pacquiao, and the remaining 36 scored the bout a draw." pretty sure this is split among ppl who watched in different ways

I didn't remember that many people getting it wrong

Stuarty30 wrote:Does anyone have a vivid recollection of this fight? I watched it live and thought Lewis had won and he obviously got the nod this time around. It's not a fight I've ever watched back. I recently heard an interview with Holyfield and he was adamant he won the fight and the interviewer seemed to more or less agree?

I'll get round to watching it again sometime but was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

Closer but frustrating win for Lewis.

Lewis was so much bigger & stronger than Lewis, but he fought with extreme caution, which surprised me because I thought he might have socked it to Holyfield having been wilfully robbed in the first fight, but he never did.

To be fair, Holyfield upped his game for the rematch & was still a fairly formidable force then, although one could argue the opposite as less than a year later, he went life & death with Huggy Bear aka John Ruiz.

Counter-puncher wrote:I didn't remember that many people getting it wrong

do you think maybe such a split, from ppl who watched in different ways, with respectable scorers having it differently, suggests it may not have been some dominant jmm win? i mean to saying giving manny 5 rounds is generous is definitely not true. marquez won for me but some really exaggerating the margin.

jamamb wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:I didn't remember that many people getting it wrong

do you think maybe such a split, from ppl who watched in different ways, with respectable scorers having it differently, suggests it may not have been some dominant jmm win?.

I can't really explain other people's folly other than to say it's folly, I'm normally much more of a '5 clear rounds one way 4 clear rounds the other way with 3 swing rounds so 115-113 or 113-115 or in between is fine by me' sort of bloke but this is one I simply think people got wrong. My guess is a lot of people expected Manny to win easily, and in a close tactical fight without too much happening, they scored rounds to Manny as a default or simply a lack of discernment over what they were watching. Same goes
For the judges.

I mean, sometimes large numbers of people just get shit wrong. It happens.

'ppl expected manny to win easily' i think that can go the other way though. with ppl being thinking marquez far exeeding expectations and thus being generous to him. so i guess you think gilgamesh lacks discernment?

Counter-puncher wrote:I mean, sometimes large numbers of people just get poo wrong. It happens.

true although i mean sometimes counterpunchers get things wrong to.

there. now your point is cancelled

jamamb wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:I mean, sometimes large numbers of people just get poo wrong. It happens.

true although i mean sometimes counterpunchers get things wrong to.

there. now your point is cancelled

I definitely get things wrong

Just not this one