BoxRec

Benitez was excellent and is often underrated. But actually it was the big 5, not the big 4. There was no Benitez-Hagler, but, as it was mentioned, Benitez had competetive fights against the other three with capturing a one vicotory there.

A couple of things about Leonard / Benitez ...

I always liked the way that fight was promoted ... the young up-and-coming charismatic olympian (Leonard) taking on the grizzled old veteran (Benitez) who'd already been a world champion and title-belt holder for years ...

... (the only problem being that Leonard (at 23) was older than Benitez (21) ... 17 when he won his first title) ... ...

Also ... the greatest stare-down in boxing history ...

...

Roy Jones wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Just freak athleticism, and the moment that was gone his actual worth was on display.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:06 Roy Jones wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Just freak athleticism, and the moment that was gone his actual worth was on display.

Yeah .... I couldn't stand him ... loved watching him get KO'd ...

I remember watching one of is fights (at home) ... I think he won every round easy according to the announcers ... but I gave every round to his opponent based on Ring-Generalship alone because Jones was acting like such a dick ... (I knew that would never fly but I just couldn't help myself) ... ...

Sequitorian wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:18

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:06 Roy Jones wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Just freak athleticism, and the moment that was gone his actual worth was on display.

Yeah .... I couldn't stand him ... loved watching him get KO'd ...

I remember watching one of is fights (at home) ... I think he won every round easy according to the announcers ... but I gave every round to his opponent based on Ring-Generalship alone because Jones was acting like such a dick ... (I knew that would never fly but I just couldn't help myself) ... ...

Who was his opponent in that fight?

Abradolf Lincler wrote: ↑10 Jul 2018, 20:48 Benitez ain't top 50.

x2.

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:40

Sequitorian wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:18

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:06 Roy Jones wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Just freak athleticism, and the moment that was gone his actual worth was on display.

Yeah .... I couldn't stand him ... loved watching him get KO'd ...

I remember watching one of is fights (at home) ... I think he won every round easy according to the announcers ... but I gave every round to his opponent based on Ring-Generalship alone because Jones was acting like such a dick ... (I knew that would never fly but I just couldn't help myself) ... ...

Who was his opponent in that fight?

I can't remember but the guy had a classic stand-up style ... not "European" stand-up but more American ... more varied ... a brother, that much I remember ... very well-schooled ... had all the tools ... kept his composure and boxed beautifully ... a joy to watch ... but he kept getting out-quicked by Jones ... who acted the fool the whole fight ... that's all I can remember ...

Sequitorian wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 19:59

Boxing Writer wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:40

Sequitorian wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:18

Yeah .... I couldn't stand him ... loved watching him get KO'd ...

I remember watching one of is fights (at home) ... I think he won every round easy according to the announcers ... but I gave every round to his opponent based on Ring-Generalship alone because Jones was acting like such a dick ... (I knew that would never fly but I just couldn't help myself) ... ...

Who was his opponent in that fight?

I can't remember but the guy had a classic stand-up style ... not "European" stand-up but more American ... more varied ... a brother, that much I remember ... very well-schooled ... had all the tools ... kept his composure and boxed beautifully ... a joy to watch ... but he kept getting out-quicked by Jones ... who acted the fool the whole fight ... that's all I can remember ...

Mike McCallum?

No ... not that well-known ... I had no idea who he was at the time ...

Roy Jones was incredibly dominant up until 2003. I don't find arguments against his greatness persuasive. During his prime he was levels above anyone he fought.

Had Roy retired in 2003 I suspect he would be viewed very differently today. The losses later in his career seem to have changed people's perspectives.

Sequitorian wrote: ↑12 Jul 2018, 06:58 No ... not that well-known ... I had no idea who he was at the time ...

Lou Del Valle or David Telesco? Aside from Montell Griffin and Bernard Hopkins, his toughest fights, in my opinion, were against Lou Del Valle, where Roy was knocked down, and the fight against Eric Harding, though he eventually stopped Harding.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Jul 2018, 18:06 Roy Jones wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Just freak athleticism, and the moment that was gone his actual worth was on display.

hmm......................not so sure this one fits the "against the grain opinion" theme.
To me "against the grain" means you would be hard-pressed to find another boxing pundit that agrees with that opinion.
That's not at all the case with this one.
I'm not going to try to guess some percentage of pundits who agree with your opinion but you're not evenly remotely close to being an outlier on this one.
A lot of people feel like Jones was an exceptionally gifted athlete who happened be a boxer, not an exceptional boxer who was also a gifted athlete.

Must not be a very hard sport if all it takes is natural athleticism to dominate for a decade.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2018, 03:17 Had Roy retired in 2003 I suspect he would be viewed very differently today. The losses later in his career seem to have changed people's perspectives.

I remember broadcasters saying only God could beat Roy Jones back then.

Abradolf Lincler wrote: ↑13 Jul 2018, 08:48 Must not be a very hard sport if all it takes is natural athleticism to dominate for a decade.

Jones obviously a great fighter. My biggest problem with him is that he didn't fight. DM. He probably would have won; but it would have great to know for sure. It was really the only big light heavyweight fight out there for several years but never happened.

I'd liked to have seen Jones tool Dariusz. I could never warm to him after his showing in the first Rocky fight.

Greg Page would beat Larry Holmes if they fought in 1983.

Tony Ayala Jr. Would have lost to Davey Moore and Wilfred Benitez in title fights.

Carlos Monzon would have lost to.any of the title holders at light heavyweight during his reign.

Salvador Sanchez would lose to many of the lightweight and junior lightweights of his era.

A prime Joe Frazier beats prime George Foreman everytime.

An against the grain opinion? Okay...

I'm not at all a fan of time-machine fantasy fights. Many of these threads just name the fighters - "Jerry Quarry vs. Evander Holyfield." Which version of each fighter? The Quarry who fought Zanon vs. the fired up Holyfield who fought Tyson? Or the fired up Quarry who fought Mac Foster vs. the flat Holyfield who lost to Michael Moorer?

Even when specific time periods are named - "Holyfield of the Tyson fight vs. Quarry of the Thad Spencer fight." There are too many intangibles involved. Holyfield was prepared and motivated for TYSON. Quarry was prepared and motivated for SPENCER.

Yes, I've contributed to a few of these threads and can understand why people like them. But they're usually the last threads I read.

Now, I'm much more open to speculative threads about events that could have happened - "What if Tyson-Holyfield or Ali-Liston II had happened when they were originally scheduled?" Or "What if Michael Dokes had fought Tim Witherspoon instead of Gerrie Coetzee that night in September '83?" Those, I feel, we can dig into more because we have more relevant and accurate data available.

Time machine fights... other posters enjoy them, but they involve too much speculation and supposition for my taste.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 21:47 Greg Page would beat Larry Holmes if they fought in 1983.

Tony Ayala Jr. Would have lost to Davey Moore and Wilfred Benitez in title fights.

Carlos Monzon would have lost to.any of the title holders at light heavyweight during his reign.

Salvador Sanchez would lose to many of the lightweight and junior lightweights of his era.

A prime Joe Frazier beats prime George Foreman everytime.

These kinds of fantasy fights I'm okay with. They could have happened.

sweetsci wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018, 12:15

Nile4000 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 21:47 Greg Page would beat Larry Holmes if they fought in 1983.

Tony Ayala Jr. Would have lost to Davey Moore and Wilfred Benitez in title fights.

Carlos Monzon would have lost to.any of the title holders at light heavyweight during his reign.

Salvador Sanchez would lose to many of the lightweight and junior lightweights of his era.

A prime Joe Frazier beats prime George Foreman everytime.

These kinds of fantasy fights I'm okay with. They could have happened.

Indeed. That and a couple of other minor things, and boxing would be a better place.

BitPlayer wrote: ↑26 Jun 2018, 07:40 3. Bob Fitzsimmons is the greatest P4P all time Criminally underrated middleweight resume, beat opponents way bigger than him, beat the slickest fighters and hardest punchers of his time, beat George Gardner over 20 rounds while 40, injured and ill. Excellent defence, recognised as one of the smartest boxers by many including Kid McCoy and Gene Tunney.

4. John L Sullivan is underrated People focus nearly entirely on his career when he was way past it, he was at his best in the erly 1880's, and was starting to noticably decline by 1885, in 1887 he broke his arm, and by the time of his fights with Corbett and Kilrain he'd been near death due to drink more than once.

All true.

Leon Spinks could have been a force in the heavyweight division for five years if he had the right training and mindset.

Jimmy Young lost to Ken Norton and never would have held the belt for a long length of time if he won it.

If Floyd Patterson had stayed in the light heavyweight division, he would have been the greatest light heavyweight ever, outside of Ezzard Charles, and maybe Michael Spinks.