BoxRec

Yeah, my mate used to work with him as a dustman on Lambeth Council.

The guy is a plastic gangster.

Having committed murder, armed robbery, robbery and ran security on one of the biggest funerals in the british isles ever i'd say thats quite far off the mark. I also doubt the late lenny mclean would have had courtney working alongside him if he was plastic.

Or perhaps my judgment is clouded by meeting the guy.

Yes, that's quite a CV really isn't it.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: I met Cass Pennant a few weeks back, not realising who he was, have to say, he seemed like a very nice bloke. He had that quiet placid look of someone who has been around violence and didn't feel the need to give it the large one. Didn't realise who he was until I looked him up, I knew I knew his name and face from somewhere.

I recall that name too from a book on football violence I read. I think it was 'Blades Business Crew' where he gets a mention. Strange books those... invariably written by a member of the firm in question, and are often nothing more than claiming how they "did everyone over" and essentially never lost a ruck... or if they did it was due to being outnumbered 50 to 1 or something daft. It seems some football hooligans are now more intent on seeing their firm's winning battles in books than in backstreets.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:As my old man told me years ago, 'it's always the guy who doesn't say a word who'll tear your head off.'

A lot of the toughest men I know, are quiet and always polite people, and they come in all shapes and sizes.

knockout wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:
I had heard that Julius Francis fought unlicensed when he was Amatuer, word got out and he got banned from that years ABA's. Can anyone comfirm this?

TRUE

Thanks.

Loftgroov wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: I met Cass Pennant a few weeks back, not realising who he was, have to say, he seemed like a very nice bloke. He had that quiet placid look of someone who has been around violence and didn't feel the need to give it the large one. Didn't realise who he was until I looked him up, I knew I knew his name and face from somewhere.

I recall that name too from a book on football violence I read. I think it was 'Blades Business Crew' where he gets a mention. Strange books those... invariably written by a member of the firm in question, and are often nothing more than claiming how they "did everyone over" and essentially never lost a ruck... or if they did it was due to being outnumbered 50 to 1 or something daft. It seems some football hooligans are now more intent on seeing their firm's winning battles in books than in backstreets.

He was an intercity firm bloke.

I'm not glorifying the kind of thing he was involved in, in fact I said to his face I thought Football Hooliganism was an anachronism (I didn't know who he was, thank god he was so mild mannered), I was just amazed that a guy with such a background could be so easy going.

Wales wrote:

Yeah, my mate used to work with him as a dustman on Lambeth Council.

The guy is a plastic gangster.

Having committed murder, armed robbery, robbery and ran security on one of the biggest funerals in the british isles ever i'd say thats quite far off the mark. I also doubt the late lenny mclean would have had courtney working alongside him if he was plastic.

Or perhaps my judgment is clouded by meeting the guy.

I live near him mate and know him a few of our mutual friends were even in his film "hell to pay" he isnt and never has been a fighter, Yes he would stab or whack with a knuckle duster your average joe in the street but thats fornicate all...

He can be funny and a laugh but he has had it right off with the gangster image and he knows it.

HH

he wasa pro boxer though right?? had about 3 or 4 fights??

Met him at a screening of his movie hell to pay.

Not sure if he boxed pro but i know he boxed...Dont get me wrong he can have a tear up but isnt nothing like what people think.

HH

Watched a program about him some years ago, documentry type of thing.
Very funny, but I don`t think it was supposed to be, he had his house looking like a castle from the outside, and had a bit of a do with a statue of him being the centre piece..only somebody stole it first.

He did come across as a plastic gangster though.
Very funny

Did his movie actually get released?? I know it went to Canne etc apparently, but then I heard it all fell through or something???

Can't say I've seen a copy at Blockbusters.

his film didnt, virgin were discouraged from backing his second book as it portrays a man who has made a bloody fine living from being a gangster, and i challenge anyone who says he's a plastic one to define how this is!!, so i'd imagine the same thing happened to his movie. I went to see it up north, not a bad film i suppose, would have been much better had there been funding behind it. julius Francis is in the film from a boxing point of view.

he has however done a few tv programmes, on of which was odne by either C4 or C5 and 2 days after they started filming he was arrested on quite a complicated charge which revolved around him and a bent copper and some other incident. basically courtney knew it was coming so had tape recordings of this bent copper and got off with the charge, he went to court ina court jesters outfit for the final day of the trial.

he was had by roger cook aswel but that backfired on cook, not sure if that was shown on TV, he also appeared on Trisha and im 99% sure that was never on the box.

Wales wrote: which was odne by either C4 or C5 and 2 days after they started filming he was arrested on quite a complicated charge which revolved around him and a bent copper and some other incident. basically courtney knew it was coming so had tape recordings of this bent copper and got off with the charge, he went to court ina court jesters outfit for the final day of the trial.

That was the one. brilliant

Wales wrote: and i challenge anyone who says he's a plastic one to define how this is!!,

I`ll try,
A plastic gangster I would imagine to be a turn to suggest a poor example of one, or even not one at all, just an imitation.
The little I`ve read on the various `gangsters` has showed they`ve done very well out of it.
Roy Shaw while not a celebrated `gangster` does seem to have a lot for what we know he did.
Where has a `gangster` like Dave Courtney doesn’t seem to be doing as well.

Frankie Fraser called him a grass in the mentioned program, this scared Dave Courtney because like he explained to the cameras Fraser has a lot of swing..but if Dave Courtney was also a `gangster` wouldn`t he have the same swing?

I hate all this post 'Lock Stock..' Gangster chic.

Loftgroov wrote:

Goz wrote:To be honest I can't really see the fascination with these low-life thugs like Mclean and Shaw.

This is a boxing site and this thread should have at the least had 'Off Topic' in the subject line, if not it should be on one of those 'true crime' sites, presuming they have those.

Sorry Lord Goz, I'll run everything past you first next time to check you agree with it.

Ok, you got the jist....

KOJOE90 wrote: I hate all this post 'Lock Stock..' Gangster chic.

Exactly...

this might be a silly question but does much unlicenced boxing happen these days.

is it like you see in the movies you tru up and fight a guy in a field until there is a winner or is it a bit more civilised than that.

mimmy123 wrote:this might be a silly question but does much unlicenced boxing happen these days.

Yes, there are some big shows in Essex I believe. I think Dominic Negus has fought on a few of them.

Maybe at the same venue they have the big darts shows on, not sure.

I nearly went to one in Glasgow the weekend I was up there for Scott Harrison vs The Pocket Rocket, but I got sidetracked with a kidney stone. Ouch!!!

knockout artist wrote:

Hardhitters11 wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote: Interesting, anymore information on this?

I had heard that Julius Francis fought unlicensed when he was Amatuer, word got out and he got banned from that years ABA's. Can anyone comfirm this?

I also hear that former British Heavyweigh Champion Hughroy 'Trevor' Currie had an unlicensed fight a few years ago.

My pals name was Wayne "The Duke" Gibson...

As for Dave Courtney he is an absolute plum....he drinks in my local sometimes and lives just up the road...he is a tiny little fella and although he knows alot of people he is nothing at all...

HH

Yeah, my mate used to work with him as a dustman on Lambeth Council.

The guy is a plastic gangster.

Loftgroov wrote:Isn't Bronson the "world press-ups champion" or something? (as I recall)

Bronson is a mad-man & an extremely strong sob. I've read he threw a wjhole refridgerator/feezer UP flights of stairs in prison.

Whether it's actually true or not, who knows?

Wales wrote:

Yeah, my mate used to work with him as a dustman on Lambeth Council.

The guy is a plastic gangster.

Having committed murder, armed robbery, robbery and ran security on one of the biggest funerals in the british isles ever i'd say thats quite far off the mark. I also doubt the late lenny mclean would have had courtney working alongside him if he was plastic.

Or perhaps my judgment is clouded by meeting the guy.

Dave Courtney is nothing. I can't believe so many people regard him in such high stakes in terms of the gangster world today. Gangsters do not behave like Dave Courtney does. Who has seen his behaviour in some of the gangster documentries? He's an idiot. Prick turned up to court in a clown suit once.

A friend of mine use to go to the un-licensed boxing shows. The man who use to organise/run the events frequently put Courtney in his place, and not letting him in the VIP sections.

I saw a documentary about Charles Bronson a few years back, in it he says he had 30 odd boxing matches and won them all, it then showed a clip of him beating up a curly haired bloke in an unlicensed fight.
Anyone have any more details?? How good was he as a boxer?? Who did He fight?? Did anyone give him a decent fight?? Or did he just demolish everyone he fought??

Punchy Joe wrote:I saw a documentary about Charles Bronson a few years back, in it he says he had 30 odd boxing matches and won them all, it then showed a clip of him beating up a curly haired bloke in an unlicensed fight.
Anyone have any more details?? How good was he as a boxer?? Who did He fight?? Did anyone give him a decent fight?? Or did he just demolish everyone he fought??

I heard he had about 3 unlicenced fights and that was it.

All these guys are hyped up into legends. There's NOTHING to stop these ppl cultivating their hard man status to total hyperbole, i.e. Lenny McLean saying he'd had 100s of fights never losing. Well, we know he lost the 1st Shaw fight, we know a light heavyweight amateur boxer knocked him out, we know Roy Shaw would've been battered by Ron Stander if RS hadn't had an injury to his midriff.

The most interesting self proclaimed warrior is the Belgian Dominique Vandenberg. What we do know is that he graduated from a gruelling freestyle Karate course, was in the Foreign Legion, became a mercenery, then went to Thailand in literal no holds barred battles. He was the knife fighting adviser for Di Caprio in Scorsese's GANGS OF NEW YORK, then appeared in a series of independent, military tinged martial arts films like PIT FIGHTER, THE HONORABLE (aka Doorman) & THE LAST SENTINEL, known for their bleak dramatic qualities which have strong autobiographical elements.

Really compelling actor, and his book IRON CIRCLE: THE TRUE LIFE STORY OF DOMINIQUIE VANDENBERG is very exciting. Much better than fat Cockneys. But obviously nothing can be verified of DV's fights, in which he admits to killing someone.

Interview on some TV show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc0A2i90Zjo

Trailers for cracking action films with a real emotional kick

http://www.figaropictures.com/films_pit ... player.htm

http://www.figaropictures.com/films_hon ... railer.htm

mimmy123 wrote:this might be a silly question but does much unlicenced boxing happen these days.

There's a show at Bullcroft working men's club coming up shortly, I might go along for a laugh.