BoxRec

Overrated = Mike Tyson; no fighting heart & little stamina. Didn't have a plan 'B' when under pressure. The ultimate heavyweight bully.

Underrated = Gary Mason; former British champ. Was very tough & had a great big heart, but was unfortunate to be around at the same time as Lewis. The 2 of them had a tremendous battle, that Lewis eventually won.

Syntax Error wrote:Underrated = Gary Mason; former British champ. Was very tough & had a great big heart, but was unfortunate to be around at the same time as Lewis. The 2 of them had a tremendous battle, that Lewis eventually won.

Yes, I've always had a soft spot for big Gary Mason. He showed a lot of heart in his fight against the young Lennox Lewis.

stujones wrote:Ingemar Johannson

Stu, who over rates Johansson? I would bet most people have him in the 15-25 range on their "lists". I don't think that is too much.

He knocked out undefeated Eddie Machen in 1 round, Eddie took Patterson and Liston to the decision.

He also became heavyweight champ knocking Patterson down 7 times.

You might say, well he got knocked to all hell in the rematches... But you know, Patterson really was one of the best heavyweights of all time, he just had a couple of short comings. It was no shame to lose to Patterson.

Under: Charles, Walcott

The public were still in love with Louis and those two never got their full credit.

I'd say the same for Schmeling and Sharkey too. Theye were both good fighters. Then there's Tunney who nobody seems to mention at all these days

Over: Well recently retired/active fighters always get overrated but Tyson is surely the most overrated fighter in the history of the sport. He was devestating for a period but his fans never seem to want to accept his shortcomings.

I second that Tommy Burns was/is a VERY underated heavyweight champion.

He racked up a slew of successful defenses, could crack with either hand, had courage in abundance and would not quit.

He was also one hell of a business man!

ALso Jess WIllard does not get the credit he deserves. SOme seem to be under the impression he never beat any contenders to deserve his title shot with Jack Johnson, which is totally false.

And on top of that they say his fight with Johnson was a fix, which again is false.

So Willard's total career seems in large part to be dismissed. I have found Willard to be a giant for his day who could bang as hard as any one, and had a jab most could not get in on. He also could take a frightfull amount of punishment, and had stamina like a marothan runner (very interesting seeing how he was sooo big. But they trained like that back then I guess).

Those that beat him did so by running from him and making sure to minimize exchanges. Easier said than done.

hey guys im new to the forum and im only 17 but ive been a boxing phenatic since i have 13 so id like to think i have a pretty good idea of whats going on. i love the old boxers not a big fan of the new ones they dont fight the way they use too.. anyway here is my top 15 of all time feel free to disagree or agree...

1) Muhammed Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Joe Louis
4)Rocky Marciano
5)Jack Dempsey
6) Jack Johnson
7) Floyd Patterson
8)Ezzard Charles
9)Max Baer ( if only he trained and had his head on strait he coulda been the best ever)
10) Genne Tunney
11)Joe Frazier (whom i met personally)
12) Jersey Joe Walcott
13)Sam Langford
14)Mike Tyson ( as much as i hate it he was great)
15) Jim Braddock (dont destroy me too much on this, but what this guy had to overcome puts him up there, he beat Art Lasky, corn griffin,who did fall apart after this fight but at the time was a tough fight, Tuffy Griffith, John Henry Lewis, and dozens of others, he was a true underdog but he kept on beating the best that boxing had to offer at the time..and oh yeah there was this thing called the Great Depression that beat him down, but he kept boxing, and most of his loses came because of a broken right hand, how many boxers can fight with a broken right hand and win?... please discuss braddock, i think he was great.. does anyone know wherre i could find some film of his fights, especially the one vs Max Baer???

Rory McCloskey wrote:11)Joe Frazier (whom i met personally)

When was this? Did you have the chance to talk to him and ask him any questions?

..roryboy...film does exist of a lot of the rounds of the max baer fight....ditto for the joe louis one. as these were the onluy heavyweight title fights he took part in they may be the only ones that exist. i've been collecting film and now tapes for a long time...have no idea how you'd go about it now. espnc classics runs some...otherwise check the bins and rows of places like coconuts who still have videos and you might get lucky.
i'm not seeing any transferred to dvds yet....all i can say is maybe go on line...post your request..check out ebay...and just keep trying.

Rory McCloskey wrote:hey guys im new to the forum and im only 17 but ive been a boxing phenatic since i have 13 so id like to think i have a pretty good idea of whats going on. i love the old boxers not a big fan of the new ones they dont fight the way they use too.. anyway here is my top 15 of all time feel free to disagree or agree...

1) Muhammed Ali
2) Sonny Liston
3) Joe Louis
4)Rocky Marciano
5)Jack Dempsey
6) Jack Johnson
7) Floyd Patterson
8)Ezzard Charles
9)Max Baer ( if only he trained and had his head on strait he coulda been the best ever)
10) Genne Tunney
11)Joe Frazier (whom i met personally)
12) Jersey Joe Walcott
13)Sam Langford
14)Mike Tyson ( as much as i hate it he was great)
15) Jim Braddock (dont destroy me too much on this, but what this guy had to overcome puts him up there, he beat Art Lasky, corn griffin,who did fall apart after this fight but at the time was a tough fight, Tuffy Griffith, John Henry Lewis, and dozens of others, he was a true underdog but he kept on beating the best that boxing had to offer at the time..and oh yeah there was this thing called the Great Depression that beat him down, but he kept boxing, and most of his loses came because of a broken right hand, how many boxers can fight with a broken right hand and win?... please discuss braddock, i think he was great.. does anyone know wherre i could find some film of his fights, especially the one vs Max Baer???

YOu should not be worried so much about rating Braddock as you should be worried about getting heat for not putting Joe Louis AT LEAST second.

Louis was the supreme fighting machine. Reigned for over a decade straight, beaten only once in his prime and he avenged that leaving no doubt, and tallying the most successful title defences (25) in ANY WEIGHT CLASS.

He has beaten his share of Hall of Famers, and is in alot of peoples' minds the greatest heavyweight of all time.

No way in wholy hell was SOnny Liston better.

Michael Spinks is very underated.

Larry Holmes is underated.

Joe Frazier is underated.

Gerry Cooney is overated.

Lennox Lewis is overated.

Jack Johnson is underated.(lot's of people don't even know who he is much less seen any footage of him.)

I can't think of anymore right now.

Gerry Cooney is over rated

The year is not 1982 my friend. The Cooney hype train has derailed. Now most see Cooney as a joke (even the Simpsons TV show mocked him) and bring up his name when ever an over hyped heavyweight gets exposed.

I strongly disagree he is over rated.

Tommy Morrison, now that is one cat that is WAY over rated by some forum users here. You should read how they talk his career up. I guess I was watching some one else back then.

6 Pack wrote:Gerry Cooney is over rated

The year is not 1982 my friend. The Cooney hype train has derailed. Now most see Cooney as a joke (even the Simpsons TV show mocked him) and bring up his name when ever an over hyped heavyweight gets exposed.

I strongly disagree he is over rated.

Tommy Morrison, now that is one cat that is WAY over rated by some forum users here. You should read how they talk his career up. I guess I was watching some one else back then.

I still say people overate Gerry Cooney because of how they say he was the hardest hitter of all time.

I agree grimm. Gerry Cooney is overated when people compare his punching power with other big guys like shavers, foreman, liston. and one user was argueing me that cooney and NORTON had more power than marciano.

Everyone was waiting for the next white hope to come along. When Joe Louis took over the boxing world, and then charles and walcott held it, people were wondering if a white guy will ever win it back. Thats where the rock came in and dominated his era and he has proven the only white heavyweight after louis era to dominate and have succeess. ingemar johanssen had a chance but patterson knocked his glory away. jerry quarry had a chance but fought his worst fight and los to jimmy ellis. and then daunae bobick was flattened in 58 seconds by norton. now comes cooney.

He was a big guy at 6'7 and showed early that he could bang with that left. he became a fan favorite cause he was a big white powerful puncher. his strong wins over past thier prime jimmy young and ron lyle were noted and then he nearly killed an aging dead ken norton. And then he fought HIS BEST against holmes and put up a galland preformance but was not good enough. then he drifted into knowhere istead of trying to win another title. people hyped up cooney vs holmes like cooney had a chance and was the guy to beat holmes. truth is cooney never had a chance, he was hyoed uop cause he was a big powerful white guy.

he never defgeatedt any contenders. lyle, young, and norton were all well past thier primes and other than those wins his best win was over FORMER CRUSIERWEIGHT CHAMP ST GORDON???? thats it. he is definetly overated cause he never beat any top contenders and didnt stay long enough to fight pinklon thomas, berbick, witherspoon, page and the rest. HE MAY HAVE HAD A PRETTY GOOD LEFT HOOK BUT HIS RIGHT HAND WAS USELESS. HE WAS A ONE ARM FIGHTER.

I think Liston is one of the most overrated heavyweights ever. He cleaned out one of the weakest heavyweight divisions of the 20th Century (a heavyweight division where an old, fat, washed up Archie Moore had still been a top contender) and then got exposed by Ali. It's not like Ali just beat him -- it wasn't even a contest. And don't give me that BS about "suspicious circumstances", Liston even tried cheating to beat Ali in their first fight, attacking him furiously while Ali's eyes were burned with chemicals, and he STILL couldn't hurt Ali. A known malicious cheater. A quitter.

I think Foreman is quite underrated. I can think of few heavyweights that I would not choose a young Foreman as a heavy favorite over. Young Foreman would KTFO of prime Tyson, Liston, Marciano, Holmes, Tunney, and just about everyone else. It took the ring genius and durability of Ali to put Foreman in his place, and Foreman still gave Ali holy hell.

I think Tunney is underrated as a fighter, but not as a heavyweight. I think a non-prime Dempsey knocked Tunney out, which is no shame, but as a heavyweight I think Tunney is top 20 at best. But I would put him at least in the top 20 pfp list, so I think he is one of the greatest fighters of all time just he was best before he moved up to heavyweight.

I think Lewis is underrated.

I have always suspected that the Ambling Alp was a bit underrated, like a couple of other guys said.

-Dapa

hes a really nice guy i met him about a year ago at my dads work im only 16..i arm wrestled him and talk to him about the ali fights...hes hard to understand, but his hands are MASSIVE they wrapped around mine easily

Rory McCloskey wrote:hes a really nice guy i met him about a year ago at my dads work im only 16..i arm wrestled him and talk to him about the ali fights...hes hard to understand, but his hands are MASSIVE they wrapped around mine easily

Who?

Dapaper wrote:

I think Foreman is quite underrated. I can think of few heavyweights that I would not choose a young Foreman as a heavy favorite over. Young Foreman would KTFO of prime Tyson, Liston, Marciano, Holmes, Tunney, and just about everyone else. It took the ring genius and durability of Ali to put Foreman in his place, and Foreman still gave Ali holy hell.

I think ur definetely overating foreman here and not understanding he didnt have good stamina and had trouble with boxers. I think holmes would have stopped foreman late because holmes has a good chin and heart to survive an early onslaught not to mention his jab will give foreman fits. foreman also was nearly Kaed and outslugged by Ron Lyle who isnt considered an all time great heavyweight not to mention dropping a decision in his prime to jimmy young. i also feel tyson had more power than foreman aand if he got inside he would have taken out george. and i feel marciano would have been able to elude foremans bombs and lands some vicios indise short hard punches of his own to slow and wear foreman down until he could pound foreman in the late rounds and knock out foreman. and liston and foreman is a toss up.

...until i read he was just 16 i thought roryboy was talking about carnera....really big hands and hard to understand...his english wasn't so hot.

Maybe he was talking about Foreman? I thought he was talking about Liston, but I hope not, ahahaha. :)

-Dapa

Grimm wrote:

Rory McCloskey wrote:hes a really nice guy i met him about a year ago at my dads work im only 16..i arm wrestled him and talk to him about the ali fights...hes hard to understand, but his hands are MASSIVE they wrapped around mine easily

Who?

I think he is talking about Joe Frazier.

No kidding he was talking about Frazier, he had just mentioned meeting Frazier in his previous post...

Tantum wrote:No kidding he was talking about Frazier, he had just mentioned meeting Frazier in his previous post...

I know, that's why I answered the question that was asked.

i shoulda clarrified that..but yeah anyway hes a great guy..a little hard to understand him but hes a funny guy..he autographed like 50 things for me..said he finally made peace with ali

Rory McCloskey wrote:i shoulda clarrified that..but yeah anyway hes a great guy..a little hard to understand him but hes a funny guy..he autographed like 50 things for me..said he finally made peace with ali

I am very glad to hear Frazier has made his peace with Ali.

KOJOE90 wrote:

Rory McCloskey wrote:i shoulda clarrified that..but yeah anyway hes a great guy..a little hard to understand him but hes a funny guy..he autographed like 50 things for me..said he finally made peace with ali

I am very glad to hear Frazier has made his peace with Ali.

I don't know...didn't Joe make a comment not long ago...something like, 'Take a look at him (Ali), now take a look at me...now tell me who won those fights'...something like that...I think there will always be a little animosity on Joe's part...some of the stuff Ali said before their last fight was really mean spirited...