BoxRec

As a guy who smashed his way though anyone game enough to fight him. And a few weren't game enough and ducked him. He fought hard and was exciting to watch.

Yes Zhenia was and still is one of the most entertaining fighters in last years, there are few fighters in last 10 years that i followed as much as Golovkin.

pound per pound wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 16:39

ironbeard wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 12:40 GGG, even if he had been awarded both Canelo victories that I believe that he deserved, is not a top shelf MW historically. He is just below top shelf.

GGG has always been slow, vulnerable to the body, and less than excellent when pressured. He was just never faced with top level comp that could exploit that until Canelo. GGG fanboys can now point to his age as a rational for his less than stellar performances vs Jacobs and Canelo, but it really comes down to level of competition.

Many have claimed that he could have moved up and ruled 168. Clearly, given his performances over the last year and a half, he would be in deep water with the top level big pressure SMWs. He would have certainly ruled the journeymen at that level though.

It is still unfortunate that he did not get a W a year ago and at least a draw on Saturday. He deserved it and we would likely have seen him in another big fight to cement his legacy.

Now, it is likely that his level has been established as a very good but not great MW, historically; along the lines of Sergio Martinez, who fought similar level competition.

GGG was pretty fast handed in his prime. He's only slow now at age 36, I think he'll end up in the hall of fame, viewed better than Martinez. Many think he's still undefeated, and he broke Hopkins title record technically speaking as Bernard has a no contest in the streak that should not count.

I disagree. GGG never “was pretty fast handed.” I will say that he appears to have a more difficult time pulling the trigger now. Of course, the quality of opposition in the last two years has been much higher too.

Somewhat similarly to how we remember Dariusz Michalczewski, Sergey Kovalev, Kostya Tszyu, and Lucian Bute.

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 23:05 Somewhat similarly to how we remember Dariusz Michalczewski, Sergey Kovalev, Kostya Tszyu, and Lucian Bute.

pretty bizarre list, for example theres a huge difference between how a hall of famer like tszyu is regarded compared to bute. and even with the loss we still see ggg getting rated much higher then kov. you tried the demographic line but got sloppy bruh, you surely arent dumb enough to think kostya and bute are remembered in the same type of way

and ggg got waaay higher profile exposure in major boxing markets (usa and uk) then dariusz did, ggg will be remembered way more and more positively i guess. ggg also didnt take the repeated and sometimes embarassing losses like bute did. ggg was actually credible vs top flight mws whereas bute was spanked like a baby first time he tried it. and ggg never had an andrade 1 moment vs his b level opponents either

you wanna go wth other soviets my guess is that hell be generally regarder similar how to to maybe vitali or tszyu. so largely postve and hall of fame but not an absolute atg

major usa/uk exposure and popularity ,fun style and totally dominant vs b level and below, and still very competitive vs a level. 'past prme' excuse for loss. rated as a p4p level fighter for 5+ years and counting....at least so far never stopped and 'humbled' like kov and bute were. no loss to a julio gonzo level opponenr like dariusz had

at this rate i expect boxing media to vote ggg into the hall of fame eventually, (bute certainly wont get in) though well see what happens with the rest of his career , but hes been very popular with fans and media for a long time and that means somethng.

jamamb wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 07:41

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 23:05 Somewhat similarly to how we remember Dariusz Michalczewski, Sergey Kovalev, Kostya Tszyu, and Lucian Bute.

pretty bizarre list, for example theres a huge difference between how a hall of famer like tszyu is regarded compared to bute. and even with the loss we still see ggg getting rated much higher then kov. you tried the demographic line but got sloppy bruh, you surely arent dumb enough to think kostya and bute are remembered in the same type of way

and ggg got waaay higher profile exposure in major boxing markets (usa and uk) then dariusz did, ggg will be remembered way more and more positively i guess. ggg also didnt take the repeated and sometimes embarassing losses like bute did. ggg was actually credible vs top flight mws whereas bute was spanked like a baby first time he tried it. and ggg never had an andrade 1 moment vs his b level opponents either

Its true that Golovkin had bigger exposure to USA and UK markets but it actually means nothing outside of USA and UK. I like this comaparison because i think that Michalczewski and Golovkin are on around the same level of talent and achievements. And both had fantastic jab.

depends what group of ppl were talking about, in the biggest boxing markets i expect ggg to be remembered way more and more positively then dariusz, and i think ggg was a bigger global name in general. thats a big part of remembering someone

and suggestng that tszyu and bute are remembered n the same ways just stupid. so whens butes hall of fame entry happenng?

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 08:47

jamamb wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 07:41

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 23:05 Somewhat similarly to how we remember Dariusz Michalczewski, Sergey Kovalev, Kostya Tszyu, and Lucian Bute.

pretty bizarre list, for example theres a huge difference between how a hall of famer like tszyu is regarded compared to bute. and even with the loss we still see ggg getting rated much higher then kov. you tried the demographic line but got sloppy bruh, you surely arent dumb enough to think kostya and bute are remembered in the same type of way

and ggg got waaay higher profile exposure in major boxing markets (usa and uk) then dariusz did, ggg will be remembered way more and more positively i guess. ggg also didnt take the repeated and sometimes embarassing losses like bute did. ggg was actually credible vs top flight mws whereas bute was spanked like a baby first time he tried it. and ggg never had an andrade 1 moment vs his b level opponents either

Its true that Golovkin had bigger exposure to USA and UK markets but it actually means nothing outside of USA and UK.

And we all know that middleweights are nothing if they don't conquer... what, Japan?

squiggy wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 09:38

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 08:47

jamamb wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 07:41

pretty bizarre list, for example theres a huge difference between how a hall of famer like tszyu is regarded compared to bute. and even with the loss we still see ggg getting rated much higher then kov. you tried the demographic line but got sloppy bruh, you surely arent dumb enough to think kostya and bute are remembered in the same type of way

and ggg got waaay higher profile exposure in major boxing markets (usa and uk) then dariusz did, ggg will be remembered way more and more positively i guess. ggg also didnt take the repeated and sometimes embarassing losses like bute did. ggg was actually credible vs top flight mws whereas bute was spanked like a baby first time he tried it. and ggg never had an andrade 1 moment vs his b level opponents either

Its true that Golovkin had bigger exposure to USA and UK markets but it actually means nothing outside of USA and UK.

And we all know that middleweights are nothing if they don't conquer... what, Japan?

Don't forget Ghana. It is a must.

jamamb wrote: ↑21 Sep 2018, 08:51 and suggestng that tszyu and bute are remembered n the same ways just stupid. so whens butes hall of fame entry happenng?

Lucian Bute was a one division world champion with 10 title wins. Although he shared a division with Andre Ward, and a majority of boxing fans had Ward as #1, the second largest block of fans had Bute rated at #1. You probably don't remember what people were saying about Bute on boxrec back in 2011. He was basically the boogeyman with the rabid fan following who insisted that he was better than Ward. Kovalev was also like that, but in his case, his Ward was... also Ward. Golovkin was like that, but his Ward was Alvarez. Michalczewski was like that, but his Ward was RJJ (although they never fought). The current "Current Scene" climate has a lot of "RJJ #1 all-time" advocates; but 5-10 years ago, there were plenty of people in the Current Scene who conjectured that RJJ avoided Michalczewski, not the other way around. So that is one way in which Bute, Kovalev, Michalczewski, and Golovkin had very similar fan reactions when they were still fresh.

Kovalev, Golovkin, Bute, and Michalczewski are also similar in their lengthy title reigns over a single division in which they maintained an undefeated record before catching L's near the end. Tszyu's record was slightly different, in that he had one loss in the middle, but otherwise pretty similar.

They also all generally built their records on quantity over quality. They collectively some solid wins over Virgil Hill, Zab Judah, past-it JCC, and Danny Jacobs. But they aren't like some other current / future hall of famers who have wins over prime-ish Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Felix Trinidad, Manny Pacquiao, James Toney, Oscar De La Hoya, Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manuel Marquez, etc. I'm not listing the hall of famers, I'm listing the victims that were beaten by the hall of famers I have in mind. Those are ELITE scalps, which Golovkin, Kovalev, etc. don't have. Although, as far as quantity goes, Bute has only 10 title wins, and Kovalev has only 11.

They each do also have the same slavic-biased fanbase, and had roughly the exact same number of fans during their primes. 5+ years after their retirements have passed, they'll probably have similar numbers of fans supporting their hall of fame inductions.

Also, don't forget that Golovkin has not retired yet, and it's not too late for him to experience some harsh post-prime defeats like Tszyu, Michalczewki, and Bute have (and Kovalev has sort of approximated).

Vitali wasn't the model of an overhyped, undefeated champ racking-up many title wins against gatekeepers. He was almost like that, except he racked-up the mediocre title wins after he caught two losses. The respect Vitali carried was pretty well-justified; and he did not, in the end, get bested by the guy everyone was saying he would beat.

Golovkin, Bute, Tszyu, and Vitali were all world amateur medalists. Kovalev and Michalczewki were not.

So take the average of the four names I listed, and you should get a pretty good approximation of how Golovkin is remembered in hindsight. I'd say that, in all, Michalczewski best paralleled Golovkin's career, followed by Kovalev, followed then by Tszyu, Bute, and Vitali.

If this comparison isn't accurate, feel free to name other fighters who compiled dozens of low-quality world title defenses in a single division while maintaining an undefeated record, being hyped the whole time as the division's boogeyman, ranked in the top 5 p4p for a few years, no elite wins, eventually loses near the end of his career, and bonus points if he eventually loses to the guy he was supposed to beat. There's Chris John, maybe, not really, plus he actually had an elite scalp.

kostya was voted into the international boxing hall of fame almost as soon as he was eligible, he is regarded way higher then a guy like bute is, and his ko of judah to become 3 belt champ still gets lots of play today. to lump them together as being regarded and remembered the same is just stupid. butes biggest most memorable moment was getting utterly destroyed

gggs been a bigger name and more popular then all those guys. and he didnt get smashed by his first top opponent like bute did, and he didnt get humbled in the same fashion kov did, and hes still very highly rated and very high on most p4p lists even at almost 37, unlike bute, kov, and dariusz

you go on about records, but how fans and media remember guys is basically just what they think of those guys,. ggg has been very popular with media and fans, hyped, and rated very high and even now is, with loads of ppl excusing the loss and saying he deserved the win. check out the media cards btw, pretty much none had ggg losing

a guy like bute was already getting lol'd at this stage. and him and kov were both smashed in ways ggg hasnt come close to suffering even at an older age then them

The 'hype' on Bute was only ever "he actually might be the best guy in the division -- wish some of the Super Six guys would fight him so we could know for sure." Then Froch fought him and we did know for sure.
It's a disingenuous comparison to GGG.

ya, and froch mauled him in a way nothing close to anything thats happened to ggg. you see bute and thats the first fight to come to mind. thats like his identity now.

bute never got the sustained , hes p4p, hes an atg hype and popularity that gggs gotten, and after butes loss he was rated much much lower then ggg is now

gggs respect hasnt suddenly gone out the window. hes still rated very highly and at almost 37 he fought much much better then bute did in his big fight. most media thought he did enough to retain his titles, even being on the older side.

this wasnt a prime bute getting mauled in his first step up

Exposure to USA and UK market means nothing. All of Dariusz fights was viewed in Poland by more than 1.000.000 people, even more in Germany

Ironic isn’t it, golovkin knocked bute spark out in the amateurs

If you know anything about Boxing then you will agree that 30 years from now when you list out the greatest MW’s in history and how they stack up against whatever young talent that they are touting at the time, GGG will be one of the few names that you will reference

It’s only fair.. he’s still undefeated in my book

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 14:23

RScarf1 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 12:49 How will we remember Canelo’s career after he loses to Charlo or Jacobs?

He will not. He has enough to last 12 rounds, and that all it takes for him to win.

My thinking was that Canelo would be outboxed to such a degree that the judges would have to make the right call even if the scores were close for no legitimate reason. You may be right though. He may just have to go the distance.