BoxRec

Strauss fought from 147 to 200.

Never was a heavyweight

Renaldo Snipes

Here's a good one for you. He was mentioned in the OPs very first post.

Leroy Caldwell.

Boxed 1969 to 1985. In the golden age of Heavyweight boxing.

Record 27-31-6. Now that's a journeyman's record for you!

Boxed the following:

Cleveland Williams
Ron Lyle
George Foreman
Jose Urtain
Joe Bugner
Earnie Shavers
Oscar Bonavena
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Gerrie Coetzee
John Tate.

Dec 20 1967. Paul Brown. Career record won 2 lost 11. Knocks out Joe Bugner in 3 rounds. Bugner's debut.

Sorry meant to post this under all time greats who lost to bad/obscure opponents.

Don't know how to move it!

What is the criteria for a 'journeyman'? Does it go: champion - contender - journeyman - bum?

I am asking because I always thought Jerry Quarry the definitive journeyman; but maybe he is considered more, i.e a contender.

APerno wrote: ↑08 Jun 2018, 21:39 What is the criteria for a 'journeyman'? Does it go: champion - contender - journeyman - bum?

I am asking because I always thought Jerry Quarry the definitive journeyman; but maybe he is considered more, i.e a contender.

Quarry was a contender for sure. He beat a lot of top opposition.

Journeymen are boxers, who help to build up records to the top competitors.

"Bum" is actually a disparaging term, I won't say, that it's a "grade" of boxers like "contender" or "journeyman". It's just a disparaging term describing a lower class competitor, I'd say.

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 04:05

APerno wrote: ↑08 Jun 2018, 21:39 What is the criteria for a 'journeyman'? Does it go: champion - contender - journeyman - bum?

I am asking because I always thought Jerry Quarry the definitive journeyman; but maybe he is considered more, i.e a contender.

Quarry was a contender for sure. He beat a lot of top opposition.

Journeymen are boxers, who help to build up records to the top competitors.

"Bum" is actually a disparaging term, I won't say, that it's a "grade" of boxers like "contender" or "journeyman". It's just a disparaging term describing a lower class competitor, I'd say.

I agree, I actually (try) never use the word bum as pertained to any individual fighter, I was just playing with the words. If I want to sneak in an insult to an individual fighter I use the old 19th Century phrase "ham and egger."

OK I with you, Quarry was more than a journeyman, "he was a contender."

Here is the thing though, I always call those guys you described as journeymen, "opponents" OR is an "opponent" stuck somewhere above bum and below Journeyman?

I guess I don't have a favorite journeyman; maybe Jesse Ferguson for refusing to lay down for Mercer. Quarry was always my favorite non-champion. I thought he was 'old school.'

of the current crop, I have huge respect for

Jamal Woods - fights very regularly in the states always fights hard and has a load of 'surprise' wins and draws against the odds. He rarely gets ko'd in big fashion.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/2230

in the late 70's early 80's

Leroy Boone put together a decent journeyman record, the list of huge hitters who couldn't dent him is impressive.

he will be mostly remembered in the uk for denting the hopes of aging british champ Neville Meade who was expected to make a late surge for international glory following his thwacking of Gordon Ferris.

APerno wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:07 Here is the thing though, I always call those guys you described as journeymen, "opponents" OR is an "opponent" stuck somewhere above bum and below Journeyman?

It can be another synonym of "journeyman". Actually I believe, there is no need for classification below journeymen. What for? Those fighters are all about the same usually. Of course, some journeymen may be more tough (like Bert Cooper), some less (some with more losses than wins, for example), but still their predestination doesn't change.

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 14:04

APerno wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:07 Here is the thing though, I always call those guys you described as journeymen, "opponents" OR is an "opponent" stuck somewhere above bum and below Journeyman?

It can be another synonym of "journeyman". Actually I believe, there is no need for classification below journeymen. What for? Those fighters are all about the same usually. Of course, some journeymen may be more tough (like Bert Cooper), some less (some with more losses than wins, for example), but still their predestination doesn't change.

I respect your value, that calling a fighter a bum is wrong; I agree wholeheartedly with that, but there are some fighters who never commit to the game the way a journeyman does. There are still local 'barn stormers' who pick up fights here and there.

I guess longevity needs to be part of a journeyman's resume.

APerno wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 14:27

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 14:04

APerno wrote: ↑09 Jun 2018, 09:07 Here is the thing though, I always call those guys you described as journeymen, "opponents" OR is an "opponent" stuck somewhere above bum and below Journeyman?

It can be another synonym of "journeyman". Actually I believe, there is no need for classification below journeymen. What for? Those fighters are all about the same usually. Of course, some journeymen may be more tough (like Bert Cooper), some less (some with more losses than wins, for example), but still their predestination doesn't change.

I respect your value, that calling a fighter a bum is wrong; I agree wholeheartedly with that, but there are some fighters who never commit to the game the way a journeyman does. There are still local 'barn stormers' who pick up fights here and there.

I guess longevity needs to be part of a journeyman's resume.

I still see such situation fittable to what I said before, so I would also name such guys journeymen. Just lower class journeymen. Or even the lowest. They can be the build up for solid journeymen. Without such boxers journeymen with relatively big names will just have loss after loss in a process of fighing only top guys.

"The Boogie Man" Jesse Ferguson, "Smokin" Bert Cooper and Jose Ribalta are three of my favorite journeymen and fought great resume in their careers.

Hey anyone know the name of a (white) HW, (maybe out of new England) who went undefeated, but never fought ANYONE of note. The guy has the rare distinction of retiring undefeated (with 25+ fights) but no one remembers his name (including me).

APerno wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 17:56 Hey anyone know the name of a (white) HW, (maybe out of new England) who went undefeated, but never fought ANYONE of note. The guy has the rare distinction of retiring undefeated (with 25+ fights) but no one remembers his name (including me).

Lee Canalito was white, but I think he was out of the South. He was "only" 21-0. Could it be him?

bwu wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 19:03

APerno wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 17:56 Hey anyone know the name of a (white) HW, (maybe out of new England) who went undefeated, but never fought ANYONE of note. The guy has the rare distinction of retiring undefeated (with 25+ fights) but no one remembers his name (including me).

Lee Canalito was white, but I think he was out of the South. He was "only" 21-0. Could it be him?

Yes, thank you, that's guy I was thinking about. How do we label this guy? Never a contender, but never merely anyone's opponent either. Not a journeyman, then what? A strange career, I wonder what he back story is.

APerno wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 19:16

bwu wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 19:03

APerno wrote: ↑10 Jun 2018, 17:56 Hey anyone know the name of a (white) HW, (maybe out of new England) who went undefeated, but never fought ANYONE of note. The guy has the rare distinction of retiring undefeated (with 25+ fights) but no one remembers his name (including me).

Lee Canalito was white, but I think he was out of the South. He was "only" 21-0. Could it be him?

Yes, thank you, that's guy I was thinking about. How do we label this guy? Never a contender, but never merely anyone's opponent either. Not a journeyman, then what? A strange career, I wonder what he back story is.

Good question. I suppose he's the man with no label. He was in the movie "Paradise Alley" with Sylvester Stallone, who I believe was Canalito's manager for a time. They even nicknamed him the Italian Stallion. I think Angelo Dundee was his trainer, too.

Boone Kirkman

Duran1970 wrote: ↑28 May 2018, 20:20 Never was a heavyweight

According to the Mouse he did. Mind you his record is incomplete. He fought 200-300 times. BoxRec doesn't have a complete record on him.

Trying to sell himself on Letterman and hype himself...never was a heavyweight no matter what he says....where's the proof? I can say I fought at heavyweight too... without documentation it's all bullshit

You don't understand the era prior to the Muhammad Ali Act, especially in the South and Plains regions of America. Many fighters had more fights than their records show. I remember interviewing Jerry Wimpy Halstead and he said that there's 2-3 fights missing on BoxRec.

With guys like Strauss, Strickland, Hines, Pendelton, etc they oftentimes fought under aliases multiple times and it's never been tracked down to this day just how many fights they really had.

I've seen alot of sketchy things happen. I won't name names but on pro shows in the Texarkana area, the pros oftentimes wore size 12, 14, even 16oz gloves instead of the mandatory 8 or 10oz. This essentially robbed guys of kayos, therefore nobody could get decommissioned, so they could fight again the next week.

Using different names and putting weights in your pockets in States with no commission hardly can justify " Bruce Strauss fought as a heavyweight".
I don't dispute what you said in your last post but I do respect this site's research and as a boxing historian as well I can only go by documented proof...
I believe things I see....not what I hear.

Way back in the 50's the fights were on TV 3 times a week and two of my favorites who never
got a title shot were Nino Valdez & Mike DeJohn. They had some good victories but every time
the fought a top contender they fell short. Maybe they were not considered journeymen however
as I believe at one time or another both boxers were in the heavyweight divisions top 10.

James Tillis
Adilson Rodriguez
Mike Jameson