BoxRec

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 14:13

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 13:16

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 12:58 For me it was a disappointing match, I expected more from Tom and he really fought in a cheating way with a lot of help from the referee in my opinion.

Can you expand on this? Getting butted isn't cheating, butting is cheating.

Well, the way of diving and staying on the ground for 5 minits hoping for a DQ even earlier isn't the way of fighting I appriciate. Also the bending over his opponent to waste as much time as possible and continually Senad Gashi who receives all the warnings from start till end seems odd to me. I also see that once again "Frank Michael Maass" is the referee, just like in 13! Of Tom Schwarz his other bouts. You can't call that a coïncidence any more can you? Also, Senad Gashi wasn't affected at all at the moment the fight got stopped and clearly got protected from start till end.
You can clearly see from start till end that the ref is focussed at Senad Gashi about how to give him penalties. He doesn't even look at Tom, not in any split of any second of any round.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:09

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 14:13

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 13:16
Can you expand on this? Getting butted isn't cheating, butting is cheating.

Well, the way of diving and staying on the ground for 5 minits hoping for a DQ even earlier isn't the way of fighting I appriciate. Also the bending over his opponent to waste as much time as possible and continually Senad Gashi who receives all the warnings from start till end seems odd to me. I also see that once again "Frank Michael Maass" is the referee, just like in 13! Of Tom Schwarz his other bouts. You can't call that a coïncidence any more can you? Also, Senad Gashi wasn't affected at all at the moment the fight got stopped and clearly got protected from start till end.
You can clearly see from start till end that the ref is focussed at Senad Gashi about how to give him penalties. He doesn't even look at Tom, not in any split of any second of any round.

I think he played up the initial headbutt, but that doesn't make the butt any less illegal. It is not illegal to milk a foul, it is illegal to foul. It makes absolutely no difference if a foul isn't hard enough to cause injury, it is still a foul. There were at least three headbutts thrown by Gashi, who then started a post fight brawl. Schwarz isn't to blame for anything and I'm amazed at some of the comments here stating otherwise.

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:35

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:09

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 14:13
Well, the way of diving and staying on the ground for 5 minits hoping for a DQ even earlier isn't the way of fighting I appriciate. Also the bending over his opponent to waste as much time as possible and continually Senad Gashi who receives all the warnings from start till end seems odd to me. I also see that once again "Frank Michael Maass" is the referee, just like in 13! Of Tom Schwarz his other bouts. You can't call that a coïncidence any more can you? Also, Senad Gashi wasn't affected at all at the moment the fight got stopped and clearly got protected from start till end.
You can clearly see from start till end that the ref is focussed at Senad Gashi about how to give him penalties. He doesn't even look at Tom, not in any split of any second of any round.

I think he played up the initial headbutt, but that doesn't make the butt any less illegal. It is not illegal to milk a foul, it is illegal to foul. It makes absolutely no difference if a foul isn't hard enough to cause injury, it is still a foul. There were at least three headbutts thrown by Gashi, who then started a post fight brawl. Schwarz isn't to blame for anything and I'm amazed at some of the comments here stating otherwise.

Well, I'm most surprised about the referee.
In Dominic Boesel ( http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/553831 ) and Tom Schwarz ( http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/655566 ) their fights are continually "Frank Michael Maass" or "Ingo Barrabas" involved, or they fight a bum.
Except for one of Dominic Boesel his fights and all of a sudden Dominic Boesel lost that one. Now I don't know the details, but to me this smells like corruption. But ok, who am I.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:40

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:09

AJKlitschfury wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 14:13
Well, the way of diving and staying on the ground for 5 minits hoping for a DQ even earlier isn't the way of fighting I appriciate. Also the bending over his opponent to waste as much time as possible and continually Senad Gashi who receives all the warnings from start till end seems odd to me. I also see that once again "Frank Michael Maass" is the referee, just like in 13! Of Tom Schwarz his other bouts. You can't call that a coïncidence any more can you? Also, Senad Gashi wasn't affected at all at the moment the fight got stopped and clearly got protected from start till end.
You can clearly see from start till end that the ref is focussed at Senad Gashi about how to give him penalties. He doesn't even look at Tom, not in any split of any second of any round.

I think he played up the initial headbutt, but that doesn't make the butt any less illegal. It is not illegal to milk a foul, it is illegal to foul. It makes absolutely no difference if a foul isn't hard enough to cause injury, it is still a foul. There were at least three headbutts thrown by Gashi, who then started a post fight brawl. Schwarz isn't to blame for anything and I'm amazed at some of the comments here stating otherwise.

To a certain degree, you are right. A headbutt is still a headbutt, and deserved the appropriate treatment. That being said, to say that Schwartz has no blame is completely wide of the mark. The persistent illegal holding was detrimental to the fight and his oppositions strategy. From the very first bell they clearly went to keep his opponent at distance, and was prepared to break the rules when that was under any threat.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:57

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:40

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:09

I think he played up the initial headbutt, but that doesn't make the butt any less illegal. It is not illegal to milk a foul, it is illegal to foul. It makes absolutely no difference if a foul isn't hard enough to cause injury, it is still a foul. There were at least three headbutts thrown by Gashi, who then started a post fight brawl. Schwarz isn't to blame for anything and I'm amazed at some of the comments here stating otherwise.

To a certain degree, you are right. A headbutt is still a headbutt, and deserved the appropriate treatment. That being said, to say that Schwartz has no blame is completely wide of the mark. The persistent illegal holding was detrimental to the fight and his oppositions strategy. From the very first bell they clearly went to keep his opponent at distance, and was prepared to break the rules when that was under any threat.

Schwarz absolutely has no blame. He had a game plan to fight from the outside and when his opponent moved in he clinched. Clinching is part of boxing, and to my knowledge is not illegal unless it is excessive which is at the discretion of the referee.

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 16:11

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:57

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:40

To a certain degree, you are right. A headbutt is still a headbutt, and deserved the appropriate treatment. That being said, to say that Schwartz has no blame is completely wide of the mark. The persistent illegal holding was detrimental to the fight and his oppositions strategy. From the very first bell they clearly went to keep his opponent at distance, and was prepared to break the rules when that was under any threat.

Schwarz absolutely has no blame. He had a game plan to fight from the outside and when his opponent moved in he clinched. Clinching is part of boxing, and to my knowledge is not illegal unless it is excessive which is at the discretion of the referee.

I think this is the problem. The referee's interpretation. I don't know where everyone else stands on this, but I believe that Schwartz broke the rules, and excessively clinched to nullify his oppositions strategy. Clinching is not boxing, and is a ploy generally adopted by the taller fighter trying to nullify the shorter opponents chances of getting close enough to fight.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 16:28

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 16:11

punchoutsb wrote: ↑22 Apr 2018, 15:57

Schwarz absolutely has no blame. He had a game plan to fight from the outside and when his opponent moved in he clinched. Clinching is part of boxing, and to my knowledge is not illegal unless it is excessive which is at the discretion of the referee.

I think this is the problem. The referee's interpretation. I don't know where everyone else stands on this, but I believe that Schwartz broke the rules, and excessively clinched to nullify his oppositions strategy. Clinching is not boxing, and is a ploy generally adopted by the taller fighter trying to nullify the shorter opponents chances of getting close enough to fight.

There is no clear interpretation of where clinching becomes excessive. I don't want to sit through the fight again, but as I recall almost every clinch Schwarz initiated was when he was trapped in a corner. Any chance for a warning for holding was done away with since Gashi hit behind the head while in the clinch which obviously caught the referees eye more. Headbutting and rabbit punching will always get called over holding since they are black and white infractions. Holding is one of the most gray areas of boxing.

chinarich wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:51 Schwartz is awful, I can’t recall seeing a boxer milk a headbutt quite that much before. It was basically a tap and right before Schwarz pulls Gashi closer before lowering his own head so it looks to me as though he tried to provoke it...

Rob3_142 wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 13:09

chinarich wrote: ↑23 Apr 2018, 12:51 Schwartz is awful, I can’t recall seeing a boxer milk a headbutt quite that much before. It was basically a tap and right before Schwarz pulls Gashi closer before lowering his own head so it looks to me as though he tried to provoke it...

He was provoking retaliatory action all fight. I'm not sure how much I would have kept my composure in the same situation.