BoxRec

jpspice wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 22:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 04:14 Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

Hearns called the round. No way he beats that Tommy in 100 fights. I think Duran is top 10 all time, top 3 lightweight and at least top 30 or 35 at welter(where I believe his peak was).

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 19:44

jpspice wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 22:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 04:14 Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

Hearns called the round. No way he beats that Tommy in 100 fights. I think Duran is top 10 all time, top 3 lightweight and at least top 30 or 35 at welter(where I believe his peak was).

Tommy way too big and long and powerful for Duran. Styles...

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 20:57

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 19:44

jpspice wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 22:08

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

Hearns called the round. No way he beats that Tommy in 100 fights. I think Duran is top 10 all time, top 3 lightweight and at least top 30 or 35 at welter(where I believe his peak was).

Tommy way too big and long and powerful for Duran. Styles...

At 154lbs, Hearns vs Duran wasn't a fair fight. It would have been a better fight at Welterweight.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 09:47

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 20:57

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 19:44

Hearns called the round. No way he beats that Tommy in 100 fights. I think Duran is top 10 all time, top 3 lightweight and at least top 30 or 35 at welter(where I believe his peak was).

Tommy way too big and long and powerful for Duran. Styles...

At 154lbs, Hearns vs Duran wasn't a fair fight. It would have been a better fight at Welterweight.

Hearns-Duran result surprised the hell out of me at the time. I was telling anyone who would listen that Duran would work the body.

I watched it close circuit. Expected Tommy by decision.

Arguably Tommy's best win.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 10:58 Arguably Tommy's best win.

He was THE ONLY MAN to knocked out the great Roberto Duran. Everytime I see that KO, I laugh.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 11:12

Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 10:58 Arguably Tommy's best win.

He was THE ONLY MAN to knocked out the great Roberto Duran. Everytime I see that KO, I laugh.

Duran quit a couple times and when he got older he had these PPV sparring sessions, but you're right, no one ever did that to Roberto but Tommy.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 11:17

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 11:12

Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 10:58 Arguably Tommy's best win.

He was THE ONLY MAN to knocked out the great Roberto Duran. Everytime I see that KO, I laugh.

Duran quit a couple times and when he got older he had these PPV sparring sessions, but you're right, no one ever did that to Roberto but Tommy.

Duran had at the time over 85 fights without being stopped. Remarkable chin the Hands of Stone had.

Most impressive aspect of Duran's career was his being a world class fighter from 130 to 160 lbs.

Very true. And top 10 even at 168.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Dec 2018, 09:47

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 20:57

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Dec 2018, 19:44

Hearns called the round. No way he beats that Tommy in 100 fights. I think Duran is top 10 all time, top 3 lightweight and at least top 30 or 35 at welter(where I believe his peak was).

Tommy way too big and long and powerful for Duran. Styles...

At 154lbs, Hearns vs Duran wasn't a fair fight. It would have been a better fight at Welterweight.

Good point, there.

jpspice wrote: ↑11 Jun 2018, 22:08

DrDuke wrote: ↑07 Jun 2018, 04:14 Duran is a one of the all time greatest boxers for sure. He's the best lightweight ever. He went up and defeated prime Sugar Ray Leonard, no one else did it. He had some troublesome times after that, but he managed to overcome everything, he went up and crushed Davey Moore for another World championship. He went up and challenged the dominant force of the middleweights, another ATG boxer - Marvin Hagler. He lost there, but in a very close bout. After that he had troubles again, but still he was able to outbrawl big Iran Barkley for the middleweight championship at his late thirties. Most of his losses were after that, when he was clearly past prime. And every loss, except a single avenged one, were after he went up from his natural cathegory. This incredible resume tells everything for Roberto, he can't be overrated, he gets a well deserved credit.

I totally agree. Also, I think Duran underestimated Tommy and came to the fight physically unprepared. If he had gotten past Tommy's right hand for another round or two he likely would have been the one delivering the KO.

You honestly believe that?

I've often thought the outcome was a "one-off" fluke. And it happened during a low point in Duran's run.

No way to be sure, but he didn't seem to be putting any real effort in being elusive, since he had never been sparked, he probably thought it wasn't a credible possibility.

I really loved the recent movie, and it did so much to explain the timing between the two Ray fights, but it did not cover any of the other low points in his career. Nor many of the other high points save the Davy Moore event. Duran was a complex person.....and it was good to see some of that sorted and properly nuanced in the film.

BoxBuzz wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:11 I've often thought the outcome was a "one-off" fluke. And it happened during a low point in Duran's run.

No way to be sure, but he didn't seem to be putting any real effort in being elusive, since he had never been sparked, he probably thought it wasn't a credible possibility.

I really loved the recent movie, and it did so much to explain the timing between the two Ray fights, but it did not cover any of the other low points in his career. Nor many of the other high points save the Davy Moore event. Duran was a complex person.....and it was good to see some of that sorted and properly nuanced in the film.

Nice post Buzz! I remember thinking Duran looking a bit surprised when he was face to face with Tommy during pre-fight instructions. When the bell rang, his body language looked off too, like, "what the hell do I do with this guy." Maybe surprised at the actual size of Tommy. So I can believe some of the stories of his unpreparedness that's been bantered about at least to some extent. Now I have to go back and re-watch as that was many years ago.

At the weigh in Duran said I kill you!!! And Tommy replied you're going down in 2.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:24 At the weigh in Duran said I kill you!!! And Tommy replied you're going down in 2.

I'm re-watching now. Duran looks like he came in with no game plan. Too much smiling. Standing upright; not trying to slip punches. And a bit soft. I haven't watched it in years. And it was really troubling to watch.

When i boxed pro in the 90s one of my stablemates was a fella called Dave Radford, I can remember to this day our manager rushing into the gym looking for him but he hadn’t turned up because he had to work so he went to his house to wait for him, Dave eventually came home to find the manager there and offered him a fight in South Africa (we were in Yorkshire uk) and had to leave in 2 days time to get there for the fight, Dave asked who he was fighting and the reply of “Roberto Duran” was met with a shrug and “don’t know him” the manager replied “fornicate!n hell Dave you’ve got his best of video down there” Dave jumped straight up and ran upstairs to pack with the manager shouting after him “don’t you wanna know how much your getting?” Dave shouted back “not bothered I’ll do it for free if I have to”. Dave lost on points over 10 had a load of photos with him after and a few drinks, bloody priceless!

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:29

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:24 At the weigh in Duran said I kill you!!! And Tommy replied you're going down in 2.

I'm re-watching now. Duran looks like he came in with no game plan. Too much smiling. Standing upright; not trying to slip punches. And a bit soft. I haven't watched it in years. And it was really troubling to watch.

No game plan he could have had. Tommy was absolute peak.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:54

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:29

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 21:24 At the weigh in Duran said I kill you!!! And Tommy replied you're going down in 2.

I'm re-watching now. Duran looks like he came in with no game plan. Too much smiling. Standing upright; not trying to slip punches. And a bit soft. I haven't watched it in years. And it was really troubling to watch.

No game plan he could have had. Tommy was absolute peak.

It looked like Duran knew that.

Duran is all time top ten p4p. The no mas fight does affect his standing slightly as does the hearns destruction but he was probably the greatest lightweight ever and All those fights were post prime. He came off worse on the whole with the other greats in the 80s but his overall standing is slightly higher for me.

Reading this thread really makes me feel old! there must be a young crowd in if you are to question the greatness that is Roberto Duran. his career must be looked at in two halves, at light weight and when he fought above his optimum division. Let us remember that this man cleaned out a division and ruled it for seven years back when that really meant something. he fought a murderers row. It could be argued he was on the decline by the time he met Leonard the FIRST time, and physically he had no business being in the ring with the likes of hearns and hagler.

granted, he could switch off when faced with a mover but duran was truly something else. To hold latter defeats against him is awful and the actions of stat obsessive/casual fans. Duran is top ten, prob top five.

I think his absolute peak was palomino and Leonard.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jan 2019, 07:53 I think his absolute peak was palomino and Leonard.

Yes, indeed. The Hands of Stone got two periods: Before "No Mas" and after "No Mas". It's like the great Muhammad Ali, pre-exile and after exile periods.

To me, Duran is a top 5 pound per pound all time great. No doubt about that.

Whatever.